Use "Character Cards" to avoid getting counterpicked in game 1 of a set

[infomon]

Here's a little video to explain a small problem that I've seen with the way that we pick our characters in tournament, and a suggestion to fix it.

When you're choosing your character for the first game of a tournament set, it's supposed to be a blind pick. But some people will deliberateiy wait for you to pick first, so that they can counterpick against you! Grimey!!! I've seen this happen several times.

The Smash Ruleset describes a "(double) blind character selection" where you call over a referee to help do blind picks. But that's too slow and awkward, so almost nobody does it.

Instead, here's a suggestion: just use paper "cards", or even just your phone, to administer a blind-pick for yourself. That way you can't get counterpicked in game 1.

This might be especially important for Smash Ultimate: because there are so many characters (and echo fighters), so counterpicking might be more prominent than previous smash games.

And especially in Squad Strike, we might need this system so that you can pick your whole roster in private.

 

[SmashBro99]

I like this a lot, and now I want a character deck haha

 

[FNUStory]

Using paper cards for every time a character picking process happens just feels like a waste of paper, and there’s a lot of ways for one to manipulate the system to successfully counter pick off the opponents pick if it’s done with a phone.

 

[Yosher]

Honestly I thought it was already done with a referee of some kind? It's not that hard is it? Just call over an impartial judge for both sides (or just one for both), and make them whisper their choice into the ref's ear or whatever, then if they pick a different character, the judge can call them out on it. I don't see why this has to be so difficult.

 

[Uffe]

This is probably why when you play people online, you're unable to see which character they selected. I'm not saying Sakurai or whoever have a MU list, but they might have thought that the other player might know a thing or two about their opponents character and counter them with someone else. I think this also might be the reason they have you choose a stage first in Ultimate before selecting a character. If you know you can take Olimar to Halberd and kill him off the top at low percent because of the low ceiling and his light weight, then it would be your best option. At least in Ultimate, you'd select the stage unknowingly who your opponent is going to be using.

 

[infomon]

Honestly I thought it was already done with a referee of some kind? It's not that hard is it? Just call over an impartial judge for both sides (or just one for both), and make them whisper their choice into the ref's ear or whatever, then if they pick a different character, the judge can call them out on it. I don't see why this has to be so difficult.

Well, as I say in the video, the problem with that is it's too slow and kinda awkward. At most tournaments it would waste a lot of time if everyone needs to find a referee to help them choose their characters. And because it's too slow, people don't usually do it -- or they only do it when they think they might need it. Which means the opponent knows that you're making a fuss about your first character choice -- so you're already giving something away, that might change who they pick!

Which is why I think we need a faster self-administered convention.

 

[staindgrey]

Using paper cards for every time a character picking process happens just feels like a waste of paper, and there’s a lot of ways for one to manipulate the system to successfully counter pick off the opponents pick if it’s done with a phone.

If only Nintendo had easy access to some sort of... mass-production of small, easily pocketable pieces of thin but firm, laminated paper, something that could be stacked and reused. Something they could sell in a bundle for all 70ish characters to be used in tournaments. Like... Almost like a deck of cards, maybe.

 

[FirestormNeos]

If only Nintendo had easy access to some sort of... mass-production of small, easily pocketable pieces of thin but firm, laminated paper, something that could be stacked and reused. Something they could sell in a bundle for all 70ish characters to be used in tournaments. Like... Almost like a deck of cards, maybe.

****. I don't even go to tournaments, and yet this post makes me want a deck of Cards where each card is a Smash Bros character.

Or to make one myself so that I can make all the pictures various memes.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

If only Nintendo had easy access to some sort of... mass-production of small, easily pocketable pieces of thin but firm, laminated paper, something that could be stacked and reused. Something they could sell in a bundle for all 70ish characters to be used in tournaments. Like... Almost like a deck of cards, maybe.

Please don't give Nintendo any ideas about trading cards. The last thing we need is for anyone to create any form of loot box gambling.

 

[staindgrey]

Please don't give Nintendo any ideas about trading cards. The last thing we need is for anyone to create any form of loot box gambling.

Loot box?

I'm talking physical cards.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Loot box?

I'm talking physical cards.

Your images were of the trading card system. Besides, the fact that any particular person may only use three or four of those cards ever makes this feel like a colossal waste of paper. Even if only TOs buy them, cards decay over time which allows one to cheat the system by recognizing the backs and how they have decayed over time. Even if they're buying extra to combat this, they're still buying the same amount of cards for top tier fighters as they are for middle, low, and bottom tier fighters. Because those cards would be touched less often than top tiers, people who frequently hosts tournaments will end up with an unnecessary surplus of cards for generally bad fighters.

Any way you slice it, they're either a waste of resources, or an easily manipulable system.

 

[Porygon2]

Any way you slice it, they're either a waste of resources, or an easily manipulable system.

This is a website for discussion of a videogame that requires massive amounts of capitalistic infrastructure to exist, runs on electricity, and comes wrapped in multiple forms of plastic. What an odd complaint.

The decaying of cards is also a very specific scenario - and effectively moot as OP's point is that it only need be less manipulable than the basic CS screen, which it markedly is. You may as well complain that you can see reflections in people's eyes.

 

[infomon]

I think people (who bother with this) will mainly just use their phones. And if a player has their own physical cards for their mains (and a few extras to leave room for doubt!), then that's kind of a fun novelty.

I would totally buy a "deck" of all the characters in the game, but that's just because I think that would be fun

The system maybe isn't bulletproof if people start looking for markings on your cards lol, but that's pretty extreme/unlikely. This is probably better than what you're already doing.

 

[staindgrey]

Your images were of the trading card system. Besides, the fact that any particular person may only use three or four of those cards ever makes this feel like a colossal waste of paper. Even if only TOs buy them, cards decay over time which allows one to cheat the system by recognizing the backs and how they have decayed over time. Even if they're buying extra to combat this, they're still buying the same amount of cards for top tier fighters as they are for middle, low, and bottom tier fighters. Because those cards would be touched less often than top tiers, people who frequently hosts tournaments will end up with an unnecessary surplus of cards for generally bad fighters.

Any way you slice it, they're either a waste of resources, or an easily manipulable system.

You are... really overthinking this.

Cards cost almost nothing to manufacture. One of those starter decks, consisting of 60+ cards already, retails for like $15 for a large profit (since they deteriorate in value once the next set releases). As a card player myself, it's... not... hard... at all to keep cards in good condition. And if they aren't, then you buy card sleeves. They're $0.50 for a pack of fifty at the store three blocks away from me. Nothing would be manipulated.

This hypothetical item made for purchase is optional and can be manufactured through the same partnership that Nintendo already has. And the idea is to just sell a deck of all the characters, not produce trading cards. If they were trading cards, they'd be for an entirely different purpose. This would be a limited run "counter pick set" or whatever you want to call it. And the idea that this is a "colossal waste of paper" is funny, considering there'll be a lot more paper used for the packaging of the game itself once they sell the projected 4+ million copies. These TO cards's sales would pale in comparison to the sales of actual trading cards.

It's cool if you don't like the idea, man. But your reasons for dismissing it were flimsy. Just say you don't like it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is quite smart honestly.

 

[FirestormNeos]

If you're worried about card decay, just get card sleeves.

Also, cards decay, but they don't break down that quickly. By the time they become unusable, Smash 6 will probably be out by then, and you can just buy another set.

Plus, the "loot box" system is only a problem if they sell the cards in boosters. What we're proposing is that they just sell an entire deck of cards with all of the fighters already in it with no variations, kind of like how Traditional Playing Card decks come with every card you'd need to play stuff like Poker and War.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You won't need to carry all the card either if you only play a handful of characters.

 

[Tollhouse]

I think this is a really good idea and it also sounds pretty fun!

And as someone who plays Yugioh I am 100% down with this.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I think it is easier to grab a third party and tell them who you will pick then announce it st the same time. Most times online should not be an issue.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I forgot card sleeves are a thing, so I didn’t think of that.

They can work in that case, but the question still on my mind is should the player be responsible for bringing Smash cards and the sleeves, or would the TO be responsible for providing them?

 

[staindgrey]

In this hypothetical situation, the TO.

Essentially, any tournament that wants to do the double blind standard for every match would have two decks of cards. And each player would pick the character they plan on using. (Two decks in case of dittos.) This would be superfluous and unessential since not every player will want to double blind, and, as mentioned, you can just both tell a third party, but TOs could choose to have these decks if they so wish-- particularly for top 16 that most people spectate. Nintendo can make a few bucks, collectors have something to hold onto, and some tournaments can have them as a standard for double blind picks.

Some people, of course, could just go to eBay and buy the cards for the characters they use and carry them around with them for fun if they want. I certainly would, but then again, I like collecting cards.

 

[infomon]

Nah IMO it's up to the player. You can do this now. You should do this now.

Guarantee for yourself a blind pick via cards/phone, so that you don't get grimed. It's in your best interest to do so.

You don't need any TO's blessing or help. You don't need the whole community to do this. You can just do this, now.