Upcoming Down Smash Tech Video

[XAV]

Hey everyone!

I wanted to let you all know that I'm currently working on a video highlighting Zero Suit Samus's down smash. I'll try to cover it's pros and cons, but I'll mainly focus on the combo potential of the move itself. All moves will be performed on Mario as he has a set average weight class, height, etc. If this video garners traction then I might produce more videos on Zss; however, this is the move I want to mainly focus on and inform the smash community about. Lastly, if anyone else is already working on a video like this let me know and I'll work with you to pump out the video.

P.S. Let me know what you think or what I should try to highlight in my video! Thanks.

-X

 

[Muffin!]

I think it would be useful to highlight the frame data: startup, endlag, and stun time. Use that as a basis to discuss in what situations it's appropriate to use and when you're better off just firing the paralyzer. A mistake I see a lot is people trying to use it out of a roll. It's too slow for that and almost always results in you getting punished. Rather, it's pretty limited in its use to edge guarding and hitting approaching targets. Some characters you can hit out of a roll, but again that depends on the frame data.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I think it would be useful to highlight the frame data: startup, endlag, and stun time. Use that as a basis to discuss in what situations it's appropriate to use and when you're better off just firing the paralyzer. A mistake I see a lot is people trying to use it out of a roll. It's too slow for that and almost always results in you getting punished. Rather, it's pretty limited in its use to edge guarding and hitting approaching targets. Some characters you can hit out of a roll, but again that depends on the frame data.

With respect to dsmash and rolls... it depends. If you get a read on the roll, many rolls are approximately 27 frames long, and ZSS' dsmash takes 16 frames to get to it's charge frame. After that, it only takes 4 frames to release that dsmash. With an average human reaction time of 6 frames (1/10 a second), it is within the realm of physical possibility to react to a roll with dsmash. Get any kind of read? It's a done deal.

 

[Muffin!]

With respect to dsmash and rolls... it depends. If you get a read on the roll, many rolls are approximately 27 frames long, and ZSS' dsmash takes 16 frames to get to it's charge frame. After that, it only takes 4 frames to release that dsmash. With an average human reaction time of 6 frames (1/10 a second), it is within the realm of physical possibility to react to a roll with dsmash. Get any kind of read? It's a done deal.

That's Dsmash on your opponent's roll. I'm talking dsmash out of a roll. As in, ZSS rolls behind their opponent and tries to Dsmash.

 

[David Viran]

That's Dsmash on your opponent's roll. I'm talking dsmash out of a roll. As in, ZSS rolls behind their opponent and tries to Dsmash.

Who does this?

 

[Muffin!]

Who does this?

Nubs. That's my point. It's a tutorial video. For most of the people that frequent this place it's not going to be anything new. That's why he came here and asked us for advice. To someone just picking up ZSS, Dsmash OOS or from a roll or any close range scenario seems like the logical way to use it.

 

[Arma_]

Hey XYZ. ;o

Let's see some dsmash to flipkick spike shenanigans! You told me you know some magic percentages and tips for getting the spikes, so I'd love to see you pull some of those out of dsmash stun.

 

[XAV]

Hey everyone,

I have considered analyzing the frame date for down smash and I do know that the stun from it increases with percentages at well eventually being able to kill only at very high percent ranges. I will cover it's uses, but usually you'd use down smash only when your opponent is in close quarters. So many people have the right idea to roll behind their opponent to apply the down smash; however, it just doesn't work most of the time as it only comes out in one direction. It comes out too slow and needs to be properly spaced to land it. You can't really use it as a zoning tool as you would paralyzer.

Arma,

I will go over that as well,so stay tuned for the vid. It will be my first one so I'm sure I'll leave something out lol

 

[David Viran]

I do not agree with close quarters exactly. Dsmash has insane horizontal range and can easily outrange a roll so that's how you prevent the roll in because it's kind of reactable. Also dsmash does actually hit slightly behind her.

 

[Arma_]

Does dsmash stun time also depend on percentage? I thought it was charge time and whether you sweet (close) or sour (near the edge of the hitbox) spot it. I haven't really done thorough testing though. After my hiatus from this character to play Diddy and Sonic, I have missed a lot of lab time.

 

[David Viran]

Stun time is only affected by percent and well the sweet spot sour spot thing. Technically you can crouch cancel dsmash to make it stun for less time but there is absolutely no reason to do that.

 

[Muffin!]

I do not agree with close quarters exactly. Dsmash has insane horizontal range and can easily outrange a roll so that's how you prevent the roll in because it's kind of reactable. Also dsmash does actually hit slightly behind her.

I agree with this. Dsmash is just too slow to use in close quarters. Really it's only application I think is to ward off approaches and ledge guard. Your opponent essentially has to run/roll into dsmash for it to be useful. If you try and place the hitbox on top of them you're just going to get punished.

The exception is punishing a few moves with heavy endlag, but even then it's not always optimal.

 

[David Viran]

I agree with this. Dsmash is just too slow to use in close quarters. Really it's only application I think is to ward off approaches and ledge guard. Your opponent essentially has to run/roll into dsmash for it to be useful. If you try and place the hitbox on top of them you're just going to get punished.

The exception is punishing a few moves with heavy endlag, but even then it's not always optimal.

If you want to see dsmash used correctly in neutral go check out choco.