TWK? Olimar vids! New videos 5/9!!!

[TWK?]

New vids are up!

Vs. SATAN
New 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc41INbSKp4

Vs. JOOS!
NEW 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEtZ8DZdMsM

Vs. Blind
1) http://youtube.com/watch?v=KR0zKwCdSeo
2) http://youtube.com/watch?v=kTxR_DFZBnc&feature=related

 

[NessySmashBros]

You're good nice video's. I would say you are getting there, as Olimar as my main I would say that I could give some advice.

Try to use Olimars meteor smash, it's really good. Also try hard smashes to sent him flying.

What I do is alway try to get them above you and then up smash there ***. It can keep them up for a bit but don't always work if you are against someone good they could just air dodge it.

Up smash it my main killer then it's the meteor. Little note, when using Olimar it's very easy to just c stick, but try not to. You can get harder hits that way.

Another thing if you didn't know is that the Down Smash hits them of the edge.

Altogether nice vids and keep it up. Hope this helps you out.

 

[DanGR]

there are no meteor smashes. only cooler looking spikes. :D

 

[NessySmashBros]

No Meteor Smash

Final Kill Here

EDIT

Ok it is a spike. Whats the difference (Sorry if N00Bie question)

 

[HocotateDefender]

Hey I am an Olimar user also. That was very good. Only thing I recommend is try not to C Stick so much. That is what I used to do a lot and it lead to some very bad habits:D I hope this helps you out.

 

[DanGR]

spikes-instantly spike(hit) you downwards.
meteor smashes-have longer animation, longer pre-lag, usually more damage(maybe always), and harder(if not impossible)to recover from if hit below the stage.

i'm just saying in general there are no meteor smashes. there's only cooler looking spikes in the brawl world. It was a simple joke.

 

[asob4]

c-stick is needed.....
keep the c-sticking, it's never a bad thing, especially with olimar.
lucario is, imo, a tough matchup for oli. it's best to never go under him when he's in the air, his dair out-prioritizes everything. good oli though.
remember this: when your opponent is at high %'s, f/b-throw with blue, uthrow with purple

 

[NessySmashBros]

Thanks for the explanation

And no don't C-stick, bad habit

 

[TWK?]

Thanks for all the advice guys! As far as the spike goes, I think you can see a couple times where I hit Lucario with some HORRIBLY mistimed ones, lol. I'll be sure to work on the timing of it. As far as c-sticking is concerned, I kind of paniced a bit during those matches what with his Lucario being so aerially aggressive I was trying to find any space I could. I usually Fair kind of like a Marth would, I'll try to get some more videos up by this weekend so you can see me in more diverse matchups. I'll try to tone down the c-sticking like I normally would (btw I love Oli's Dtilt for some reason, lol). Thanks for all the support and advice! I honestly didn't expect so many replies so soon .

 

[shrinkray21]

no c-sticking??? since when...I'm assuming you mean don't repeatedly smash attacks...b/c I(and a good number of really good players) use the c-stick for almost everything - we are talking grabs, aerials, down dodges, smashes, and tilts...as far as your vids go, expect me to be able to get a look at these this week - i've been busy with finals but I should have free time tomorrow or thursday!

 

[NessySmashBros]

I'm not saying it's not good to use c-stick a few times but just not lots of times.

Where i use C-stick

-Opponent falling from above (C-Stick Up)
-Opponent too close (C-Stick wherever the opponent is)

 

[shrinkray21]

I'm not saying it's not good to use c-stick a few times but just not lots of times.

Where i use C-stick

-Opponent falling from above (C-Stick Up)
-Opponent too close (C-Stick wherever the opponent is)

That is not using the c-stick to its full capacity - when its used correctly, the c-stick changes the whole style of gameplay - to the point to where the person looks just fast - not like they are doing anything specifically different in strategy (namely, you can't tell they are c-sticking)

 

[TrueRedemption]

lol, mid microbiology studying i came across the last bit of this post and had to post...

NessySmashBros, in good spirit and manners please explain what the disadvantage of using the c-stick only a few times is?

Using the C-Stick has by definition only 1 frame of an advantage over any move you would typically use. This 1/60th of a second only applies on aerials, and only regarding DI. You are able to DI (drift backwards, i'm not referring to responding to a hit) on the same frame as when you input an attack a different direction than your attack requires input. This difference if actually practiced would make minimal difference. However, this requires super human precision to apply, and here is where c-sticking makes its impact on play. Convenience in small simple areas that lead to greater control. On the ground, c-sticking allows you to through out a smash attack as quickly as possible, where as using A can often vary timing a fraction of a second due to an unnoticeable time spent accidentally charging the move, or less than precise timing when inputing the command. Play SSBM, you not using c-stick and your friend using c-stick, if your control and level of play are even near competative standard, you'll see this fractional difference. It is in no way an insult to your ability to input commands, nor your timing, it is simply due to human imprecision faster to c-stick than A button input. That being said, while on the ground doing a tilt when the c-stick is still set to smash is no faster using A or the c-stick. As for the air the human difference becomes even more noticeable. The timing requiring joystick input and A button input is even refined still humanly "sloppy" compared to the computer precise input of the c-stick. This is so more obvious in the air due to the DI drifting input. To understand what I'm trying to describe if you don't grasp my words, go into a game and attempt to jump straight up, FAir, and without DI'ing backwards see how far forward you land compared to where you jumped. Fact is, you will not be able to reliably recreate the rare situation you do only input forward for one frame timed to the A press to do a forward air with only that frame of DI lost. However, by using the c-stick you are able to not only drift a different direction while preforming the aerial attack, but it removes that entire window of DI you were forfeiting to input the desired aerial, allowing far more precise aerial control over your character. To be fair, thats what it all comes down to, the more control over your character, the more precise you can play, the more precise you play the more efficient you can become, and the more efficient you are in your actions, the faster you are capable of playing. Speed hasn't been as drastically increased like SSBM yet, but in all fighting games, and really any competition at all where speed helps, any time you can do something faster without removing any of its potency that will always be better. C-sticking does that for many input commands in brawl, even if only minimally. Its single frame input is also pivotal in some advanced techniques. I'm all ears to your explanation Nessy, however it will need to be fairly significant to overcome such a fundamental difference.



-True

 

[TWK?]

By the way, I thought Nessy's reference to my c-stick usage was referring only to my liberal use of forward smashes at certain points. lol, I personally cstick my aerials, mainly down and up because I play with tap jump and end up jumping or fast falling far too often. Against Lucario I do get a bit Fsmash happy.... whoops lol.

 

[shrinkray21]

lol, mid microbiology studying i came across the last bit of this post and had to post...

NessySmashBros, in good spirit and manners please explain what the disadvantage of using the c-stick only a few times is?

Using the C-Stick has by definition only 1 frame of an advantage over any move you would typically use. This 1/60th of a second only applies on aerials, and only regarding DI. You are able to DI (drift backwards, i'm not referring to responding to a hit) on the same frame as when you input an attack a different direction than your attack requires input. This difference if actually practiced would make minimal difference. However, this requires super human precision to apply, and here is where c-sticking makes its impact on play. Convenience in small simple areas that lead to greater control. On the ground, c-sticking allows you to through out a smash attack as quickly as possible, where as using A can often vary timing a fraction of a second due to an unnoticeable time spent accidentally charging the move, or less than precise timing when inputing the command. Play SSBM, you not using c-stick and your friend using c-stick, if your control and level of play are even near competative standard, you'll see this fractional difference. It is in no way an insult to your ability to input commands, nor your timing, it is simply due to human imprecision faster to c-stick than A button input. That being said, while on the ground doing a tilt when the c-stick is still set to smash is no faster using A or the c-stick. As for the air the human difference becomes even more noticeable. The timing requiring joystick input and A button input is even refined still humanly "sloppy" compared to the computer precise input of the c-stick. This is so more obvious in the air due to the DI drifting input. To understand what I'm trying to describe if you don't grasp my words, go into a game and attempt to jump straight up, FAir, and without DI'ing backwards see how far forward you land compared to where you jumped. Fact is, you will not be able to reliably recreate the rare situation you do only input forward for one frame timed to the A press to do a forward air with only that frame of DI lost. However, by using the c-stick you are able to not only drift a different direction while preforming the aerial attack, but it removes that entire window of DI you were forfeiting to input the desired aerial, allowing far more precise aerial control over your character. To be fair, thats what it all comes down to, the more control over your character, the more precise you can play, the more precise you play the more efficient you can become, and the more efficient you are in your actions, the faster you are capable of playing. Speed hasn't been as drastically increased like SSBM yet, but in all fighting games, and really any competition at all where speed helps, any time you can do something faster without removing any of its potency that will always be better. C-sticking does that for many input commands in brawl, even if only minimally. Its single frame input is also pivotal in some advanced techniques. I'm all ears to your explanation Nessy, however it will need to be fairly significant to overcome such a fundamental difference.



-True

Absolutely correct...once again...and yes I think that people are referring to c-sticking as forward smashing which is an awful generalization to make... it gives the idea to new players that c-sticking in all forms is bad.

Onto the videos!!

video 1)

Alright - there was some things that you did extremely well - kept pikmin count high, good whistles - and most of all - GREAT TILTS, don't lose that.

However, know your damages! Against a lucario you can't let them survive into the 100's or you are asking to get drilled in later matches - save your upsmash till around 100 and look to sweetspot...I saw 0 downsmash...that's a great killing move and most of all - know the throws for pikmin type - you grabbed your opponent at 120 damage with a purple!! That's a free kill - throw them up with purple - back with blue - and just beat them up with white :D. Also - I think you should incorporate more latch into your gameplay - it would get rid of a little bit of your standstill nature and make you more competative in the end!.

Video 2)

2:53 - missed edgeguard
3:06 - incredible edgeguard!!
3:35 - should have hyphen smashed here!

Your strengths were very similar for this match - good job on the win but I would like to see you play on a non fd stage, olly is too good on fd

Once again, I want to see some latch!! I also feel that your grab game is one of your main weaknesses overall, you don't seem to know any grab combos - an anchor of olly's game - and I would like to see more up air to up b - you had good opportunities here.

and please - tell your opponent how to edgeguard olly ...you'll eventually play people who know how to do that!

Good matches, keep practicing - thanks for posting and being patient for my lazy butt to get to this forum!!

 

[NessySmashBros]

Ok I am sorry I started this all off. All I think in my opinion is not to use c-stick too much because I think it's cheap. (I don't mean to offend anyone)

I my self have been using C-stick a lot but i just think that you can pull off stronger hit by charging it. But I'm all for using it if you were going to use a non charged smash anyway.

This is my opinion and I can't understand if someone disagrees with this because we all have our own ways.

 

[TrueRedemption]

Oh no worries, i thought you might have for that reason, only reason i jumped on it, no offense, i myself years ago was the same way, basically till i saw it was an advantage and there was no reason not to and how much control i felt even early in the change =P i just wondered if perhaps you'd heard some weird discovery that stale moves are on different counters if you use c-stick compared to A or something, that'd be weird but brawl is weird so...

Shrink's thoughts are pretty solid, as are a lot of the response you've gotten on this thread =) Take their advice and keep it in mind when you play so that you can actually begin to act, use, and develop from it.

Importantly though, just keep up playing TWK? try and develop a focus on each game you play so that at every moment you know exactly what olimar is doing, and what options you have. You'll innately be developing this just by playing, but really trying to learn it does actually help you achieve complete control faster. The hard part is if you only play with friends, when your losing awareness of exactly what your doing, just stop and regain this control. At first it'll take a lot of focus to be absolutely aware of your own character/actions, but with consistent practice it'll take less and less till its finally an unthinking ability to simply do whatever you can think of without pause or mistake. If/When you have this control, then try playing faster in whatever little way you can, making decisions faster, dashing as soon as a move ends in correct response to the situation, fast falling all the time (unless the rare time you don't just to mess up your opponents juggling attempt) just anything you can that makes you play faster. Once your playing a little faster it won't be hard to fine tune the little things in your play style, as you'll have complete control over Olimar anyway, at that point it just becomes thinking to do the different/new/correct things. Its not an easy, quick, or glamorous path, but you'll become a solid competative player if you do.


-True

 

[shrinkray21]

Oh no worries, i thought you might have for that reason, only reason i jumped on it, no offense, i myself years ago was the same way, basically till i saw it was an advantage and there was no reason not to and how much control i felt even early in the change =P i just wondered if perhaps you'd heard some weird discovery that stale moves are on different counters if you use c-stick compared to A or something, that'd be weird but brawl is weird so...

Shrink's thoughts are pretty solid, as are a lot of the response you've gotten on this thread =) Take their advice and keep it in mind when you play so that you can actually begin to act, use, and develop from it.

Importantly though, just keep up playing TWK? try and develop a focus on each game you play so that at every moment you know exactly what olimar is doing, and what options you have. You'll innately be developing this just by playing, but really trying to learn it does actually help you achieve complete control faster. The hard part is if you only play with friends, when your losing awareness of exactly what your doing, just stop and regain this control. At first it'll take a lot of focus to be absolutely aware of your own character/actions, but with consistent practice it'll take less and less till its finally an unthinking ability to simply do whatever you can think of without pause or mistake. If/When you have this control, then try playing faster in whatever little way you can, making decisions faster, dashing as soon as a move ends in correct response to the situation, fast falling all the time (unless the rare time you don't just to mess up your opponents juggling attempt) just anything you can that makes you play faster. Once your playing a little faster it won't be hard to fine tune the little things in your play style, as you'll have complete control over Olimar anyway, at that point it just becomes thinking to do the different/new/correct things. Its not an easy, quick, or glamorous path, but you'll become a solid competative player if you do.


-True

I'm only so adamant about c-sticking b/c I didn't c-stick once during brawl - not once, I didn't understand how valuable it was - and it created a ceiling for my captain falcon I couldn't get above.

 

[TWK?]

Thanks guys! Shrink, I was slightly confused about your notes on video 1, saying that there were 0 downsmashes. I used it 9 times in that match, altho only 4 or so hit and none at a desirable percent >.<. As for the throws, I was never really too sure about specific ones except for the backthrow with blue. Thanks for the tip about purples and upthrows! I really do love Oli's tilts, so I'm glad you noticed . (Slightly odd because I never seem to use Zelda's tilts enough, hahaha). More matches should be coming soon!

 

[shrinkray21]

Thanks guys! Shrink, I was slightly confused about your notes on video 1, saying that there were 0 downsmashes. I used it 9 times in that match, altho only 4 or so hit and none at a desirable percent >.<. As for the throws, I was never really too sure about specific ones except for the backthrow with blue. Thanks for the tip about purples and upthrows! I really do love Oli's tilts, so I'm glad you noticed . (Slightly odd because I never seem to use Zelda's tilts enough, hahaha). More matches should be coming soon!

Alright, cool and the dsmash was a typo - I was specifically looking at the point when lucario was above 100, I didn't see it there.

 

[TWK?]

bump for new vids.

 

[DanGR]

I don't feel like thinking any more today(hardest AP exam), but one thing I noticed was that you dair too much. If you spam it everytime you edgeguard, they'll recognize your spammage and punish you. some instances(first set of vids i think it was) you dair-ed when they were above you? i think...no i don't.don't want think...sorry..bleh...

 

[TWK?]

Ya, I get kind of excited about spikes... lol they seem to demoralize the guys I play with, but you're absolutely right, I'll work on mixing it up a bit more, lol. Thanks for your help!

 

[Riot_ Fires]

About the c-stick comment..

Personally i try and varie it for certain attacks like airial attacks or u-smash.. I dunno sometimes i find that my c-stick is unreliable an doesnt register and that i seem to be getting a faster smash out of some moves by just using an A smash..

I would like to get another controller to check that its just my controller being a ******* to me but thats just my personal experiences with c-sticking.. Seems great for some moves especially arials but unreliable for some ground attacks because it just doesnt register.. =/

 

[Riot_ Fires]

Okay i checked out the vids.. COMMENTS..!

Your first 2 videos against kirby and zamus had your opponents using some really strange approaches that worked in your advantage.. Kirby used his rock and sword moves to much leavin him vulnerable to grabs and smashes.. Zamus liked using 3 moves.. Charging in at you, neutral jab and whip.. His problem was tryin to fight a grounded battle against an Olimar who has much better ground control personally..

Lucario matches were really interesting to watch.. I liked your use of the D-tilt which i also find as a good move not only to mix **** up an confuse people but also as a spacer to set up your opponents attacks finishing either behind you or just short of you leaving them open to attack..

Its early an thats all i got off the top of my head.. Good Olimar game all round an hope to see some more soon..

 

[keeper]

Use Pikmin Toss more. You never use it.