Trying to advance my melee skill, but hindered by it.

[keymanb]

Hi, I'm a Falco main, I secondary, fox, captain falcon, Marth and ganondorf. I've been playing competitive smash for nearly a year now. It's been a long run, but I'll get straight to it. I've been super determined, driven by willpower alone and its fruits have emerged. I'm now excellent at techs on my characters, I'm especially precise in fox and falcon. And all this perfect tech to the point of being able to multi shine on command, won't do good if I don't have the experience to back it up. I'm going to admit, I climbed this ladder alone, my precision was all created by bots, and I only recently started net play. My experience and general skill is too far behind my tech and can't keep up. I climbed this mountain and I don't know what to do.

It sounds like a rare problem, but if anyone could help me, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Twinkles]

Play more people

Try to find the smashers in your local area, grind out games ASAP
watch lots of pro vids
if you have the tech, work on FAST and EFFICIENT decision-making

 

[EPsilon933]

You're capable of doing a lot of stuff, but you're stupid. Get experience playing against people so you'll learn how to be smart

 

[AudioSilver]

Feel free to ask me any questions about Fox or Marth! keymanb

 

[20LC]

Have you tried reading "The Four Aspects of Melee."

 

[keymanb]

I'd like a link 20LC

You're capable of doing a lot of stuff, but you're stupid. Get experience playing against people so you'll learn how to be smart

Although that was rude, it's probably right.

 

[pagedMov]

wait hold up
you spent a year (365 days) doing nothing but practicing tech against bots

 

[twopercent]

Although that was rude, it's probably right.

it was a fairly objective criticism. if most of your training is against bots and just solo tech skill, your game sense is inevitably going to be dumber than that of someone who has a lot of tournament experience.

im trying to meet other people who play smash right now for this very reason; i've spent way too much time just playing CPUs and it's not helping me any more.

 

[keymanb]

wait hold up
you spent a year (365 days) doing nothing but practicing tech against bots

No, I played a lot with my friend who is my practice partner, and my brother. However half the time I played bots. And I'm not as bad as you think. I'm getting tired of people judging my play just because I didn't have the resources to play other people. I'm fully aware of the limitations of bots. I'm sapped as much practice as possible, it's dry and I have the resources to move on so I will.

it was a fairly objective criticism. if most of your training is against bots and just solo tech skill, your game sense is inevitably going to be dumber than that of someone who has a lot of tournament experience.

im trying to meet other people who play smash right now for this very reason; i've spent way too much time just playing CPUs and it's not helping me any more.

I'll play you. We are both in the same boat.

 

[twopercent]

I'll play you. We are both in the same boat.

i need to get a GCN adapter before i can do any netplay but i should probably get on that pretty soon lol

 

[RedMoon2546]

well, think about this: m2k spent his time figuring out things like frame data and tech and was good at all of that, but he didnt have the experience to play well in real matches. im sure when you play real people for awhile and figure out the things humans do youll most likely play fine. it may take half a year and up to figure it out, but it will be worth it in the end.

 

[Spak]

EDIT: Dumb mobile is dumb. Sorry for the double post.

EDIT 2: Dumb mobile is so dumb that it said I double posted. Here was the original message:

well, think about this: m2k spent his time figuring out things like frame data and tech and was good at all of that, but he didnt have the experience to play well in real matches. im sure when you play real people for awhile and figure out the things humans do youll most likely play fine. it may take half a year and up to figure it out, but it will be worth it in the end.

Actually, he always went to lots of tournaments. He just did everything frame data in addition to the normal tournament attendance.

 

[RedMoon2546]

EDIT: Dumb mobile is dumb. Sorry for the double post.

EDIT 2: Dumb mobile is so dumb that it said I double posted. Here was the original message:


Actually, he always went to lots of tournaments. He just did everything frame data in addition to the normal tournament attendance.

Yeah, but he was kinda bad to start with. It didn't matter if he was frame perfect cause it didn't help him to begin with.

 

[Spak]

Yeah, but he was kinda bad to start with. It didn't matter if he was frame perfect cause it didn't help him to begin with.

Everyone is kinda bad to start with. That's why he went to tournaments. Also, if I remember correctly, he started attending tournaments before he ground out frame data, not after.

 

[Roukiske]

In regards to classic fighting games you're pretty much a "lab rat" (lab = training mode) basically doing a lot of practice in "training mode", honing your combos or tech skill, but not having real match practice. I'm the same way in games like MvC and what does it get me? Well, I can do my BnB's perfectly fine... if only I could get a hit on someone. I also can't block properly making it a 1 player game for my opponent. What to do when I'm being pressured? I dunno, I'm always fighting non-attacking CPU's. What good is your skill if you can't hit your opponent right?

You aren't alone and there are many with your problem. There are plenty who can only practice alone because they don't have access to netplay, a local scene, or just can't get the transportation to go. It would be hard to learn things like mindgames, neutral, spacing, being on the defensive, decision making, proper use of dash dancing, etc without a human there to react to you. Be sure to ask questions when you can, especially if you can't land a hit. I asked a top player why everything I did whiffed or why certain things did not work against them and it opened my eyes. You have quite the long road, but it's fun so who cares. Good luck.

Edit: Typos

 

[Dandy_here]

Play one or two characters and drop everyone else. If you have some friends who play, practice with them as much as possible. Knowledge is the key to success

 

[LovinMitts]

I had to learn this the hard way:

Until you actually play at a high enough level that matchups really REALLY matter, drop your secondaries. Devote all your time to your main. Other characters waste practice time you could be putting towards the one character. It'll let you really get the hang of the intricacies of your character's playstyle.

It sounds harsh and abrupt, but I promise it's for the best. You can still play other characters for fun and whatnot, I just wouldn't recommend putting in time to practice with them.

 

[keymanb]

LovinMitts

Dandy_here

What happens if I dual main? Falco and Falcon, although I prioritize Falco.

 

[LovinMitts]

LovinMitts

Dandy_here

What happens if I dual main? Falco and Falcon, although I prioritize Falco.

Nope. Go full Falco, for now. It'll pay off tremendously. Falcon isn't even that good of a secondary since he doesn't cover any matchups that Falco would have issues with, really. Once you feel the need for a secondary, Marth or Fox are great. But you won't be there for a while tbh. I'm not, even, and I've been playing for a pretty long time.

Do you need tips on how to train and stuff though? Because you won't get far if you're not training well.

 

[Spak]

Yeah, you shouldn't dual-main... Dual-maining allows you to be good with two characters, but having one main and an optional secondary lets you be great with one character and OK with another. Falco is more technical and has a fairly large learning curve, but Falcon has some absolute garbage MUs against other top tiers. I play Falcon because I think he's more fun to play (and I would drop competitive gaming in a heartbeat if I wasn't having fun with it and that push to get better (why I never picked up competitive Sm4sh)), but do whatever you want to do.

 

[keymanb]

Yeah, you shouldn't dual-main... Dual-maining allows you to be good with two characters, but having one main and an optional secondary lets you be great with one character and OK with another. Falco is more technical and has a fairly large learning curve, but Falcon has some absolute garbage MUs against other top tiers. I play Falcon because I think he's more fun to play (and I would drop competitive gaming in a heartbeat if I wasn't having fun with it and that push to get better (why I never picked up competitive Sm4sh)), but do whatever you want to do.

I don't even have a Wii U or a 3DS yet I'm naturally better than nearly everyone else in sm4sh, I guess melee skill is universal, but it can be reversed.

Also I should probably focus all my time on falco. I'm considering having about 40 minutes training session every day as falco, and 15 minutes to fit in all my secondaries and falcon.