Trouble for my Ganondorf

[Dr. Hyde]

Okay I'm having trouble with three characters that I just can't seem to deal with.

TL- He just spaces so well with arrows, Zair , and Boomerangs and I can get close enough to get the grab or attack. I can get some in but it's just annoying as heck to approach this little punk

Mario- Just throws fireballs, my friend spams the little red button and claims that it's hard to maintain spacing with the fireballs. I can't get anything off consistently to get close to take him down. The D-tilt can kick some fireballs but when he gets closer the next fireball comes and hits over the hitbox and burns me and then I get grabbed or jabbed or ... well you see what I mean

Sonic- most bull$hit match up for me, I fight MK's and shieks with Olimar. I whiff and get punished. I get close and he moves out of range and punishes. I tried faking an attack and then attacking but he just comes in faster than I can attack. Srsly, BS match.

Help with these? Or has anyone had the same experience?

 

[A2ZOMG]

TL, learn to powershield his stuff. You REALLY have to pay attention to what he is doing.

Mario, Dash attack at opportune moments. It will go through his Fireballs. Once you get in the range where you are close enough to attack him, but out of his F-tilt range, you have the advantage.

Sonic, shieldcamp and U-air out of shield if he tries to do spindash -> aerial. Sonic can really only do one thing to you if you shield, and that is mindgame into a Dashgrab or hope one of his attacks somehow shieldpokes you.

Hope it helps.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Mario, Dash attack at opportune moments. It will go through his Fireballs. Once you get in the range where you are close enough to attack him, but out of his F-tilt range, you have the advantage.

Ok I have tried this before but when I did it the fireball hit me and my dash attack was stopped.
I did down tilt, down tilt, and then I thought I was close enough and that I would hit him through his fireball but it burned me and cost me a stock.

I have gone through his fireballs with it before but for some reason it's not consistent

Sonic, shieldcamp and U-air out of shield if he tries to do spindash -> aerial. Sonic can really only do one thing to you if you shield, and that is mindgame into a Dashgrab or hope one of his attacks somehow shieldpokes you.

Ok, basically, Sonic does sit there and spin, and just makes me wait. I should wait more but I don't. Waiting shouldn't be a game. And yeah I'll try the Uair OoS option. Is it fast enough to punish it?

TL, learn to powershield his stuff. You REALLY have to pay attention to what he is doing.

I guess I'll try harder but yeah he is a bother getting to, though I guess powershielding is all I need to do.

This is helpful

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Dude I feel your pain, I hate facing Sonic's. I need help with this matchup too. Every Sonic I've faced are all the same. They see me using Ganon, tremble, run away from me and try to get in a cheap shot.

 

[2fAke]

I have no tourny sonic experience, but I have found that shielding helps alot and thunderstorming can break up a dashgrab routine. Uair IS nice against the afore mentioned sonic approach that A2Z brought up. Sonic has enough lag from a Dair that a roll then choke should catch him. After that, if you expect a tech, tech chase. If you expect a rising attack roll away then rechoke. Sonic's Nb can be Uaired with proper spacing, but sometimes I still eat that attack. He's light, so CP smaller stages if you can; Yoshi's island, Brinstar, and IMO Rainbow cruise. He'll be on top of you more, but by the forth or fifth Uair, he'd best be DIing properly.

With mario, you want to hit the fireballs with the earlier to mid frames of Ganon's dash attack. His jab and ftilt, if memory serves can also stop them. Another approach I use is approaching with air dodges. The fireballs have short range, so you could always wait it out at a safe distance if you have the percentage advantage.

Toon is the one that has bothered me the most, really. I just dodge the arrows, but the boomerang comes out after a couple and cracks me sometimes. His Dair beats Ganon's Uair from overhead, so you need to be just out of the way to catch him with it when he Dairs.When I get caught in TL's grounded Ub at low percent, I sometimes respond with a nair on descent or an aerial whizkick. If the TL player likes bombs, I believe you can catch them with an air dodge then glide toss them back into a Usmash. I'd CP battle field against Toon, for platform purposes.

Hope my advice helps, sorry if it causes more problems.

Ultimately, though, I dread Falco.

 

[deadpoe7]

Ganon can gerudo sonic out of his rolling attacks, so if you see him charging one, mind-game him and choke when he starts, or just initiate the gerudo if he foolishly rolls to you at long distance. Because of Sonic's speed, you want to favor uair the most out of your aerials due to its wide hit range. When you're both at the edge, be careful of his spring, which can gimp you if you aren't ready for it.

As for Toon Link, my oh my this kid is a little sackful of ****. I imagine that knowing priority would be especially useful in this match-up, specifically, knowing which aerial to use against his bair (if there is an option). I've found that aerial wizkick is very useful on TL, but I would reserve it for when he is in kill percentages to keep from him from getting used to it.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ultimately, though, I dread Falco.

Falco is tolerable as long as you make sure you don't get CGed to spike near the ledge. Yeah, to an extent, easier said than done, but Ganon has far worse matchups in the name of Sheik and the Ice Climbers.

 

[2fAke]

Nine times out of ten I agree with you A2Z, however, I've only played a good Falco, not a good Ice or Shiek. Level 9 CPus are the extent of my SHiek and Icers, so I haven't had the fear instilled in me yet, that I probably should have. Falco's camp game seems more sound with the lazers, Db and Fb attacks, not to mention the hitbox behind him from jab which makes an opposite face jab spam horrible on PS1 and Corneria due to walls.

His CG is easier for most to pull off than Ice climbers and the nb has quicker release and better stun than the Ice Climbers. That alone makes camping easier, IMO. Not to say that the climbers or Shiek are a walk in the park. The lack of Shiek exposure actually has me fearing Zelda more than Shiek, which seems sad, because I hear that Shiek is an atrocious match. I just never see shiek, player or CPU. I'm in for a rude awakening when I get my opprotunity at tournies, I have a hunch. Although, the lack of a Ganon scene might give me an advantage due to a small amount of exposure and possibly a couple little known gimp tactics up my sleeve, which may or may not work on a few top tier characters, if said gimps even make themselve's available.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

Falco is tolerable as long as you make sure you don't get CGed to spike near the ledge. Yeah, to an extent, easier said than done, but Ganon has far worse matchups in the name of Sheik and the Ice Climbers.

I second Sheik so I know a lot of her tricks, it's saved me in a few games

Ice Climbers.......make me cry inside

 

[deadpoe7]

Ice Climbers.......make me cry inside

Oh snap, yes! I used to think Olimar was unapproachable...I was wrong. The only hope I can think of against them is the tipman gimp.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try and put it into practice before Gigabits comes

 

[hyperstation]

For sonic there's one VERY important thing to remember. at about 100%, Gerudo to iDA follow-up = guaranteed kill. I kill sonic this way SO much.

 

[A2ZOMG]

If you're playing against Ice Climbers that suck, they are beatable. Just barely. Desynched Smashes alone make the matchup retardedly gay though.

The ones that don't suck will 0-death you each time they get a grab. You have only one viable attack on the ICs when they are both together, and that is D-tilt, and it is not easy to get off while they camp with Ice Blocks and Blizzard. And all they have to do is get off a dashgrab when you whiff something and it's over.

Dealing with Sheik is like Falco, except she's always a threat and at any given moment, she can set you up for a gimp, whereas Falco can only reliably set up his gimp at low percents. Her F-tilt lock is pretty much as reliable as Falco's CG, in the sense that it will quickly get you from 0-50 really fast, and if the lands U-smash from there, that is 70% off the bat. Sheik is also by far much better at edgeguarding than Falco. Her F-air gimps are much easier to land and always possible to set up into with a stale hit from a F-tilt, and she can hog the ledge with her tether, which is really gay. In many ways, Sheik is also a much smaller and faster target than Falco as a number of her attacks (particularly that god**** D-smash) put her in a very low stance.

In short, Sheik is better at setting up her gimps on Ganon, and is much harder to hit than Falco.

 

[2fAke]

Good stuff A2Z, you just talked me into switching to Wolf or Diddy vs Zelda/sheik mains. I already had Wolf or Kirby in mind for climbers. My Diddy still needs too much work to be first consideration for either.

 

[deadpoe7]

I've found TL to be my go-to guy when I can't win with Ganon...of course, when I say "can't win," I mean after a couple of hours with few wins.

 

[Sgt. Baker]

If you're playing against Ice Climbers that suck, they are beatable. Just barely. Desynched Smashes alone make the matchup retardedly gay though.

The ones that don't suck will 0-death you each time they get a grab. You have only one viable attack on the ICs when they are both together, and that is D-tilt, and it is not easy to get off while they camp with Ice Blocks and Blizzard. And all they have to do is get off a dashgrab when you whiff something and it's over.

Dealing with Sheik is like Falco, except she's always a threat and at any given moment, she can set you up for a gimp, whereas Falco can only reliably set up his gimp at low percents. Her F-tilt lock is pretty much as reliable as Falco's CG, in the sense that it will quickly get you from 0-50 really fast, and if the lands U-smash from there, that is 70% off the bat. Sheik is also by far much better at edgeguarding than Falco. Her F-air gimps are much easier to land and always possible to set up into with a stale hit from a F-tilt, and she can hog the ledge with her tether, which is really gay. In many ways, Sheik is also a much smaller and faster target than Falco as a number of her attacks (particularly that god**** D-smash) put her in a very low stance.

In short, Sheik is better at setting up her gimps on Ganon, and is much harder to hit than Falco.

Sorry but I just saw this now. I remember reading somewhere that Sheik is Ganon's worst matchup. Is this true?

 

[Dr. Hyde]

from what I've read yeah but I haven't met a Sheik like that yet thankfully.