Trouble fighting Ness

[WiiDude83]

So as you can all tell, Ness is proving to be one of the best characters in Smash 4. For years, he's been a character that hasn't been a threat and many players like me, don't know his match up very well. And I'v been noticing recently I find myself in more and more trouble fighting him. I find myself in many of his grab combos, getting locking into PK fire, and caught in that incredible Fair of his. Even if i try to zone him out with characters like Toon Link, he seems to be able to get in far easier than most of the cast. Can anyone give me a few pointers on what I should be doing against ness?

 

[Unclesatan]

I find that when he grabs you and goes for the downthrow combo, mixing it up between DIing up and towards him, or DIing away from him usually works really well. Particularly the first one, I use consistently on Ness players in FG and I haven't had a Ness chain fairs on me since I figured this out.

 

[VentusNeos]

I mean it depends on how they're playing Ness. If they rely on PK fire a lot, Block it, and punish, as PK has a lot of ending lag. Since you're a Toon Link main, if they come in with grabs, spot dodge to jab, or short hop to nair. I'd say to play an air spacing game. Keep pressure on them, while staying in the air to avoid a PK fire. When they come in, with a aerial or a grab/dash attack, Use Toon Link's fastest moves. Although I don't have much experience with Toon Link, so I'm not sure if this helped too much. Good luck though.

 

[TheTwistedHero]

My main training partner is a Ness, and they have some weaknesses that you can freely exploit at your leisure. The Ness's favorite tools are his projectile game, and his back throw for kills. Do not get grabbed, if you see it coming, try to interrupt it with an air tether or a projectile. Also, stay in his face and do not leave. Ness struggles a bit from high aggression, so get in their face and cave it in. One extra thing is the PK Thunder. They need it. I find that an occasionally smart move is to throw yourself into the thunder head when they are trying to recover. You can still use an up b, and they just plummet down. Hope this helps (BTW, actually a subscriber of yours, Wiidude)

 

[dahuterschuter]

Stay away.

Every single Ness player is looking for the grab at all times, PK Fire is just the set-up. It also happens to have some nice endlag on it for you to give him a smack with your sword before running away again. And if you get them far off stage, follow off and get him by their PK Thunder before it can hit them.

 

[PKBeam]

toon link trying to eat PKT is a bad idea.
throw a bomb at him.

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

As a Shulk main myself with Ness as my pocket, all you need to know to beat players such as myself is to space and have good timing. For example if someone goes for a PK thunder to edgeguard that is primetime for a dash attack or quick forward smash. Also arrows,bombs, and boomerangs should help with your grab problem

 

[Uffe]

I find that when he grabs you and goes for the downthrow combo, mixing it up between DIing up and towards him, or DIing away from him usually works really well. Particularly the first one, I use consistently on Ness players in FG and I haven't had a Ness chain fairs on me since I figured this out.

DI only works so much against Ness' down throw to aerial set ups. I've noticed that most people will DI upward now and I'll still follow up with an up air or suspended forward air, still catching them.

My main training partner is a Ness, and they have some weaknesses that you can freely exploit at your leisure. The Ness's favorite tools are his projectile game, and his back throw for kills. Do not get grabbed, if you see it coming, try to interrupt it with an air tether or a projectile. Also, stay in his face and do not leave. Ness struggles a bit from high aggression, so get in their face and cave it in. One extra thing is the PK Thunder. They need it. I find that an occasionally smart move is to throw yourself into the thunder head when they are trying to recover. You can still use an up b, and they just plummet down. Hope this helps (BTW, actually a subscriber of yours, Wiidude)

Ness' projectile against Toon Link is almost useless because he has better zoning tools which make it hard for Ness to reach him. PK Fire is escapable because Toon Link is a light character. An opponent not on the ground is no less susceptible against KO options. If Ness can't get a grab, he's still got up air, neutral air, back air, and forward air. Two of which KO, and two of which are potential killers. If an opponent is in the face of Ness, he can use his neutral air which knocks back the opponent. He can use this in the air or as an out of shield option. Jumping into the head of PK Thunder is actually a bad idea. PK Thunder goes through characters at the start up, so you'll most likely end up getting stunned and hit by PK Thunder 2.

As a Shulk main myself with Ness as my pocket, all you need to know to beat players such as myself is to space and have good timing. For example if someone goes for a PK thunder to edgeguard that is primetime for a dash attack or quick forward smash. Also arrows,bombs, and boomerangs should help with your grab problem

I'm not sure what you mean by going in for a dash attack or forward smash against Ness using PK Thunder to edge guard. There is no point in using PK Thunder if your opponent is near and on stage. Bombs get absorbed. And if you're a Ness main who doesn't mind grabbing Bombs and then using PSI Magnet, which lag cancels the moment the explosion starts, then that's not going to be good for Toon Link as that will have only helped Ness.

 

[Uffe]

To the OP, Toon Link practically baits Ness. If you're going to use bombs, use your boomerang or arrows first. Throwing the boomerang at a diagonal angle makes it tougher for Ness to get close, because it creates a double layered wall making that V shape. Toon Link is a lot quicker than Ness as well. I think your problem is is that the Ness' you're fighting either know the match up better or you're using a certain method that they've adapted to, which is no longer working. I fought a Link that was playing spammy and campy as Toon Link, which I don't think is a good option for Link. He was creating a wall of projectile, applying pressure that way and forcing me to approach. He even jumped and fired arrows, making it that much more difficult for me to get close. The first two matches were close, but the third match I had with him, I had figured him out and used the lag behind his projectile game as my advantage to deal damage on him. That was the match I did the best on. So again, the Ness' you're fighting either know the match up, or are adapting to your play style. I'd imagine that's what's happening to you.

I've noticed that all but one aerial attack have the least amount of lag for Toon Link, and that's his neutral air. Toon Link's back air is a good kill move, no doubt. If you catch Ness off stage, you can go for a back air, even a forward air, and kill him. You can try to disrupt his PK Thunder with your arrows if he's not recovering low enough. If he is recovering below the stage level, you may want to go for a bomb, though that might bring him back up. Even then, doing so may allow you to throw in a smash attack. If Ness is approaching you from the air, you can shield grab him and punish him that way. I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually. I can't stand fighting Toon Link because of his projectile and speed, and I still have trouble against him.

 

[Unclesatan]

DI only works so much against Ness' down throw to aerial set ups. I've noticed that most people will DI upward now and I'll still follow up with an up air or suspended forward air, still catching them.

You're right, which is why you have to condition them with DI upward then DI away and down if you get grabbed again

I try not to get grabbed during fights with Ness though, so there's that too

 

[ilysm]

I actually believe that a truly godlike Tink can throw his boomerang at just such an angle that it neutralizes the PKT1 bolt on hit. So make of that what you will. (Will a bomb halt Ness's PKT2 momentum? I know weird stuff like Elwind does.)

But the thing about most Ness players is that the flowchart is so ingrained in their minds that usually they literally will never go for a grab unless they hit PK Fire. So practice shielding and punishing, which shouldn't be too hard. It has a bit of endlag. Also practice DI'ing out if you do get hit. If through all that they get the down throw, generally you should DI above them to avoid the fair unless they catch on and start uairing you. Then mix it up. People get this idea that "there has to be a way out of his fair, there has to be a way out of his dthrow" and that's kind of a misconception. They're good combo tools. They're so good because they're so reliable. At some percents there won't really be much you can to at all to not get hit by them, and you can really only minimize the damage so far once you've been hit/gotten grabbed. The key lies mainly in refining your game before that point, when your opponent is still trying to land a PK Fire, or get a grab. Planning for what to do once you get hit takes a backseat to planning to not get hit (*isai face*).

 

[Super Smash Fanatic]

I'm not sure what you mean by going in for a dash attack or forward smash against Ness using PK Thunder to edge guard. There is no point in using PK Thunder if your opponent is near and on stage. Bombs get absorbed. And if you're a Ness main who doesn't mind grabbing Bombs and then using PSI Magnet, which lag cancels the moment the explosion starts, then that's not going to be good for Toon Link as that will have only helped Ness.[/quote]

Go on youtube and search
S@X - 6WX (Sonic) Vs. LoF | NAKAT (Ness) SSB4 Winners Quarters - Smash 4 Wii U
and go to 1:45 to see what i'm talking about, it sonic and not toon link but the idea still aplies