Training Your Palutena Amiibo?

[Re4gNarsil]

Hey, it's not exactly a discussion about the character per say, but this seemed the best place for this topic. Now that some - or many - of us have gotten access to the Palutena amiibo I was wondering what strategies people are using to train her that are having great results, and what kind of moves they are trying to teach her that are or aren't working.

Myself, I REALLY wanted to teach mine how to consistently do a hallehoohaw as well as my most complex combo strings since CPUs can develope frame perfect reacts and such, but unfortunately my amiibo seems to have a hard time grasping the appropriate times to use Lightweight, and often times just goes for a standard up-air or up-smash. In addition, the AI seems to struggle with longer combos like d-throw into n-air into u-air. Anyone having better luck, or are those shortcomings to be expected?

I DO love some other things my amiibo does though thanks to mimicking my style, like jabs into follow-ups like grabs or tilts, good use of all aerials, and she isn't afraid to chase you down and get in your face. Thanks to training against several top-tier characters on multiple stages she seems really well balanced, but I'd still like to see some more Lightweight stuff. Any ideas welcome!

 

[Maraphy]

I DO love some other things my amiibo does though thanks to mimicking my style, like jabs into follow-ups like grabs or tilts, good use of all aerials, and she isn't afraid to chase you down and get in your face.

I knew that they could learn to use certain moves more often (while my friend trained his villager he ONLY used the tree, and as a result the amiibo would use the tree more often), I didn't think they were actually smart though lol. Maybe I'll try training mine at some point and post my findings

 

[SonicNKnux]

I have mine, but I can't use her on my old 3DS yet. That NFC reader comes out in September, right?

 

[Re4gNarsil]

I have mine, but I can't use her on my old 3DS yet. That NFC reader comes out in September, right?

I believe that's right.

Alright, I found out a few things, although perhaps this is nothing new in which case remember I've never researched the best way to train amiibos and this is my first time training one. I trained my amiibo up to level 50 multiple times, but kept starting over due to wanting to try different tactics to see how well they work.

First off, if your amiibo will definitely pick up on your habits and tendencies, and if you want to see particular moves used more use them a lot. A tip I recommend for teaching kill moves is when they're between levels 1 and 6 or so give them a handicap of 100 or 125 percent and just keep using a few kill moves (in my case b-air and u-air) over and over again. This will ingrain in them the knowledge that these moves are deadly at higher percents.

After that keep using your best combos and setups over and over until they reach level 15 or so, at which time keep using them but also give your amiibo the chance to combo you as well to allow them to figure out how and when to perform strings; give them a little encouragement when needed. For instance, if I'm at 110 percent sometimes I purposefully jump over my Palutena amiibo until she jumps and u-airs me.

Something I find frustrating is even though I rarely use smash attacks due to their risk my amiibo seems to start using them far too much automatically at level 30 or so, but I think if you get good at avoiding them and punishing your amiibo for it they'll decrease how often they use them.

In conclusion, I'll say I wish the AI of the amiibo could be better in some areas, but they are cool and can learn quite a bit actually. My amiibo has performed some combos on me that genuinely impressed me, giving me some new tricks for the future. I'd like to hear what others have learned, and look forward to continuing my amiibo's training.

 

[Underhill]

I believe that's right.

Alright, I found out a few things, although perhaps this is nothing new in which case remember I've never researched the best way to train amiibos and this is my first time training one. I trained my amiibo up to level 50 multiple times, but kept starting over due to wanting to try different tactics to see how well they work.

First off, if your amiibo will definitely pick up on your habits and tendencies, and if you want to see particular moves used more use them a lot. A tip I recommend for teaching kill moves is when they're between levels 1 and 6 or so give them a handicap of 100 or 125 percent and just keep using a few kill moves (in my case b-air and u-air) over and over again. This will ingrain in them the knowledge that these moves are deadly at higher percents.

After that keep using your best combos and setups over and over until they reach level 15 or so, at which time keep using them but also give your amiibo the chance to combo you as well to allow them to figure out how and when to perform strings; give them a little encouragement when needed. For instance, if I'm at 110 percent sometimes I purposefully jump over my Palutena amiibo until she jumps and u-airs me.

Something I find frustrating is even though I rarely use smash attacks due to their risk my amiibo seems to start using them far too much automatically at level 30 or so, but I think if you get good at avoiding them and punishing your amiibo for it they'll decrease how often they use them.

In conclusion, I'll say I wish the AI of the amiibo could be better in some areas, but they are cool and can learn quite a bit actually. My amiibo has performed some combos on me that genuinely impressed me, giving me some new tricks for the future. I'd like to hear what others have learned, and look forward to continuing my amiibo's training.

I might try your way of training my Palutena amiibo because its very hard to train her the way that I wanted.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

I might try your way of training my Palutena amiibo because its very hard to train her the way that I wanted.

Okay, I found something else: having your amiibo train against a few different fighters like Sheik helps amiibo become more balanced, but at the same time she seems to become a little less like myself and more... average? I mean, when I always had it Palutena vs Palutena she was in the air a lot and constantly throwing out f-airs and b-airs and such, but after dueling against a few other characters (going from level 40 to 46) became a bit more grounded.

I might start over and keep it to just mirror matches in order to avoid that, but for now I'll leave her at level 50 and see if I can't help her re-learn what she knew before. Another option might be having your amiibo train on other characters earlier like say level 30 to 36 that way you have 14 levels to ingrain in them everything you want them to know, as opposed to just 4 like I had. It also depends on what tactics you want her to have; I prefer minimal smashes, and lots of aerials instead.

 

[Underhill]

Okay, I found something else: having your amiibo train against a few different fighters like Sheik helps amiibo become more balanced, but at the same time she seems to become a little less like myself and more... average? I mean, when I always had it Palutena vs Palutena she was in the air a lot and constantly throwing out f-airs and b-airs and such, but after dueling against a few other characters (going from level 40 to 46) became a bit more grounded.

I might start over and keep it to just mirror matches in order to avoid that, but for now I'll leave her at level 50 and see if I can't help her re-learn what she knew before. Another option might be having your amiibo train on other characters earlier like say level 30 to 36 that way you have 14 levels to ingrain in them everything you want them to know, as opposed to just 4 like I had. It also depends on what tactics you want her to have; I prefer minimal smashes, and lots of aerials instead.

Palutena: Custom moveset
B: default
Side-B: Super Soinc
Up-B: Jump Guide
Down-B: Lightweight

Well, usually when I get her to level 40(or 39), I pin her against some characters so she can be prepare to face my amiibos on 50 when I do teams with her. Yeah, my Palutena amiibo always go to the air and throws out her f-airs, n-airs, and b-airs so I keep juggling her, hoping she understands that she can't be in the air all on the time and got to mix it up with her ground game. She doesn't use her dash attack, even when I kill her with it. Well for Rolls and air dodges, there's nothing you can do about it since they're based from CPUs XD; However atleast they can perfect shield and use their Out of shield options which is something. Well, your right about her usage of smash attacks, I'll have to get her to use them less and use other moves to avoid being punished and depending on them as her main kill options.

Her Customs are a pain for me to teach her; Jump Guide, I have to keep edgeguarding her so she realize that going for the ledge isn't always a option. Also, she doesn't seem to use her f-air or b-air out of Jump Guide when she uses it on stage. Super Sonic, She doesn't try to combo anything out of it, but just hit me and sometimes, set up for a kill with her up-smash. Lightweight, I'm still working on that part. If you have your Palutena the same custom moveset, then I hope you have better luck training her customs than me.

Ever train your amiibo to use her Ledgeguarding, Zoning, and Spacing?

 

[Re4gNarsil]

Palutena: Custom moveset
B: default
Side-B: Super Soinc
Up-B: Jump Guide
Down-B: Lightweight

Well, usually when I get her to level 40(or 39), I pin her against some characters so she can be prepare to face my amiibos on 50 when I do teams with her. Yeah, my Palutena amiibo always go to the air and throws out her f-airs, n-airs, and b-airs so I keep juggling her, hoping she understands that she can't be in the air all on the time and got to mix it up with her ground game. She doesn't use her dash attack, even when I kill her with it. Well for Rolls and air dodges, there's nothing you can do about it since they're based from CPUs XD; However atleast they can perfect shield and use their Out of shield options which is something. Well, your right about her usage of smash attacks, I'll have to get her to use them less and use other moves to avoid being punished and depending on them as her main kill options.

Her Customs are a pain for me to teach her; Jump Guide, I have to keep edgeguarding her so she realize that going for the ledge isn't always a option. Also, she doesn't seem to use her f-air or b-air out of Jump Guide when she uses it on stage. Super Sonic, She doesn't try to combo anything out of it, but just hit me and sometimes, set up for a kill with her up-smash. Lightweight, I'm still working on that part. If you have your Palutena the same custom moveset, then I hope you have better luck training her customs than me.

Ever train your amiibo to use her Ledgeguarding, Zoning, and Spacing?

I know from experience and recent online reading that there are some things embedded in an amiibos code that will always be there, equal to that of a level 9 CPU. I'm probably going to try re-training mine again to see just how deep this truly goes by teaching her exclusively with Palutena as opposed to a mix in the later levels like I typically do. I have had decent luck in getting her to drop or at least lessen some bad habits like risky smashes and rolls, but not completely like you said.

As far as customs and edgeguarding, my amiibo uses superspeed decently well, but doesn't combo with it like I tried showing her; she's learned to use Lightweight pretty good too, but sometimes uses it at weird times. Jumpglide is honestly not a great move for an amiibo, since they recover with it well enough but won't do much else with it. And edgeguarding is another reason I might want to restart and retrain my amiibo, since from levels 25 to 40 I had her dropping off and using n-air or even b-air to kill your opponents before they could get back to the stage, but by level 45 or so that seemed to go mostly away. Now she just tries to up-smash usually.

Again, I am impressed by some of the combos and tactics amiibos learn, but there are some areas that definitely could have been done better; all in all I think if you do well training them they will pick up many of your strategies; another trick I've been trying is only saving amiibo data when I feel I had a good battle with her, and not saving when something went wrong or I messed up badly. Might seem cheesy, but if it saves time I'll do it.

 

[Underhill]

Well, the same thing happen to me. As soon as my amiibo hit level 50, she barely uses her b-air and just use up-smash and other smashes as her main kills. Yeah, its not getting rid of bad habits and try to make her mix things up. Rolls and air-dodges like I said, there's nothing you can do about it because no matter how many times I punish those(air dodges mostly), they still won't learn from their mistakes.

For Super speed, at least she uses it as a kill set up so thats good news. For Jump glide, yeah I'm going to change it back to Teleport when I reset her. Lightweight she does decent, I guess.

Same thing, I wish that she uses down throw to n-air, back-air, and up-air. I have been saving data that too in case if she doesn't fight right or if I'm missing something and should had teach her that strategy or something. They should learn your by now after teaching them current things. Basic stuff yeah, but reverse moves(F-smash, f-tile, and grab), fox trot and dance trot, she should learn those too.

 

[Re4gNarsil]

Well, the same thing happen to me. As soon as my amiibo hit level 50, she barely uses her b-air and just use up-smash and other smashes as her main kills. Yeah, its not getting rid of bad habits and try to make her mix things up. Rolls and air-dodges like I said, there's nothing you can do about it because no matter how many times I punish those(air dodges mostly), they still won't learn from their mistakes.

For Super speed, at least she uses it as a kill set up so thats good news. For Jump glide, yeah I'm going to change it back to Teleport when I reset her. Lightweight she does decent, I guess.

Same thing, I wish that she uses down throw to n-air, back-air, and up-air. I have been saving data that too in case if she doesn't fight right or if I'm missing something and should had teach her that strategy or something. They should learn your by now after teaching them current things. Basic stuff yeah, but reverse moves(F-smash, f-tile, and grab), fox trot and dance trot, she should learn those too.

All in all, it seems you can implement some nice techniques into your amiibo (like plenty of b-airs in neutral for instance), but the ingrained ai that automatically kicks in seems too strong to be overwritten as much as I'd like, plus the learning abilities are a little lacking since the ai can't pick up on combo strings outside of relatively basic ones. I'm still finding it fun to train them, but don't expect too much.

 

[Underhill]

All in all, it seems you can implement some nice techniques into your amiibo (like plenty of b-airs in neutral for instance), but the ingrained ai that automatically kicks in seems too strong to be overwritten as much as I'd like, plus the learning abilities are a little lacking since the ai can't pick up on combo strings outside of relatively basic ones. I'm still finding it fun to train them, but don't expect too much.

Yeah, It is fun to train them, but its too bad that they don't learn to use fox&dance trots, pivot movement, combo strings, roll less, and be less predictable. They can perfect-shield and use oos options, air dodge(perfectly when they see you trying to go for a attack), and give you less pummels after grabbing them which is good news.

 

[MeteorSpike]

I tried to get mine to use Superspeed for combos (such as into BAir's) and mixups (like grabbing or feinting/dodging out of Superspeed).
It seems like amiibo's treat their B moves/custom moves exactly the way a CPU would, and the only difference is that an amiibo can develop a more complex "frequency" with which to use those specials, instead of using them explicitly as a response to a situation like CPU's.
If this is true, it's quite unfortunate indeed.
I wanted to have an amiibo with Reticle, Superspeed, Jump Glide, and Lightweight, but after showing no evident signs of "learning" how to apply any these, much less properly, I had to resort to having it use Flame, Reflect, Warp, and Firework.