Tournaments.

[Proctology]

Now, before I begin, I want to let you know that the opinions expressed in the following paragraphs may be offensive to some. If you are easily offended by healthy criticism, please, read on, I'm dying to see your reaction, and I'm dying to laugh at you as you grasp desperately at straws.

I have absolutely no problems with tournaments. None whatsoever. I have no quarrels with a few people getting together for some healthy competition, bravado of skill, what have you. What I can't stand, is when people feel disadvantaged and alter the game in order to benefit themselves. There is absolutely No excuse, alibi, or rebuttal for this kind of behavior. If I may use an analogy, it is like a Soccer player showing up for a big tournament and asking the referee to alter the rules so that he can use his skills (that require the expulsion of said rules to execute) so that he can win the game. That is what you, the Tourney***s, seem to believe in the hivemind known as Smash Boards. You seem to believe that the stages are "Out to get you" and "Disadvantage" you. This is ********. Stages disadvantage everyone equally. It is learning how to evade being disadvantaged that requires true skill, not tapping R down and Y in rapid succession. An inebriated Simian could do that with very little effort. What's ironic, is that that isn't even my main point. Your attitudes are so ridiculously elitist it makes babies cry. You are CRIPPLING the game. You are making it your own creation, and shunning any other styles of play from your claustrophobic (and quite frankly) bigoted rules and regulations. You actually ban characters and stages, destroying any depth the game once had. If I see ONE more round of Fox v.s. Fox, Final Destination, I may have disembowel one of you with a wooden spoon and leave you to bleed in the moonlight.

The afro mentioned aren't even what makes you unbearable. It's the fact that the second your gimmicky little game play mechanic is assaulted, you immediately begin to grasp at straws and are quick to draw ridiculous accusations. You guys are worse than furries in this respect, and everyone shares a unanimous and seething hatred for furries. That's how the rest of the Smash community sees you. Like furries. And it's not just because of that. You go out of your way to push your bigoted views on people in real life, which makes you kind of like a Jehovah's Witness. Yes, you're all a bunch of Furry Jehovah's Witnesses, going door to door pushing your ability to alter game rules to conform to your terrible and mal-formed game play strategies so that you may compete at your elitist tournaments, where only such strategies are admitted.

 

[ivootjes(nr18)]

I'll moneymatch ya, we'll play any stage, i'll be fox every game, now lets see if you can ever ever ever win on a stage like hyrule temple.

And in case you don't get it, fox is horribly broken on most of the stages. That's why some of the stages are banned, and none of the charachters is banned, where did you get that from.

Fox vs Fox on final destination actually doesn't happen that much, if all stages were allowed fox would be the only playable charachter in the game, THEN you would see a lot of fox ditto's, now some other charachters are playable too.

One last note, if you don't like the rules at a tournament you can do two things
1. Don't go to said tournament, let people have their fun without someone crying that the game should be played your way.
2. Host your own tournament with your own rules. Good luck.

 

[Crizthakidd]

exactly. make your own tournaments and have every stage available. have fun the way u like it. some of us may not come just because getting hit by lazers once then camped an entire match or just gettinged wall shined infitely isnt too cool. so you do what u want to

 

[petrie911]

What I can't stand, is when people feel disadvantaged and alter the game in order to benefit themselves. There is absolutely No excuse, alibi, or rebuttal for this kind of behavior.

The game allows you to choose which stage to play on and turn stages off the random stage selector. I don't see how choosing which stages to play on and turning stages off the random stage selector is altering the game.

The afro mentioned aren't even what makes you unbearable.

When exactly was an afro mentioned?

 

[The Real Inferno]

Technically speaking the stages -are- out to get you. That's why they are hazards.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

I myslf think that banning stages may be a bit much--BUT I see what people mean about Fox just spamming lasers, out of harms way, and what not... And faste characters making one kil, then running the rest of the match (I'm mainly talking about temple), but aren't there ways around that? Like just implementing penalties for stalling and such?

Anyways, I've never really been toa tournament, so I can't exactly talk.
And caracters are banned?! Now that IS going overboard, if it's true!!!

 

[DeliciousCake]

Oh **** guys, someone call the cops! People are playing with non-default settings on their games!

Additional Tournament Rules


Capcom vs SNK 2

* Ultimate Rugal, Super Akuma, Evil Ryu, and Evil Iori are not allowed in tournament

Marvel vs Capcom 2

* Game Settings: Speed, Turbo 1, Damage 2, 2/3 Games
* Deadbody infinites are allowed to gain a positional advantage, but not to delay the game.

Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection

* Game Settings: Versus Mode, 3/5 Rounds, 2/3 Games, Guard Damage Off, Round Time 60 Seconds
* Jinpachi is not allowed in tournament play.

Street Fighter III: 3rd Strike

* Game Settings: Versus Mode, 2/3 Games, 2/3 Rounds, Round Time 99 Seconds
* Gill is not allowed in tournament play.

Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo

* Game Settings: Versus Mode, Turbo 3, 2/3 Rounds, 2/3 Games
* Akuma is not allowed in tournament play.

Super Smash Brothers Brawl

* First game of a match to be played on Smashville. Players can decide to play on any map, if both players agree.
* Excessive stalling or abusing terrain to not engage the enemy is prohibited, and can be enforced by a tournament director only. This will result in a loss of the match.
* 3 Stock, 5 Min timer, 2/3 Games
* Items on medium spawn
* Sudden Death will not decide the outcome of the game
* Allowed Items: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Franklin Badge.
* Banned Stages: New Pork City, Hyrule Temple, Warioware, Spear Pillar, Flat Zone 2, Original Mario Brothers, Mushroomy Kingdom, 75m, Summit, Rumble Falls

Who do these people think they are?! Playing with rules like these! They all deserve to be shot for agreeing on playing games the way they want to play them!

 

[Frames]

If I see ONE more round of Fox v.s. Fox, Final Destination, I may have disembowel one of you with a wooden spoon and leave you to bleed in the moonlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-MH8crKsyA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5IfmOKlLRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAC-flwH-As
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyCb5BsM1hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzNcYpyX8wA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8_Z-EwH_ZQ (lol at description)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDVp5ZFwF0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQDv5EQaYmQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YozDtTqAVuo

Fox vs Fox on final destination actually doesn't happen that much

Actually yea, there are more common ones, but fox dittos on fd are tooo good.

 

[pockyD]

The gamestop tournament, sanctioned by nintendo, had a far more restricting ruleset than any tournament run by "tourney***s" (battlefield only, starting characters only)

rules are implemented in order to encourage diversity, not discourage it

if people were playing on hyrule, for example, would there be any reason not to play fox, shoot some lasers, and run around in a circle? then you have fox only, hyrule temple which is infinitely less interesting than fox only, final destination

 

[Zonderion]

Proctology,

I understand where you are coming from. The game was created the way it was for a reason. Why alter the game from its normal play?

Here's my first problem with your post:
Why the Hell do you care?

My 2nd problem:
The creators of the game created the game to the best of their ability. There are always going to be "bugs" in the game that creates an unfair advantage for one player or the other. So there are two ways to solve that delimma:

• Everyone chooses the same character and the same stage so that the "bugs" will not give anyone an advantage. But we know you don't like repetitiveness from the fox vs fox on FD. So that wouldn't work.
  
• Place rules that restrict the game to a point where those "bugs" won't give anyone an advantage over another. But we know you don't like that either, simply from your post.

What I can't stand, is when people feel disadvantaged and alter the game in order to benefit themselves. There is absolutely No excuse, alibi, or rebuttal for this kind of behavior.

Here's your rebuttal:

The reason people feel disadvantaged is because they choose a character that they want to play with. That is the beauty of Super Smash Brothers. There is a wide variety of characters to play with and and even more wide variety of playing styles to play with. But choosing this method of game style creates disadvantages in itself. The only way to avoid this would be to have one character and one stage. BORING! You can't have a variety of playing styles with out one style having an advantage over others. So these rules, while not always the best, do create situations where people can play a wide variety of playing styles and still creating the most equal playing field possible.

Stages disadvantage everyone equally.

That's a big fat NO. To say that a stage disadvantages everyone equally is just ignorant. The disadvantages are subject to the characters people use on the stages, not subject to the stages themselves. You are correct that the stages impose the same difficulties to each character, but each character handles those difficulties different. That is what creates the disadvantage to some characters, not the stages themselves.
To use a soccer example as you have done:
You've got a guy that has run track his entire life playing soccer on a soccer field, and a fat couch potato playing on the same field. While the field imposes the same difficulty on each player (120 yards from goal line to goal line) The couch potato is at a disadvantage, not because of the field, but because of his own weakness.

The main source of disadvantages lies not solely in the stages, or solely in the characters, but in the combination of the two.

So the stages that haven't been banned are the ones that create the most equal playing field for all the characters.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Delicious Cake, are the actual rules for smash tournies, as of now?
I think that actually seems pretty fair to me.

I mean besides Fox spamming on huge levels like temple--its too big. It can take a long time to K.O. someone, especially if they've got plenty of room--am I right? And since it has cielings, it can get even HARDER to K.O. someone, OR make it even EASIER to K.O. someone depending on the angle that they are sent flying in. Stages like Temple are banned to eliminate these problems, among other things, am I right?

note: Please don't say "duh" or anything like that. I'm not real familiar with tournaments and am using my own logic to think this out.

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

The reason we ban certain stages is because they test different skills than other stages, effectively making them an "different game" than other stages. For example, in Hyrule, if you're good at teching, you can just stay in the Cave of Life forever and never lose a stock if you're good enough. The game becomes a test of who can tech the best. It is a "legitimate game" but is that really what you want to test in a tournament? Why should someone get to win just because they are better at teching? It is a "fair" stage (if you don't count the spamming projectiles and running away), but is it really relevant to testing skill in the game?

Adding Hyrule REMOVES depth from the game because the dominant tactic is incredibly shallow and disjoint from the rest of the game. For similar reasons other stages are banned. There isn't really much other meat to the OP's argument except name-calling and insinuation, so I think this is all that needs to be said.

 

[dudutsai]

do NOT feed the 4chan troll.

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Then why is a stage like Spear Pillar banned? Because you begin to start focusing on avoiding attacks and concentrating on altered game play?

I think spear pillar should be allowed because yes it doesalter game play, but if you have any skill you should b able 2 adapt to it--but what you said makes sense and is a reason to ban spear pillar I suppose.
(directed at hyuga)

 

[HyugaRicdeau]

Well, there are a number of problems with Spear Pillar, but I think the biggest issue is that in (I think) the Palkia scenario, what can happen is the controls get flipped, so left is right and vice versa. Sure you can "adapt" to it, but what's really to be gained by testing how well someone can deal with switching left and right? Why should that have ANY bearing on a tournament victory? It is a skill, for sure, but it's a skill that has absolutely nothing to do with the mechanics of the game. I mean, you could say "if you have skill, you'd be able to adapt to it" about almost absolutely anything. You could make players have to juggle in between each stock. That obviously requires more skill, but who really cares how well you can juggle? Or play with one hand? Or mentally flip left and right at random?

This isn't the end of Spear Pillar's troubles though. The layout of the stage makes it extremely imbalanced towards faster characters. If you do not pick a fast character, your opponent will, and he will just hit-and-run the entire match, and there's nothing you can do to catch him because of the loop-like layout of the stage. It's like trying to catch someone running around a huge tree, except he can also see where YOU are so you can't even mindgame him into getting caught. A stage that practically forces you to pick a small subset of characters to win DECREASES the amount of depth in the game, so it is banned. This is a second reason that Hyrule was also banned (as if it needed help).

However, I'm not against testing skills beyond just winning on FD, but they have to be relevant to the game, and not destroy the metagame to the point that one tactic completely dominates play on a stage. For example, although I personally think Pokemon Stadium 2 should be banned because of the floaty transformation, I think this point is largely a matter of opinion, and I have no problem with a tournament leaving PS2 on as long as they understand the reasoning behind both sides of the issue.

If you want an oversimplified statement of the general philosophy, you could say that players should not have to play 3 fundamentally different games in a tournament set. What is "fundamentally different" of course is a matter of opinion however, and it's almost impossible to quantify "how different" two stages are from one another, so in general we have to argue about what skills are tested on a stage and to what degree, and what if any dominant tactics exist. This can only be done through personal experience while adopting a "play to win" attitude in your testing. It's quite possible to have fun playing on Hyrule (or whatever) when one doesn't care about winning, but that context is completely inappropriate when talking about a tournament ruleset.

 

[KosukeKGA]

If it's someone from 4chan, don't respond to them.

 

[Winston]

I love how he didn't even bother to act like he'll listen to anything we'll say.

Classy.

 

[MattDotZeb]

do Not Feed The 4chan Troll.

This This This This This This This