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Toon Links hardest match up
- Thread starter Negoksai
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Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Robin, Duck Hunt Duo, Yoshi and Samus
PRGN
Smash Cadet
From what i played against, imo: Duckhunt, Falco, Bowser.Jr, Olimar, G&W
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Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Falco huh? That's interesting you would say that. I haven't really played a Falco yet.
Turbopasta
Smash Rookie
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I agree with PRGN that Falco can be a difficult matchup. It's obvious, but it's mainly due to his reflector. Since the hitbox is so big, it's can be hard to punish it with grabs or hits. You can theoretically time your item throw between his animations, but if the Falco is smart they won't be over-reliant on it. Also, it seems that his blaster goes above the Hylian shield, so you can't block it by standing still.
I've had difficulties fighting Ganon before. Sure, you can zone and spam him pretty well, but as long as he hits you eventually, Ganon can eat like 3-4 projectiles and still win the damage trade. I don't have too much experience with TL in Smash 4, so idk what else gives him problems.
What's so hard about Duck Hunt? Can't you just knock his can back to him? Or does he do projectile spam better?
I've had difficulties fighting Ganon before. Sure, you can zone and spam him pretty well, but as long as he hits you eventually, Ganon can eat like 3-4 projectiles and still win the damage trade. I don't have too much experience with TL in Smash 4, so idk what else gives him problems.
What's so hard about Duck Hunt? Can't you just knock his can back to him? Or does he do projectile spam better?
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deech
Smash Cadet
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I've always gotten around the reflectors/counter characters like falco/fox/mario by mixing up throws/fake outs and juke throws. That is, I just jump in as if I'm going to throw the bomb, land, wait until their reflector comes out, then throw.
Good mind games imo, and the person never knows whether they need to reflect or not, so they usually resort to using shields or grabs instead.
Good mind games imo, and the person never knows whether they need to reflect or not, so they usually resort to using shields or grabs instead.
Yackabean
"He's shooting arrows out his butt" ~ Scotland
Ganon wasn't a problem in brawl because he was lol bad.
However he's going to be hard for us this time around just like you said. The trades on stuff he has ridiculous, same applies to Dedede. They both hit like trucks and so does Falcon sometimes and he gets around projectiles like no bother.
The best advice for fighting these 3 is just to not approach. Only go in when the time is right like when they are open. Bowsers different though, he's so big and easy to camp and combo so his trade thing doesn't worry me lol.
Duck Hunt is strange with me. It could even be 50:50 to be honest but here's what I know so far:
Clay Pidgeon stops all of our projectiles.
Can can be deflected back towards Duck Hunt if you hit it or wth a projectile
Duck Hunt's fair is actually a lot more annoying to deal with than I thought.
His ariel game isn't actually that gross from what people say, he has some good range on his ariels.
The camping side of this MU is just going to suck though, almost like Toon Link : Olimar in brawl. It was one of the slowest boring match ups ever.
What to capatalise on is getting around projectiles though, BLC is obviously one of our best tools again so make great use of it.
However he's going to be hard for us this time around just like you said. The trades on stuff he has ridiculous, same applies to Dedede. They both hit like trucks and so does Falcon sometimes and he gets around projectiles like no bother.
The best advice for fighting these 3 is just to not approach. Only go in when the time is right like when they are open. Bowsers different though, he's so big and easy to camp and combo so his trade thing doesn't worry me lol.
Duck Hunt is strange with me. It could even be 50:50 to be honest but here's what I know so far:
Clay Pidgeon stops all of our projectiles.
Can can be deflected back towards Duck Hunt if you hit it or wth a projectile
Duck Hunt's fair is actually a lot more annoying to deal with than I thought.
His ariel game isn't actually that gross from what people say, he has some good range on his ariels.
The camping side of this MU is just going to suck though, almost like Toon Link : Olimar in brawl. It was one of the slowest boring match ups ever.
What to capatalise on is getting around projectiles though, BLC is obviously one of our best tools again so make great use of it.
Cosmic M
Smash Rookie
Sonic can be really difficult if the other person knows what he's doing just because he can move faster than Toon Link, and in more directions than TL can throw his projectiles.
Mario I see as a better matchup because your projectiles are better, and so you can set the pace of the match because Mario's time is taken up dodging your projectiles and sword.
Mario I see as a better matchup because your projectiles are better, and so you can set the pace of the match because Mario's time is taken up dodging your projectiles and sword.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I have an absolutely terrible time with Pacman. Mario and Ganon give me a lot of trouble, too. I can't say I've had much trouble with Rosalina, but maybe the ones I've faced just weren't very good.
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Fangblade
Smash Journeyman
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You must've never been KO'd by Luma before lol. Versus Pacman it helps if you use his Fire Hydrant against him. A 'rang and a smack w/ your sword, three arrows, 'rang throw and two arrows will do the trick. Best to punish his laggy moves like Dash attack/Sspecial.
P.S. Your Hylian shield blocks his projectile key thing.
Cosmic M
Smash Rookie
Ganon shouldn't be much of a problem. His moves tend to have a long animation which makes it easy to punish him if you dodge out of the way. The basic mindset against a Ganon is that he can kill you at any time, but you can also easily kill him. This means you have to be careful, but also that you should always be playing with the upper hand. As TL, your recovery is 100x better than Ganondorf's so try and bring the fight to the edges of the stage. Watch out for that move where he grabs you and throws both of you down, if you aren't careful he can win the match that way if you are tied with 1 stock remaining.
deech
Smash Cadet
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I initially had trouble with sonic until I realized I should just stop short hopping in this matchup because sonic always ends up just slightly above it and my aerials won't reach (unless I'm using u-air).
Basic positioning vs a Sonic would be above him. Boomerangs and bombs mostly for spacing/poking.
Blueye
Smash Rookie
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How does TL fare against a ROB? Personally i have a lot of trouble with Rob in general. He out ranges on the projectile department and has better range on his aerials. I feel it is also due to me not shielding enough though. any advice to improve there?
deech
Smash Cadet
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ILJ
Smash Apprentice
After playing every match up with top players representing their character i believe i have the answer.
In no order:
Bowser Jr.
ZSS
Falco
Sonic
Yoshi
Olimar
Duck Hunt
Bam.
In no order:
Bowser Jr.
ZSS
Falco
Sonic
Yoshi
Olimar
Duck Hunt
Bam.
BrianXLink
Smash Rookie
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Based on personal experience Fox and Ness.. Fox especially I don't think I have been able to beat a legit Fox player yet lol. Also if im at %80-%90 Ness's grab throws me into death instantly.
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D
Deleted member
Guest
I'm curious why a lot of people name Sonic as one of TL's hardest match-ups. Personally I haven't had much trouble with him, but I also haven't played with many Sonics.
I'd assume it's because, like Captain Falcon, Sonic has the ability to quickly rush down and get all up in Toon Link's face, causing him to lose some stage control. Being Sonic, the fastest running character on the roster, he can even do this while we're in the middle of pulling out our bombs; although, I'm sure there are some stages that might even out the playing field a little bit more.
Fangblade
Smash Journeyman
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1. They can hit you with Uspecial whenever you recover.
2. His role is insane
3. Kills us earlier than we do him.
4.His Uspecial is a great escape tool, and he can use aerials out of it.
these are just a few things I've noticed at the top of my head. But basically we've got to chase him around or else he'll have free rain to rush us down. His speed is very problematic for us.
alightbulb
Banned via Warnings
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hello balh blah blah
I'm going to assume (for your sake) that you're trying to get 10 posts so you can post links. Regardless, it is my duty to inform you that this would be considered spam and can be infracted. Consider this your verbal warning.
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LunarWingCloud
Smash Lord
Mario isn't too bad, but Sonic can be tricky, especially because he is so damn fast he can outmanuever Toon Link and most of his attacks.
ILJ
Smash Apprentice
Sheik is definitely a very hard MU.
GeekModeOffset
Smash Rookie
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- Hyper2386
I used to think ROB and Samus were the hardest matchups for me, but after reading about someone suggesting Bomb OoS it became way easier for those two. Not I just power shield their projectiles and stay out of grab/dash grab range.
One of the worst matches I've had so far was with a Bowser Jr.
One of the worst matches I've had so far was with a Bowser Jr.
ultrament2
Smash Cadet
****ING ROB
That is all.
That is all.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Ganon. Literally anybody I've fought who knows how to use Ganon has absolutely bodied me with him. Dumb Flame Choke then down kick combo spam all over the place. D8<
It would be beneficial to learn how to tech the Flame Choke.
MapleSyrup
Smash Rookie
The hardest matchups for me would be R.O.B., Little Mac, Rosalina&Luma, Sonic, Diddy Kong, Sheik, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi. Not in any order. :3
Theis
Smash Cadet
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- pinpong000
I'll have to argue toonlink's hardest matchups are: Lucario, Samus, Yoshi, Fox, Sheik, Rosalina, Diddy*, Villager*
Lucario: Against a patient player the matchup against toonlink becomes increasingly in lucario's favor. concidering Aura sphere at full rage and aura can eat all of toonlink's projectiles and toon link isnt known for killing below 100% which gives lucario the kill power to just destroy anything toon link does to him. [25/75]
Samus: The same reason toon link suffers from lucario except her in rage is less threatening than lucario in rage/aura. [35/65]
Yoshi: Yoshi has the air mobility to get around all of toon links projectiles and he has an exceptionally good boxing game which makes things harder for toonlink once yoshi is in. [35/65]
Fox: with fox's speed and his option to reflect projectiles makes it hard for toon link to really apply pressure. and once he's in he'll just jab combo you until you're dead. [40/60]
Sheik: She has the mobility to just punish you for even pulling out a bomb. your zoning game has to pretty much be on point to deal with sheik. [40/60]
Rosalina: A smart rosalina will not just stand there and gravity well projectiles like its free because we can easily bait the **** out of that. but gravity well is still a powerful tool against toon link since he doesnt have much options left if she spaces herself correctly. Espectially when it comes to custom rosa with the luma warp and long star bits. [45/55]
custom Diddy: he has the potential to banana into the powerful upB which kills you at 70% on top of all of diddy's moves are still really good. [45/65]
custom Villager: The slow lloyd is a garenteed wall against all of toon link's projectiles and if the counter sappling is out, that gives villager the mixup option of running up and grabbing you while you're in the lloyd or anti-airing you with a fair if you choose to jump over/out of it. villager's pocket is also a powerful tool against toon link especially if he grabs say, a boomerang. The explosive balloons are also hard to deal with simply because trading with it is typically not in toon link's favor, and even if you use a bomb to pop both balloons villagers will start to look for that option since its the only viable option to deal with it. [40/60]
Lucario: Against a patient player the matchup against toonlink becomes increasingly in lucario's favor. concidering Aura sphere at full rage and aura can eat all of toonlink's projectiles and toon link isnt known for killing below 100% which gives lucario the kill power to just destroy anything toon link does to him. [25/75]
Samus: The same reason toon link suffers from lucario except her in rage is less threatening than lucario in rage/aura. [35/65]
Yoshi: Yoshi has the air mobility to get around all of toon links projectiles and he has an exceptionally good boxing game which makes things harder for toonlink once yoshi is in. [35/65]
Fox: with fox's speed and his option to reflect projectiles makes it hard for toon link to really apply pressure. and once he's in he'll just jab combo you until you're dead. [40/60]
Sheik: She has the mobility to just punish you for even pulling out a bomb. your zoning game has to pretty much be on point to deal with sheik. [40/60]
Rosalina: A smart rosalina will not just stand there and gravity well projectiles like its free because we can easily bait the **** out of that. but gravity well is still a powerful tool against toon link since he doesnt have much options left if she spaces herself correctly. Espectially when it comes to custom rosa with the luma warp and long star bits. [45/55]
custom Diddy: he has the potential to banana into the powerful upB which kills you at 70% on top of all of diddy's moves are still really good. [45/65]
custom Villager: The slow lloyd is a garenteed wall against all of toon link's projectiles and if the counter sappling is out, that gives villager the mixup option of running up and grabbing you while you're in the lloyd or anti-airing you with a fair if you choose to jump over/out of it. villager's pocket is also a powerful tool against toon link especially if he grabs say, a boomerang. The explosive balloons are also hard to deal with simply because trading with it is typically not in toon link's favor, and even if you use a bomb to pop both balloons villagers will start to look for that option since its the only viable option to deal with it. [40/60]
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ILJ
Smash Apprentice
Its one thing to have a hard match-up and another to know the match up and play it better than your opponent. At low levels characters who have match ups in favor of them should win the majority, at high levels it applies if the person knows how to play the match up better. Anyone fighting toon link should know the match up to beat us. We are a different ball game for a lot of people. Especially those who do not have solid tink practice, you should be dogging them.
You can continue this discussion in the official match-up thread.
http://smashboards.com/threads/toon-link-match-up-thread.378737/
http://smashboards.com/threads/toon-link-match-up-thread.378737/
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