To those who watched the Obama children speech/read the transcript....

[Deathcarter]

Was it like the conservatives hyped it to be, an opprotunity to indoctronate the kids? Do you think it promoted more of the individualist mentality that is intergral to America's culture or more of that collectivist attitude Obama has propagated on earlier occasions? Did you actually go through the whole thing without blanking out/logging out in disgust?



For me, it reaffirmed Obama's campaign to instill a collectivist mindset into us. Not to say the transcript was actually bad, but he did emphasized doing good in school and developing into good adults as a means of ultimately contributing to the country, as opposed to developing into strong adults in order to be competitively viable and thrive in the world.

Ironically, the comparision of Obama to Hitler, at least in the regards to developing a strong, self-sacrificing youth as opposed to a strong, independent/free thinking youth would have actually held merit if they said he was a collectivist as opposed to a socialist. >_>


By the way, this historically factual error on Obama's part actually made me chuckle: "It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation." Silly Obama.

 

[Scott!]

I haven't read the speech, and didn't hear it, so I don't know the context, but what exactly makes that quote wrong? The leaders of the American Revolution were mostly of the well-educated class. 250 years ago was 1759, which is when a lot of the revolutionaries could have been in school.

 

[BBQTV]

its just what mom and dad says stay in school blah blah blah

 

[Deathcarter]

I haven't read the speech, and didn't hear it, so I don't know the context, but what exactly makes that quote wrong? The leaders of the American Revolution were mostly of the well-educated class. 250 years ago was 1759, which is when a lot of the revolutionaries could have been in school.

That may be true, but context did infer that he implying to children that there was a public school system 250 years. Consider the fact that much of the fighting force for the colonies obviously would have consisted of lower class white men who did not have an education for the most part and that younger elementary children would naturally assume that at least white people were equal with each other given the likelyhood that they would have applied their priveledges to those of the people of that time.

Though you are right that Obama, technically, was factually correct, if somewhat vague.

 

[manhunter098]

Death, you need to also consider his audience when you criticize his choice of words. Talking to kindergartners necessitates simplifying the situation. While you can say that he may have implied a public school system existed then, for younger students, they would be clueless as to what a public school system even means, to them, they are just in school, being told what to do by teachers, and trying to learn.

The point still stands though that in a public or private school, getting at minimum a high school education in this country is now extremely important, Obama delivered this speech to exactly that purpose though, to encourage children to become successful in the context of our society, which means they need to stay in school to do that.

 

[GALE 14]

its just what mom and dad says stay in school blah blah blah

but if you go to shool every day you'll
never be a good brawler
just want to say that




ps:it was a joke
don't worry

 

[Jane]

By the way, this historically factual error on Obama's part actually made me chuckle: "It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation." Silly Obama.

Though you are right that Obama, technically, was factually correct, if somewhat vague.

......lulz

 

[BBQTV]

but if you go to shool every day you'll
never be a good brawler
just want to say that




ps:it was a joke
don't worry

never explain the joke

 

[CRASHiC]

Death, would you say that Ronald Regan was programing children when he spoke to the children? What about George Bush Senior? What makes these speaches so different than Obama's?
There is no basis for the programing minds argument.

2ndly, comparing Hitler to a socialist is a horrible, misinformed comparision. The Facist took power because the Europeans were afraid of the socialist parties taking over their countries. Facist were anti socialism. They favored strong government in social rights and moral code but no government in economics unless necessary. Hitler came to power in part because of fear of socialist, so comparing Hitler and socialist is like saying someone hopes to become a judge in the same way OJ did.
A little historical factual error.

I can understand and have a conversation about logical, founded ideas about Obama's presidency, but what I can not let go by is fear mongering lies about the Obama presidency based on little fact or logic.

 

[Jane]

beautiful, CRASHiC, just beautiful.

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Death, would you say that Ronald Regan was programing children when he spoke to the children? What about George Bush Senior? What makes these speaches so different than Obama's?
There is no basis for the programing minds argument.

2ndly, comparing Hitler to a socialist is a horrible, misinformed comparision. The Facist took power because the Europeans were afraid of the socialist parties taking over their countries. Facist were anti socialism. They favored strong government in social rights and moral code but no government in economics unless necessary. Hitler came to power in part because of fear of socialist, so comparing Hitler and socialist is like saying someone hopes to become a judge in the same way OJ did.
A little historical factual error.

I can understand and have a conversation about logical, founded ideas about Obama's presidency, but what I can not let go by is fear mongering lies about the Obama presidency based on little fact or logic.

*slowly claps*

I agree with you, but wow....... that was the best post i've ever seen on this forum.

 

[Deathcarter]

Death, would you say that Ronald Regan was programing children when he spoke to the children? What about George Bush Senior? What makes these speaches so different than Obama's?
There is no basis for the programing minds argument.

2ndly, comparing Hitler to a socialist is a horrible, misinformed comparision. The Facist took power because the Europeans were afraid of the socialist parties taking over their countries. Facist were anti socialism. They favored strong government in social rights and moral code but no government in economics unless necessary. Hitler came to power in part because of fear of socialist, so comparing Hitler and socialist is like saying someone hopes to become a judge in the same way OJ did.
A little historical factual error.

I can understand and have a conversation about logical, founded ideas about Obama's presidency, but what I can not let go by is fear mongering lies about the Obama presidency based on little fact or logic.

I was comparing Hitler to Obama as collectivists, an ideology emcompassing both socialism and facism. They both want to emphasize service and individual sacrifice to their countries as opposed to the self as a top priority. In regards to the youth, Hitler made practically all of them enlist into that program whci was basically refered to as the junior army. Obama emphasized working hard in school and following the system as the true path to success as opposed to striving to stand out amongst your peers and make yourself more desireable in the real world (which would invariably include hard work).

Given that this speech would have been held in all schools of all grade levels (outside of that random district in Texas) in the country, I don't find it unreasonable to expect that someone as smart as Obama would logically devote much of the speech to the high school students that are in a more pertainent position to need to be told straight up what is REALLY valued in the real world as they would actually graduate before the end of his term. Basically, I would have hoped for it to be more relevant to high school students than the little kids considering I had voted for Obama in the idea he (as opposed to a lot of other Presidents) would actually consider the 18-25 age group as more than a selection of ripe meat for the military.

Though I will admit that Obama has invested more resources into services revolved around this age group than MANY other politicians (though, I wish individualitywas something Washington and the media emphasized more as general alturistic sacrifice to the nation really does not mean **** to those at the top and outside of losing brain function/a limb in war, the community as well (in terms of getting of their *** and fixing the broken systems in place anyway); just look at the Department of Veteran's affairs (even if Obama is attempting to fix that)).

 

[CRASHiC]

Obama emphasized working hard in school and following the system as the true path to success as opposed to striving to stand out amongst your peers and make yourself more desireable in the real world (which would invariably include hard work).

When you fill out a job application, you must be your GPA.
School leads to success in the real world. It is not necessarily a matter of having an education that jobs are looking for, but a sign that you can follow through with something, and have a strong work ethic. School is the way to success. The higher education you have, the more employment options you have, and the more you have proven yourself to be a proficient worker.

Further more, I question your lack of interest in having an educated population, and your general lack of trust in education. It is the lack of education that causes such large confusion such as the Texas 'succession clause' which doesn't even truly exist. Had the population been more fully educated, than we would likely not be caught in the threatening mess that we have now in Texas, this just being one example of the importance of education. The gap between the job availabilities for those with an education, and those without it have grown considerably over the past 30 years. Choosing to drop out of high school in today's economic world is not going to get anyone very far, recession or no recession.

I had voted for Obama in the idea he (as opposed to a lot of other Presidents) would actually consider the 18-25 age group as more than a selection of ripe meat for the military.

I see no basis for this. You claim that because he was not speaking about 'real world skill' that he was not speaking to high schoolers. The things Obama stressed apply to everyone, all the way up to the Senior who was struggling to graduate, and was beginning to wonder if it was even worth it. This speech was mostly directed at the lower class people, who are the most likely to drop out of school, both because their culture does not value education, there economic situation does not encourage them to stay in school, and because of their peer group. This was Obama's target audience.

I also fail to see how anything said here is promoting a socialist agenda. In fact, if we look at many of the words that Obama uses, they are speaking about the opposite of what neo-cons are saying Obama wants to turn this country into.
"If you do not succeed, it is no ones fault but your own" That is the basis for free market economics.

 

[BBQTV]

i hope this doesn't get closed because i really like reading your posts

 

[finalark]

By the way, this historically factual error on Obama's part actually made me chuckle: "It’s the story of students who sat where you sit 250 years ago, and went on to wage a revolution and found this nation." Silly Obama.

Actually Obama makes slip ups like that a lot. But the media just has a good laugh about it where as if any other politician does that they make them look like complete idiots.

I saw the speech, and I read it too. I really don't see what the big deal everyone is making over this is. Come on, is it really any different from Rocky saying "Stay in School, kid"?

But I will have to admit, it was a really good speech, might just be the thing to kick kids in the *** to get moving.

 

[Deathcarter]

When you fill out a job application, you must be your GPA.
School leads to success in the real world. It is not necessarily a matter of having an education that jobs are looking for, but a sign that you can follow through with something, and have a strong work ethic. School is the way to success. The higher education you have, the more employment options you have, and the more you have proven yourself to be a proficient worker.

Further more, I question your lack of interest in having an educated population, and your general lack of trust in education. It is the lack of education that causes such large confusion such as the Texas 'succession clause' which doesn't even truly exist. Had the population been more fully educated, than we would likely not be caught in the threatening mess that we have now in Texas, this just being one example of the importance of education. The gap between the job availabilities for those with an education, and those without it have grown considerably over the past 30 years. Choosing to drop out of high school in today's economic world is not going to get anyone very far, recession or no recession.



I see no basis for this. You claim that because he was not speaking about 'real world skill' that he was not speaking to high schoolers. The things Obama stressed apply to everyone, all the way up to the Senior who was struggling to graduate, and was beginning to wonder if it was even worth it. This speech was mostly directed at the lower class people, who are the most likely to drop out of school, both because their culture does not value education, there economic situation does not encourage them to stay in school, and because of their peer group. This was Obama's target audience.

I also fail to see how anything said here is promoting a socialist agenda. In fact, if we look at many of the words that Obama uses, they are speaking about the opposite of what neo-cons are saying Obama wants to turn this country into.
"If you do not succeed, it is no ones fault but your own" That is the basis for free market economics.

Of course I would agree that you need an education; no one in their right mind would argue otherwise and that certainly wasn't my point. Sorry if it come across as that.

You did imply that a high school education itself isn't necessarily that important as opposed to what it would imply. My point was that, Obama should have pointed out that self-improvement and the general trial of becoming an adult is not something that is done simply by adhering to the standerd path (the primary and secondary education systems). It is something only acheive though a long battle with the self in a quest to discard childish and unhealthy habits and making that mental transformation into an adult. I am 19 and would still consider myself a child, even though I passed high school. Basically, my reasoning is based on self experience.

This is pretty much why I jumped on Obama for what I perceived to be socialist propaganda, that figurative battle is something only the individual himself can fight. The school system in general simply is not suited for helping to turn teens into adults (though this can be heavily skewed depending on the quality of teachers); it is just a formal introduction into the real world at best. This is why I would have wanted Obama to focus on more individualistic aspects in his speech.

That was pretty much my opinion in making this thread; I just didn't elaborate on it clearly enough since it takes me 45 minutes to make an effing post (talk way too much) and I was lazy to do more. That whole complaining about emphasizing service to the country was me deviating from my real opinion into a rant on how collectivism is the work of the devil and ranting on Obama for whatever inane reasoning.

 

[manhunter098]

I dont think that the intention of school really is (or should be) to turn kids into adults, that is something that comes naturally with time and the proper influences (which encompasses an extremely broad range) on ones life.

Basically your life will turn you into an adult, nothing else can, and nothing else will.