Tips on how to fight Little Mac?

[Joflyer]

I realize this might be a bit odd to put in this forum, but I can't think on anywhere else to place it. Sorry if it's in the wrong place. ;___;



Does anyone have any tips on how to fight good Little Macs?

Whenever I do friendlies with my brother, I get super salty because he mains Little Mac and plays him very defensively. It feels like I have literally no options against him with the characters I generally play. (Currently decided to make dragon waifu my main, but I also play Ike , Lucina, Robin, Kirby, and Rosalina casually. So far, it feels like Robin and Rosa are the only characters I have that can deal with him due to sheer power of match-up.) I'm looking for specifically Corrin match-up advice right now, but general advice is always welcome.

I can't catch him on the approach, because he doesn't. If I don't do anything, he won't. And I feel like have no options to approach because he abuses super armor like nothing else. Dash attack? Eats it with Forward Smash. Aerials approach? Still eats it with forward Smash. Fox trot to charged Smash? Forward Smash comes out faster than my move. Try to grab? Forward Smash comes out before I'm in range for the grab.

Let me be frank and admit I am not very good at Smash and I know this. However, I know it is specifically a Little Mac, and more precisely defensive Little Mac, that is my worst match up in the game. I can at least attempt to deal with any other character and not feel helpless against them, even the likes of Shiek and ZSS. Little Mac? I feel like I might as well put the controller down because I just can't do anything, no matter how hard I try.

Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.

 

[Green Stache X]

You could fake an approach, and as the Little Mac forward smashes, punish him. Aim to get him off stage and edge guard because even a small bit can be enough to gimp his recovery.

Also, Little Mac was recently buffed in the 1.1.4 patch so that his smash attacks are safer on shield, so this may make all of the above slightly more difficult.

 

[Arrei]

In this particular instance, it seems a lot like you're resigned to Fsmash beating whatever you try. So charge in and... block it. Or act like you're going for one option, then do something else. And punish. With Corrin, you can try Instant Pin, Dtilt or Ftilt to start a combo, or jab to try and get him off the stage. Pepper in some grabs to keep him guessing. And you've got Dragon Fang Shot to harass him from afar, and you can wavebounce or B-reverse it to trick him. Once you've got him offstage, don't let him get back. Corrin's tipper Instant Dragon Lunge and his own Fsmash is perfect for ending Mac.

Just remember to not linger in shield on a failed approach - Mac can shatter a hesitant player's shield in mere moments.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

It seems like you just don't have enough matchup experience. Personally, I have begun using each character in the cast in order to understand how each of them work, and to figure out what DOESN'T work so when my opponents do said things I can easily beat them if thats their main strategy. So, if you begin to do what he does and try mimicking it, figure out where there is a problem. During the foxtrot before he does a Forward Smash, hit him with a Dash Attack to prevent him from using a Forward Smash. Dashing in and shielding will work with all of your characters to block the grab, then read a roll and either dash forwards and grab or turn around and grab, or expect a spotdodge and grab in place. Keep him on the edge whenever possible.

Corrin I can't say much on due to me not quite having him down yet, but I'll go over one effective strategy I've found. If he begins playing defensively, pressure him with a mix of uncharged and charged Dragon Fang Shot and the bites in order to catch him sleeping on you, and mix up your approaches by using retreating Back Aerials after dashing in, running in with a Dash Attack or Neutral Air, and using Side B the opposite side your brother is on then kicking towards him. Your counter is your greatest asset here, as countering one of his Forward Smashes around 20% or a bit higher WILL kill him due to its ridiculous launch angle, knockback, and everything about it overall. Keep pressure up, then approach once he changes his gameplan.

Ike personally seems to be the character you will have the most problems with against Little Mac, since while his attacks are strong quite a few of them are rather slow excluding his Back Air, Jab, and Down Tilt if memory serves. Approach extremely cautiously if you have to use Ike, and don't throw out anything you don't have to. Bait him into expecting a move with short hops then land and shield, read a roll, then grab and use his very good up and down throws and follow up with Aether or Forward Air, depending on the percent you are at. Once Little Mac is offstage, use Back Airs and Forward Airs to catch him if he airdodges, and use counter once you expect him to Jolt Haymaker for recovery.

Lucina is an interesting case since I used to main Lucina back in my early days of Smash 4, but I still have a bunch of knowledge of this matchup because of it. After the recent buffs to Marth/Lucina, personally I'd say Marth would be a better pick now that getting tippers is easier with Marth, but Lucina can play more aggressively. As long as you have patience, counter at the right times, you'll be golden. Dancing Blade, their Side B, with the downwards angle can catch him offguard due to its multi-hit nature and putting their hitbox slightly lower to the ground. Shield Breaker can catch him if he begins shielding a lot, and while their throws aren't great Back and Forward throws can lead into a Back Air or Forward Air follow-up, or if he airdodges use Down Air and meteor that ******* all the way down to the shadow realm.

Robin has one of the best scenarios in this instance, since he plays heavily defensively. Charge up Thunder to Elthunder and Arcthunder whenever possible; never to Thoron. While it might seem cool to get Thoron, it's just burning off extra Thunder uses as the other two versions have better utility. Elthunder does chip damage and forces him to go into shield or to take 11% or so, and Arcthunder can kill at later percents and can be shielded, but you can follow that up. Elfire is the best move here, since you can make a nearly impassable wall for Little Mac to cross over where you can charge up Thunders. Levin Sword Aerials are also the bane of Little Mac, especially Back Air due to its speed and still having good power overall. If you get a grab, Down Throw Up Air or Back Throw usually work to get kills, as well as Arcthunder and plausibly Thoron if you can even land it, as well as all of his Smashes and Forward, Up, and Back aerials with Levin variants.

Kirby can do some really funky crap with his Forward Throw, so getting grabs is key. Pay attention to where he will Forward Smash whenever you approach, and begin to fake him out by doing things such as double jumping then charging a hammer to hit him during the lag of Forward Smash. Forward Throw-Forward Air works, and immediately after that Forward Throw-Jumping Forward Air works. Getting Straight Lunge isn't exactly that great of an idea, since there are very few moves you can armor through in that matchup, so just keep your command grab in Inhale. Down Air also catches airdodges pretty well and meteors Little Mac, basically resulting in an instantaneous stock loss.

Rosalina... Ah, sorry, can't help there. Don't play Rosaluma


Hope this giant wall of text helps!


1 MINUTE LATER EDIT: Since your brother plays really defensively, thats why Robin will do well. He sucks against rushdown.

 

[Joflyer]

Thanks for the tips guys, it helped a lot.

The major thing that really helped me was using mind games. Faking an aerial approach to bait out a counter/air-dodge and then punish. A particularly good one I found was to dash toward him, Dragon Lance in the opposite direction, stick to the ground and do the reverse kick.

Today's matches also finally made me realize a huge flaw in my game-play, which is I go on auto-pilot very quickly. If I keep my head in the game, I do pretty okay, but as soon as auto-pilot kicks in, I get really sloppy.


Today felt like a learning experince and was the first time in a long time where I felt like I might actually have what it takes to "git gud, as it were.

 

[Zoramine Fae]

Thanks for the tips guys, it helped a lot.

The major thing that really helped me was using mind games. Faking an aerial approach to bait out a counter/air-dodge and then punish. A particularly good one I found was to dash toward him, Dragon Lance in the opposite direction, stick to the ground and do the reverse kick.

Today's matches also finally made me realize a huge flaw in my game-play, which is I go on auto-pilot very quickly. If I keep my head in the game, I do pretty okay, but as soon as auto-pilot kicks in, I get really sloppy.


Today felt like a learning experince and was the first time in a long time where I felt like I might actually have what it takes to "git gud, as it were.

Ahaha, that sounds like you had a good time though. Us here are happy to take any challenges people have towards fighting or fighting as Little Mac and getting rid of the problem, so if you have any other problematic characters just ask us!