time to embrace 3rd party

[soviet prince]

I think it is time to let more 3rd party's in. I used to be on the boat of not allowing a lot of 3rd party's but my mind has changed since then. I think as long as:

1. the characters fits in the cast:
2. imp to Nintendo past and present: characters like megaman, professor layton, max from scribblenots, I believe have earned a spot on the roster.

Also it would fit with Nintendo plan to be more friendly with 3rd party's studios. With alot of first and second party characters being already covered I don't see no reason why to not welcoming more in the next game.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

The hard part of letting 3rd party characters in is because of legal issues. Sakurai has good connections with Nintendo, and the rights to each character isn't too hard to get a hold of. However, as soon as he goes out of 1st party territory, it can get very complicated, he has even commented that it's hard to get Pokémon characters through because they're sort of 2nd party.

Now 3rd party is on a whole other level, sometimes it can be downright impossible, regardless of what either companies want to do, because of some sort of past agreement or copyright law.

It's mostly behind the scenes stuff which makes 3rd party characters so exclusive. And even then this is a Nintendo All-Stars game, so I think keeping it at 3-4 3rd parties this time around is reasonable. I'm guessing at 3, with Mega Man being the obvious new 3rd party to be added.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Even though she doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast, Bayonetta should be in to popularise her more just like with Pit and Snake. I wouldn't be surprised if Bayonetta 2 bombed due to abysmal sales.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I agree. Obviously Nintendo has the biggest piece of the cake, but I guess something around 8/10% of the roster could go to third parties. Out of a possible 50-spot roster, 5 for third parties doesn't sound unreasonable.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Even though she doesn't fit in with the rest of the cast, Bayonetta should be in to popularise her more just like with Pit and Snake. I wouldn't be surprised if Bayonetta 2 bombed due to abysmal sales.

Hell no Bayonetta should not be in

 

[Demna]

I think the game would be better with 3rd party character. However, it should be limited. I'd say no more than four 3rd party characters should be added.

Adding too much salt in a dish may ruin its taste

 

[FalKoopa]

Umm no. I actually want to keep Smash limited to Nintendo characters, and want to keep 3rd parties to a minimum. (An ABSOLUTE maximum of 5: Snake, Sonic, B&K, MegaMan and Prof. Layton)

Unlike others, I actually don't have a problem with scraping the bottom of the barrel, because the less wanted characters are often the most fun to play as.

 

[umegames]

As some from above said, 3-4 max. Sonic, snake, and add Pac-man and megaman. and maybe down the road add a 5th character as DLC

 

[Curious Villager]

Adding too many non-Nintendo characters into smash would be like adding too many non-Mario characters (Who have no connection to the Mario universe I mean) into Mario Kart. It's a no and it would stray too far from what the series was originally all about.

I know this is coming from somebody who supports Professor Layton as his most wanted character but honestly. I still want to keep Smash as a mostly Nintendo All-Stars themed fighter series.

I think the maximum I would be okay with in terms of smash 4 would be about 4 or maybe 5 third parties. No more than that please. There are still plenty of potential Nintendo characters out there they can add to smash (even if they aren't as popular as the ones already in or those currently anticipated such as Ridley and K. Rool) so I honestly don't think the time is right yet to start adding all sorts of non-Nintendo characters into smash, which is one of the reasons why I'm glad that Sakurai doesn't want to go overboard with them either. (Despite how this lowers Laytons chances... a lot...)

And basically everything Falkoopa said.

 

[volbound1700]

I don't have a problem if they are connected to Nintendo (Megaman, Pac-Man, Professor Layton, etc.). I do dream of having a Smash Brothers in the future that is a collection of all the greatest Video Game characters and not just Nintendo.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

^
That's fair, but it would not be Super Smash Bros lol, and would be way hard to create.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I never want to see more than five third-party guests, at least in a roster no bigger than 50. What I like about Smash Bros. is the cohesion that its cast has; they're all made by Nintendo, and that helps the crossover concept be fun while keeping it aesthetically clean. It's a great experience to have your favorite Nintendo characters together; they're all tied to the same entity, making them shared experiences of a single associated memory. Whenever crossovers start incorporating tons of properties from across the board with little to no shared history among them, that sense of an epic clash is lost on me. That's why I can't really get behind things like Project X Zone or even Street Fighter X Tekken and its band of guest characters. Once the pool of properties starts over-extending itself, the crossover devolves from a nostalgia-driven collusion of associated but distinct properties into a messy mishmash of totally unrelated sources. If Smash Bros. took that route, it'd no longer be a celebration of Nintendo; just a fanservice game trying to appeal to as many different fanbases as possible without any sort of self-identity. When I fight Ganondorf as Mr. Game & Watch, I still feel like they fit together because they're both Nintendo characters I associate with one thought. Fighting someone like Bayonetta with Mr. Game & Watch, on the other hand, would make me question why these two characters are even in the same game, and it'd just feel weird. Being a Nintendo crossover is Smash's purpose. It doesn't need to become a generic "video game in general" crossover. If every crossover game did that, there'd be nothing keeping them unique among one another. There are third-party characters I'd like to play as, sure, but for every one of them, I can think of a Nintendo character I'd like just as much, if not more.

I also oppose an inundation of third-parties because I still think Nintendo easily has another 15 or 20 popular, important characters that could be added. I really don't think we're scraping the bottom of the barrel yet.

 

[Dark Phazon]

More like time to embrace june 11th....

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Most Likley if there be new 3rd Party it would be Mega Man and Pac-Man!!!

What could happen:
Maxwell from Scribblenauts, Professor Layton from series with same name and Geno from Super Mario RPG...


Rest wouldn't be necessary IMHO.... Also Snake & Sonic returns (atleast Sonic)

 

[Demna]

I mean no offence, but I don't think that Pac-man is fit for the Smash series. If you think he is, do you mind stating why ?

 

[Crap-Zapper]

He is an Iconic character which has a body that would fit into the likes of Kirby and Yoshi, So I think he would work fine, plus Namco's involvment could be a reason for why he get inn... The ONLY other Namco character that could/should replace Pac, is Lloyd from Tales of Symphonia... But other than that I'd say Pac-Man

 

[Johnknight1]

3rd party characters should make up no more than roughly 10% of the roster. I say 5 max, but 3-4 is more reasonable (the 3 or 4 being Snake and Sonic plus Mega Man and/or Pac-Man in all likelihood). Maybe next time around I'll change my mind on that (it used to be "no more than about 5% of the roster), but for now, I just want the big Nintendo characters covered first (everyone in Brawl, Mewtwo, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Ridley, and Shulk).

Then after that, I would love to see characters like Simon Belmont (DAT WHIP!!!), Professor Layton (even if I don't know his franchise that well, he intrigues me), and Tails.

After that, I'd be really open to characters like Ryu (from Ninja Gaiden), Rayman (Rayman), Bayonetta (Bayonetta), Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia), Geno (Super Mario RPG), and even Travis Touchdown (No More Heroes 1 and 2).

I mean no offence, but I don't think that Pac-man is fit for the Smash series. If you think he is, do you mind stating why ?

He is the original video game star and the most recognizable video game character ever. Also, he's Shigeru Miyamoto's (aka the video game God) favorite video game character. No really, go show your grandma and parents a picture of Pac-Man and Mario, and ask them who they are. The numbers will be fairly similar.

 

[Demna]

He is the original video game star and the most recognizable video game character ever. Also, he's Shigeru Miyamoto's (aka the video game God) favorite video game character. No really, go show your grandma and parents a picture of Pac-Man and Mario, and ask them who they are. The numbers will be fairly similar.

I unfortunately can't ask my grandparents the question since they died a long time ago, haha. Sticking to the topic, I realize who Pacman is and how famous he is (obviously). I'm asking why does he fit in smash? What aspect does he contain to make him a suitable character for ssb4?

 

[Johnknight1]

I unfortunately can't ask my grandparents the question since they died a long time ago, haha. Sticking to the topic, I realize who Pacman is and how famous he is (obviously). I'm asking why does he fit in smash? What aspect does he contain to make him a suitable character for ssb4?

Yeah, I only got one left...

But yeah, Pac-Man is famous, and retro. That alone makes him worthy of smash and fit in, yet he also sticks out (which is what you want IMO in 3rd party characters; they fit in, but stick out).

As for him fitting into smash... he could just have a moveset made for him out of thin air seemingly, just like Fox, Captain Falcon, the Ice Climbers, Pit, and ROB. Shigeru Miyamoto (AKA GOD!) said he's his favorite video game character. He helped develop characters in Smash 64 and Melee (only the characters he made or helped make though) and helped make both games. He's said many times if he wanted a character in Smash Bros, they'd get in. Favorite character + any character can get in = possibly Miyamoto putting a character in smash bros whom he helps make the moveset for.

Also, I assume Miyamoto knows how to make movesets, considering how great of movesets Fox and Captain Falcon got out of nowhere, which he helped created. And even if Miyamoto isn't involved, Namco Bandai is filled with people who know how to make great characters (LIZARDMAN!!!).

Basically, I don't know, but these guys are experts, and they would know if they did it.

 

[FalKoopa]

Miyamoto helped create Falcon's and Fox's movesets? Are you sure?

 

[Demna]

As for him fitting into smash... he could just have a moveset made for him out of thin air seemingly, just like Fox, Captain Falcon, the Ice Climbers, Pit, and ROB

Please define how Fox, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Pit, and ROB's moveset are made out of"thin air".
I see that each of those characters have a genuine moveset that have been pondered about before inserting each moveset into a specific character.

 

[Johnknight1]

Please define how Fox, Captain Falcon, Ice Climbers, Pit, and ROB's moveset are made out of"thin air".
I see that each of those characters have a genuine moveset that have been pondered about before inserting each moveset into a specific character.

Well, Fox had never left his Arwing before, sans to ride a Landmaster and that submarine in that laggy level. He had never actually been on foot. The only obvious weapon was a laser. Everything else was made from scratch, from the Fire Fox, to the shine, to the Phantom Fox, to even all of his other moves.

Captain Falcon had the same thing. All he had was a gun, and he didn't use it. Everything was made from scratch in terms of his moveset.

Ice Climbers' only move was whack with a hammer and summon icicles. They didn't do anything else, and the pink Ice Climber (Nana) was the second player, so even the team concept was pretty new.

Pit really only used an arrow and I think maybe one sword (I dunno, I haven't played Kid Icarus in at least 5 years), and his twin sword idea was actually inspired by Darth Maul from Star Wars Episode I, according to Sakurai at the GDC in 2008. All of his special moves he had used before, sans his forward B (I think).

ROB while having more moves from his 3 previous games (not counting Mario Kart DS) had to have everything else made from scratch, inspired from robotics, or inspired upon his previous games and "set" moves.

Miyamoto helped create Falcon's and Fox's movesets? Are you sure?

Says so on the Smash 64 and Melee credits he helped with "character design," which I assume that is a part of/the primary role of that position.

 

[Deleted member]

The hard part of letting 3rd party characters in is because of legal issues. Sakurai has good connections with Nintendo, and the rights to each character isn't too hard to get a hold of. However, as soon as he goes out of 1st party territory, it can get very complicated, he has even commented that it's hard to get Pokémon characters through because they're sort of 2nd party.

Now 3rd party is on a whole other level, sometimes it can be downright impossible, regardless of what either companies want to do, because of some sort of past agreement or copyright law.

It's mostly behind the scenes stuff which makes 3rd party characters so exclusive. And even then this is a Nintendo All-Stars game, so I think keeping it at 3-4 3rd parties this time around is reasonable. I'm guessing at 3, with Mega Man being the obvious new 3rd party to be added.

Then you have to take into account that Sakurai has mentioned the difficulties of fitting characters in general, especially Pokémon characters and ESPECIALLY third-parties. It's why third-parties are so difficult to guess considering the unknown factor surrounding them and is the issues with third-parties Sakurai mentions the most.

Sakurai uphelds a higher expectations for third-parties than he does for Nintendo characters and is why he is very conservative on third-parties. Mega Man, Professor Layton and a Tales rep are the only ones with a realistic shot of getting in and even then, I have my doubts on all of them.

 

[soviet prince]

I can see pacman smash now, turns every one of blue ghost and if he eats them sends them flying