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Tilting Troubles

KeyOfTruth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
81
I want to enjoy fast paced gameplay and better myself at competitive play, but I continually feel restrained by the limited controllers compatible with Project M and sometimes the control scheme itself. By far the most personally annoying issue I have with controls is tilting without dashing. In a fast paced game like Project M I find it difficult not to "smash" the analog stick in the direction I want to tilt in the heat of a match. This is especially relevant when I'm trying to turn around and side-tilt at the same time, and once you start dashing you've locked your options. Does anyone else have this issue? It seems there is no truly perfect controller for Smash, not even the Gamecube controller.
 

KeyOfTruth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
81
Get better and learn to not smash when you want to tilt.
Very insightful. I expected as much though.

Technical skill is about applying control inputs to your understanding of a video game. Keyword: applying. When controls are poorly designed to the point I cannot apply them in a reasonable manner it doesn't matter how well I understand the game.

You cannot justify bad controls with accusations of insufficient skill. This personal distaste I have is not about learning the game, it's about learning the controller quirks.
 

Narpas_sword

Moderator
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Dec 11, 2013
Messages
3,859
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
They're not poorly designed. Tilting is fairly easy.
If you turned on the game and did a tilt for each word you posted, you'd have it down by now.

There are a lot harder things to do in smash than tilting. You're going to have to learn to walk before you learn to run.
 

KeyOfTruth

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2013
Messages
81
They're not poorly designed. Tilting is fairly easy.
If you turned on the game and did a tilt for each word you posted, you'd have it down by now.

There are a lot harder things to do in smash than tilting. You're going to have to learn to walk before you learn to run.
It seems everyone is already assuming that I am not practicing. I've played well over 1,000 hours across multiple different iterations of smash which all have tilting and dashing present in them. I find it strange that after all that time I have still not fully adapted to the fine art of tilting without dashing. I'm well aware that Smash relies heavily on smashing the stick for a dash as opposed to double tapping, otherwise dash dancing would be near impossible. What bugs me is that in a fast paced game like Project M deliberately restraining myself from smashing the stick for a tilt makes my input feel all the more sluggish. As an example: My opponent is behind me and I want to turn around fast, naturally I'm going to smash the analog stick because I'm trying to react as fast as possible so that I can forward-tilt as soon as possible. As a result tilting and dashing do not feel intuitive, in my opinion, and intuitive controls are very important in fast paced instinctive fighting games.
 
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Narpas_sword

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Seriously.

There's no secret to it.
The controls are absolutely fine.
You just have to NOT smash the stick.

While you're learning that, learn to soft press the shield buttons for an L cancel.

Or pick up samus and learn Platform Missile cancelling with homing on the platform and Smash missile on the Stage.

After doing that, you'll have tilts down.
 
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CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
It's not hard. Just don't smash the stick when you want to tilt. A guy can play this game with his ****ing tongue. Literally. The controls are fine, so unless you have a legit actual motor control issue with your hands, it's all on you.
 

MegaMissingno

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
574
NNID
missingno
To Smash, you have to quickly slam the stick all the way and press A at the same time. To tilt, you have to... not do that. There are a couple different ways to avoid meeting those conditions for a Smash and get a tilt instead:

  • Slam the stick first and then press A a bit after. But this conflicts with dashing and tap jump (if enabled), preventing ftilt and utilt. And having to slow down isn't great either.
  • Buffer it by holding the stick down after another action. Obviously limited in that you have to be doing something else first.
  • Slowly move the stick instead of quickly slamming it. Again, slow is a problem.
  • Only move the stick partway. This is the magic method with no downsides at all. It does take a little practice to consistently hit the sweetspot, too little and you just jab, too far and you smash. But once you have this down, you're golden. Practice makes perfect.
 

Strong Badam

Super Elite
Administrator
Premium
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Feb 27, 2008
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26,551
The skillset of the game is not just speed, but precision. Being able to tilt is very important and you're gonna run into trouble real quick if you can't do it, it's kind of everywhere. Shield tilting, small aerial drifting, etc.
 

ECHOnce

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Messages
1,191
Location
Bellevue, WA
Your argument about fighting games makes some sense - in order to support fast-paced gameplay, the inputs required for actions should be intuitive. The input in question is tilts. The action your example brought up was turning around to attack someone behind you with a tile, quickly and on reaction. The input - tilting behind you and pressing an attack button - seems intuitive enough. And so, it has matched the requirements you have set.

The problem you are having is that the input does not seem intuitive to you. When a player approaches a new game, everything about it may seem unnatural, awkward, gimmicky, strict in timing/inputs, etc. That's a natural part of the learning process. As we play more, we pick little things up about the game and grow more accustomed to it's mechanics, until most actions feel natural and intuitive to us.

Sometimes, though, we may have been unaware of some aspect of the game, and skipped it during our "beginner" learning process, or approached learning it in a less-than-optimal way. Take tap-jump vs. x/y jump. I was a victim of that, too. I used tap jump for a good 5 casual years, only to find myself held back later on when I wanted to get more competitive. In most other games I had played up until that point, up on an analog stick had almost always been used as the jumping input. Using X/Y seemed backwards, and re-wiring my muscle memory to jump with not only a different input, but with a different hand took several tries over a few months. It's not easy adjusting muscle memory, or overriding what you may consider to be "intuitive." But for 99% of the rest of the community, it already is intuitive. But it's really no big deal. Somewhere out there, some other guy is getting frustrated trying to learn to U-tilt without jumping, or maybe another is having trouble not F-smashing instead of F-tilting, or jumping --> F-airing instead of F-smashing.

It's all a matter of recognizing that this is your own problem, not the game's, and realizing the fact that you're able to see this is a bad habit means you're getting better. Being able to spot your bad habits is a hugely important skill to have, so put it to use! Don't blame the game for being the way it is - PM is well-established, and getting angry at a rock for being shaped the way it is isn't going to convince the rock to change anything about itself. What you can change is yourself. So swallow down some pride, don't keep telling the rock things to do, and practice tilts for 5-10min per day until you've reshaped your hand to fit comfortably around that rock instead...until holding that rock - whose shape used to seem so awkward - starts to feel natural and intuitively-designed for you.
 

Foo

Smash Lord
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Apr 14, 2014
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1,207
Location
Commentatorland
For what it's worth, you can rebind c-stick to attack and forward on the c-stick will do a forward tilt.
 

Narpas_sword

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For what it's worth, you can rebind c-stick to attack and forward on the c-stick will do a forward tilt.
This has a problem with crouching and using the c stick though.

In brawl, crouch + c stick down = dtilt.
The fix that the pmdt made to make it like melee breaks it's behaviour if the stick is set to attack.
 
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