Thoughts on 3.0 vs 3.5?

[BND]

With 3.6 around the corner, I think it's a good time to ask: How did everyone feel about 3.5 as opposed to 3.0? Snake's meta didn't change terribly much, aside from Cypher and possibly down air (and we still have people using them in roughly the same ways), but almost everyone else's changed a good lot. Did you prefer the 3.0 environment or the 3.5 environment, and why?

On the other hand, if the anti-Snake meta at the time (or maybe for 3.6, though I see that's not quite the case anymore) still didn't know how to deal with Snake at all and he got nerfed or changed around some more in some relatively major way (I have no idea what this could constitute at the moment; maybe laggier C4 detonation time for more difficult recovery, a smaller stick hitbox, Snake's grenades disappear when you get grabbed, etc.), what would you do? Support the changes, protest against them somehow, or switch to a different character entirely?

 

[cisyphus]

I honestly feel like 3.5 Snake is practically perfect. If his only modification is increased air mobility, I can't see any more changes being needed besides nerfs to his aerials ? Maybe? 3.0's trademark was jank. Invincible Cypher was silly. Invincibility on up tilt was silly. Difficult-to-SDI aerials was silly. The massive power of C4 was silly (and awesome) as was its unintuitive knockback angle. The thing about all of these though is that he needed them to keep up with all of the other silliness going on in 3.0. Overall I think 3.5's design is better and that Snake is stronger in 3.5 than he was in 3.0.

 

[Professor Pro]

Snake imo is definitely weaker as a character in 3.5 than he was in 3.0.

 

[ForgottenLabRat]

I think instead of nerfing the top tier characters like Lucas and Mewtwo, they should have buffed everyone to their level. I also thought the nerf to recoveries were unnecessary and reduce the versatility many characters had off stage fighting due to being limited on the moves that they can recover from.

 

[LupinX]

I think Snake is better in 3.5 compared to 3.0. This is a biased because I have never experienced Snake in 3.0 but have watched Professor Pro and Rolex play them really well. The only thing that can be of help of Snake is what cisyphus said, better aerial mobility. That can pretty much balance Snake as a whole. The only problem I have is Transform removing C4.

With 3.6 around the corner, I think it's a good time to ask: How did everyone feel about 3.5 as opposed to 3.0? Snake's meta didn't change terribly much, aside from Cypher and possibly down air (and we still have people using them in roughly the same ways), but almost everyone else's changed a good lot. Did you prefer the 3.0 environment or the 3.5 environment, and why?

On the other hand, if the anti-Snake meta at the time (or maybe for 3.6, though I see that's not quite the case anymore) still didn't know how to deal with Snake at all and he got nerfed or changed around some more in some relatively major way (I have no idea what this could constitute at the moment; maybe laggier C4 detonation time for more difficult recovery, a smaller stick hitbox, Snake's grenades disappear when you get grabbed, etc.), what would you do? Support the changes, protest against them somehow, or switch to a different character entirely?

Unless they fix that grenade/mine port priority nonsense to which BOTH characters get blown up, then yes, grenades should disappear as soon as he gets grabbed, though it will hinder Snake's defense options to rely on the cypher more. If you propose a laggier C4, then it should be as stronger than 3.5 but weaker than 3.0. I do agree (because of curiosity) on the smaller stick hitbox, with less start and endlag though from 3.5. The upthrow should have more stun to contest with the laggy C4.

I think instead of nerfing the top tier characters like Lucas and Mewtwo, they should have buffed everyone to their level. I also thought the nerf to recoveries were unnecessary and reduce the versatility many characters had off stage fighting due to being limited on the moves that they can recover from.

By putting the characters to Lucas/Mewtwo level of 3.0, there would be high amounts of 0-deaths left and right, and it leads to an imbalance between the push and pull factor, creating more push than pull for every character.

 

[cisyphus]

Snake in 3.0 was stupid strong, but everybody else was even stronger to an even stupider degree. Like he was straight busted and only Fox could stop Prof from winning everything ever.

 

[BND]

Snake in 3.0 was stupid strong, but everybody else was even stronger to an even stupider degree. Like he was straight busted and only Fox could stop Prof from winning everything ever.

up throw to ftilt doe
...Melee mechanics why

 

[LupinX]

I think right now, Snake is too balanced for his own good lol

 

[FlashingFire]

Looks like no one mentioned the Fair changes yet. 3.0 Fair was a pretty stupid move in terms of how easily you could spike people with the whole hitbox. Overall I'm perfectly fine with how 3.5 handled Snake, and I hope 3.6 will give him a few touch-ups in the right areas.

Specifically, I'd love it if Snake received slightly greater air speed/weave speed, had slightly better hitbox durations on Nair (so it could be used to reliably clank with projectiles a la Falcon's Nair), and I'd like other characters like Fox, Kirby and Mario to not duck grabs when hit by a tranq. Seriously, that's just silly and makes some difficult matchups arbitrarily more difficult.

 

[cisyphus]

Ehhh, most floatier characters (like Mario and Kirby) you can just f-tilt into u-tilt as they tend to DI the f-tilt poorly (because they're mashing out of tranq). Dash grab also technically works against them, but if you're trying to stick -> grab, it's wasted time and f-tilt -> u-tilt is better (u-tilt tends to be a better launcher as well). Fox is definitely a tricky one, but there you can either set up an edgeguard or f-tilt to techchase or down tilt into any aerial. You can actually down-tilt to soft u-air into strong u-air or even forward air spike if they DI off stage.

 

[Spoice]

Bit off topic, but isn't he getting buffed in 3.6 anyway? This is only based off what I've heard though.

 

[BND]

Bit off topic, but isn't he getting buffed in 3.6 anyway? This is only based off what I've heard though.

That seems to be the case, though I was mainly polling people on how they viewed Snake's position in the meta, and whether they thought Snake should be buffed (or nerfed, in the case that masochists exist in this forum).

Seems like the vast majority think Snake should either be slightly buffed or stay roughly the same, and that's supposedly what we're getting in 3.6, so problem solved, I suppose.

 

[LupinX]

I kind of vote for a slight buff, just some defensive tools needed anyways.

 

[Sylarius]

I thought snake was/is crappy in 3.5 tbh, big part of why I switched mains. Guess my opinion is out of the norm lol.

And snake was definitely better in 3.0 no contest.

 

[BND]

I thought snake was/is crappy in 3.5 tbh, big part of why I switched mains. Guess my opinion is out of the norm lol.

Not sure if that's out of the norm; I personally think Snake needs several buffs in various areas (or at least a huge shift in the metagame to play more "optimally") to stay relevant if people were to figure out how the anti-Snake meta works.
Doesn't seem like that's the case as of now, though I sort of wish PMDT would give Snake a few buffs so that everyone could play on equal footing without gimmicks.