this may sound stupid but....

[captainlukey]

this may sound stupid but.... i find kirby to be falcos worst matchup... cause i was fighting my friend last night (not to blow my own horn, but im pretty good), but he was startin to own me...
okay before you guys all start flaming me here are my reasons...

1. pillaring as it is called is harder to pull off on kirby because he launches really high from the shine...

2. he has excellent DI

3. he has multiple jumps, so when you spike him he is able to get back up even if he meteor cancels way too late...

4. he has a good roll and can dodge all short hop stuff... except SHLs

5. his duck owns and makes it hard to SHL... dam little smart arse

6. his priority is sorely underestimated and can outdo falco most of the time

7. his multiple attacks in the air make it hard for recovery...

8. way light.. but kirby players are good at hiding and flying away etc, so its hard to kill them before about 200%

i think thats aobut it... but there is one plus to fighting kirby that i know of....

1. not many people are good with kirby....

 

[quak]

1. "pillar" refers to the technique falco's use to destroy shields, and put heat on your opponent by making him exhaust that option, Shinecombos is the term your looking for, you can get him at lower percents. Shine, full jump, dair, l-cancel, u-tilt to get you started.

2. Yup, making shine combos a bit more difficult, but he's kirby.

3. He can't meteor cancel ur dair, he has to wait till the stun is over, and if he can recover from there without his up B, and he airdodges and stuff, try to punish that, otherwise punish his predictable final cutter with a ledgehopped dair to really pound him in.

4. If he rolls to much, punish it. Recognize it and hit him with a forward smash while his still immobile from it. Don't even have to read.

5. A few character's ducks are short enough to evade the SHL's, you have two options: One, SHL in place until he realizes he has to approach (not fun, but it's safer). Or approach him. Choose any one of falco's great approaches. Don't forget that since he's a short character, he's easier to pillar.

6. His bair is good, and he's upair (while a little laggy) has some serious sting to it. But you should be definatly be beating his air game with ur dair. No contest.

7. Don't get caught off stage against anyone with a good edgegaurd, that's how falco's get ****ed over. Try to stay center stage, try to only venture to the ledge to seal in a kill.

8. D-tilt and spike are your best kill options.

 

[Grand Mango]

Sorry but if you're losing to an elementary Kirby player, you aren't very good.

Pillaring should be the same as any other character, Kirby's shield is the same as anyone else's, you're confusing the term with shine combos, which in any point/case, shine combos should not be the basis of your playing. You should learn how to beat any character (especially floaties) even without a shine combo.

I'm assuming the "he" you are referring to is your friend, and not Kirby alone. Spiking Kirby should not be too hard, you should ledge hog as well and dair isn't your only killing option.

Rolling can easily be abused by obviously forcing them into a situation where you want them to, and punishing them for it.

SHB is easy, just keep on doing it and if he doesn't budge, ask him if he likes the slow game (start playing with a timer so that if you are ahead by a few % or stocks you would win). When they fly away, keep using lasers to force them to come to you.

You know most of the stuff you had trouble with is basic, and stuff that can be worked on (such as SHB height).

 

[quak]

i think why 'grand mango' is flaming from his high horse is because you said "im pretty good" even though you said not to blow my own horn, people veiw that you are. And ur asking for advice, it just not a good combination.

 

[captainlukey]

it may sound basic... but this kirby is good... the only way i could show you would be vids which i dont have....
i wasnt asking for criticisms i was just saying that kirby is a hard matchup for falco... especially a good one...
it seems to me that you guys have never played a good kirby.... and he can duck the lasers and still be coming for you with WDs...
he meteor cancels the spike well, regardless of what you say....
you can short hop laser or blaster (if that wat SHB means... i always thought it was a laser) till the cows come home but that wont mean crap if hes hanging on the ledge till you come to him... and my friends ledgehop game is good....
if they use all the kirby tricks proply... they are quit hard to beat... and annoying... and it is not basic crap... anyone with some experience would know what a GOOD kirby is like...
and to shine combo even on 0% you have to do a double jump out of the shine quak... and you cant even do that after 15%.. so its apparant to me that you have never played kirby i could be wrong, and his roll when used proply (not over and over again so you can tell when hes gonna do it....) is quite a good technique... and kirbys shffld dair to uptilt leads into combos well on falco.... but obviously you guys knew about that with your INFINATE knowledge of kirby... and before you flame me play a kirby....

 

[Driz]

If you took the time and read through what mango said shine combos are not generally used on floaties in other words you shouldn't be trying to shine combo him to rack up damage. He also stated that dair is not the only way to kill kirby because as you pointed out he can easily break out of it. I have a freind who uses kirby and technically is on the same level as me but I've never had a problem beating him. Just use lots of ariels such as nairs and dairs and try bairs from the ledge/stage to kill him instead of dair for the spike. Falco is much faster then Kirby so if you use your speed to your advantage you should have less trouble. Also because Kirby isn't easy to kill horizontaly try using shhfled uairs or even just up-smashes they send him flying and can kill him at reasonably low percents

 

[quak]

dude, what the ****? Im trying to help you out!

Fine sorry i left that out, yes you do have to to double jump, but you can can combo him to an extent.

But other than that, my advice to you is solid. Real talk.

And btw, you CANNOT meteor cancel either marth's or falco's dair. CANNOT. That is a fact. If it appears that he is, you've gotta be spiking him at lower percentages.

 

[Grand Mango]

i think why 'grand mango' is flaming from his high horse is because you said "im pretty good" even though you said not to blow my own horn, people veiw that you are. And ur asking for advice, it just not a good combination.

I don't think he was asking for advice, which is why I said your problems are here and here's how it is solved instead of just sandwiching the advice.

 

[quak]

apparently not, i guess he just want to lose to a kirby, that's on him

@captainlurkey: if you want advice on how to beat a kirby then fine, but it this thread is about how kirby is the counter for falco, then save it, cause he's not

and FYI i have experience, and i don't need to prove it to you

 

[captainlukey]

apparently not, i guess he just want to lose to a kirby, that's on him

@captainlurkey: if you want advice on how to beat a kirby then fine, but it this thread is about how kirby is the counter for falco, then save it, cause he's not

and FYI i have experience, and i don't need to prove it to you

dude as far as things go, you would probly kill me in a match....
there happy....

i dont see why everyone on these boards just has to have a go.... i wasnt askin for advice... where abouts did you see that?... im not saying kirby is a counter for falco.... i was just giving the points that make kirby a hard match for him and if you guys wanna take it the wrong way then fine... but dont come into my thread flaming me for a simple explaination of why I think kirby is a bad match up.... and everyone comes in here trying to talk technical **** about why im losing.... i never said i lost.... wtf is everyones problem i was hoping for replies lyke yeah kirby can duck SHLs and he can also outdo falco at blah blah blah.... i didnt want your losing cause you suck and ill own you and all the rest of the elitist bullcrap in the replies....
but yes i know that most of you are better than me... thats not the issue here....
so stop F***ing around and stop pretending to know...
and sorry quaks...

 

[xelad1]

kirby is an unorthodox matchup because its a rare one in the professional scene. With that being said there is no way that kirby has an advantage or SHOULD be a hard matchup for falco. He doesn't have a lot of good kill options, dies at low percents. Kirby can be handled just like any floaty, with shffls lots of lasers and biding your time, you need to be more defensive.

Now if you have problem against what you consider a "good" kirby (since you yourself aren't a pro or semi-pro so it seems) imagine how much a jigglypuff would **** you. Jigglypuff has all of the same advantages of floatiness air control, ducking etc... that kirby has except she has a much better offensive game, rest combos etc. She can really destroy a fastfaller if they don't play right. The fact/general consensus is that kirby is not a match for falco at the professional level, it doesn't mean a kirby who is better than you can't whoop your ***... it just means 2 pros of equal level playing those characters...well the falco would win. So maybe your friend is just BETTER than you and knows how to exploit falco, this doesn't make kirby's metagame good though and as a falco player you should know there is practically no excuse for loosing to kirby unless that kirby is azen or something.

Also if your just looking for "confirming" replies (which is what it sounds like from your last post) then don't get all pissed that people don't agree with you and think that you are a noob because you made a silly statement like "i find kirby to be falcos worst matchup"... that is not true in any way shape or form plain and simple.

 

[captainlukey]

kirby is an unorthodox matchup because its a rare one in the professional scene. With that being said there is no way that kirby has an advantage or SHOULD be a hard matchup for falco. He doesn't have a lot of good kill options, dies at low percents. Kirby can be handled just like any floaty, with shffls lots of lasers and biding your time, you need to be more defensive.

Now if you have problem against what you consider a "good" kirby (since you yourself aren't a pro or semi-pro so it seems) imagine how much a jigglypuff would **** you. Jigglypuff has all of the same advantages of floatiness air control, ducking etc... that kirby has except she has a much better offensive game, rest combos etc. She can really destroy a fastfaller if they don't play right. The fact/general consensus is that kirby is not a match for falco at the professional level, it doesn't mean a kirby who is better than you can't whoop your ***... it just means 2 pros of equal level playing those characters...well the falco would win. So maybe your friend is just BETTER than you and knows how to exploit falco, this doesn't make kirby's metagame good though and as a falco player you should know there is practically no excuse for loosing to kirby unless that kirby is azen or something.

Also if your just looking for "confirming" replies (which is what it sounds like from your last post) then don't get all pissed that people don't agree with you and think that you are a noob because you made a silly statement like "i find kirby to be falcos worst matchup"... that is not true in any way shape or form plain and simple.

once again mounds of elitest bull crap....
hes not better... ive already said that.... just one more thing to say then.... xelad your a **** head.... thats better.... and thats the truth... bottom line... the end....

 

[Driz]

First off Captain you would proably beat me
Secondly you started off your post saying "i find kirby to be falcos worst matchup" which you later say hes not a counter? saying that to start makes peopl automatically assume your a newb even if it is not exactly what you meant.
you then put down your reasons for why Kirby gives you some diffuculty and although never asking for advice did not put that you just wanted to know if anyone else had these problems therefore making readers feel the need to inform you of what you can do against those problems you have or things that make your friends Kirby a little harder for you.

Before you post or at least start getting pissed off at everyone who has an opinion make sure you've choosen your words/phrasing carefully and if some one posts something that ur not intrested in hearing instead of flaming them back at least tell them your not looking for advice but just curious if anyone else has experienced that. and plz just relax although people ont he boards may think highly of themselves most of the time there not intentionally making you into a newb there just trying to help.

 

[invertigo]

kirby is in no way a counter or even good against falcos. i play against a kirby who has years of competitve experience more than me and i win most of the time, even though he does beat me pretty often. falco has far more advantages in this fight.

and captainlukey, if everyone seems to be against you, you might be saying something wrong. and it was pretty odd of you to attack someone who was supporting you (quak).

i also dont see a reason you should resist advice so adamantly. people on forums can give advice whenever they want, you should just take it in gratitude.

also if you assume everyone on forums is better than you, why would you think we have never played a good kirby? obviously kirby is severely disadvantaged and you are in fact doing something wrong if hes better than you (not saying he is better than you). im pretty sure most good falcos have faced good kirbys too, so dont think youre the only one.

 

[captainlukey]

First off Captain you would proably beat me
Secondly you started off your post saying "i find kirby to be falcos worst matchup" which you later say hes not a counter? saying that to start makes peopl automatically assume your a newb even if it is not exactly what you meant.
you then put down your reasons for why Kirby gives you some diffuculty and although never asking for advice did not put that you just wanted to know if anyone else had these problems therefore making readers feel the need to inform you of what you can do against those problems you have or things that make your friends Kirby a little harder for you.

Before you post or at least start getting pissed off at everyone who has an opinion make sure you've choosen your words/phrasing carefully and if some one posts something that ur not intrested in hearing instead of flaming them back at least tell them your not looking for advice but just curious if anyone else has experienced that. and plz just relax although people ont he boards may think highly of themselves most of the time there not intentionally making you into a newb there just trying to help.

thanx bro, well said. but i said "I" find kirby.... not "kirby IS the worst matchup"
i guess your right.... thanx for the tip ill keep that in mind, but i just wish people on here werent so quick to place blame and flame.... that goes for me too, but pros and board veterans especially... and im not trying to get in anyones grill here but you know its true... this can be the worst place on the net sometimes...

 

[KnGi]

well not to blow all of you off but yes i'm the kirby player he plays and yes i do give him a hard time because i'm constantly changing my moves and tactics, and as for quak saying you "CANNOT" meteor cancel dair then obviously you kill your kirby's at a lower percentage coz usually after about 180% i can... but your all just gunna simply say i'm a noob but w.e... this is my opinion on the fact and the truth of the matter so if you still wanna flame people for saying something based on facts then i guess your the noob... (not trying to put anyone down) but i suggest maybe stop thinking of what was originally stated but what the question asked actually meant... well this is all from me on this for now

Peace Out:
KnGi

 

[Driz]

Yeh man it's cool not hard to get heated, but just remember people have opinions and love to sahre theirs I personally love too, and people read things differently so when you make a post saying I believe kirby is a bad match up for falco as I said people wanna tell you what they think about that statement so as you said people are sometimes "quick to place blame and flame" you just gotta realize its there way of anwsering your thread and its your choice to take into account what there saying or just ignore it.

 

[KnGi]

but calling a person a "newb" "noob" because they are asking for advice is a pretty low blow especially if you don't even know the person.. even if you've never seen them post before doesn't mean that they are "noob" but the captain can get pretty heated at times especially since smash is one of the things he can show off at but yeah choosing to keep the flame burning or not is everyones choice on how they see the fact of what the person posted beforehand...

Peace Out:
KnGi

 

[captainlukey]

hmmm i dont know about this thread anymore KnGi, its gone off track due to flamage....
screw it lets go home and play some smash....

 

[KnGi]

well its not like i'm gunna say no to some more smashage... this windows exploring is starting to get too old

 

[captainlukey]

wish we had a controll dude.... does anyone out there live close by with spare controlls??? come for a smash... please

 

[offcell]

Maybe you guys play the PAL version where Falco's spike only lasts for the first half of the move (read that somewhere). Otherwise, Falco's dair is a spike, which can't be meteor cancelled, when correctly hit. If you were able to come back with an up+b at 180% after Falco's spike, he musta hit you at the weakest point of the spike. You can read up on meteor smashes and meteor cancels on this thread...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=56440&highlight=meteor+cancel

 

[captainlukey]

Maybe you guys play the PAL version where Falco's spike only lasts for the first half of the move (read that somewhere). Otherwise, Falco's dair is a spike, which can't be meteor cancelled, when correctly hit. If you were able to come back with an up+b at 180% after Falco's spike, he musta hit you at the weakest point of the spike. You can read up on meteor smashes and meteor cancels on this thread...

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=56440&highlight=meteor+cancel

yeah mans we got the pal version, but yeah he meteor cancels after 180% with ease.... i dont see why it would be any different in the NTSC version.... maybe its just a glitch with kirby... but no crap he does so often well into high percents... maybe thats why i got so flared up when people were sayin its impossible.... i wiash i could record some to show you guys.... i thought this was common place in kirby matches... and even if he cancels late he can float back up.... oh and its never an up b its always a jump,
can someone try this out please so we know we are not seeing things

 

[offcell]

Here ya are. Searched "PAL differences", title only. You guys aren't crazy, we just thought you were playing NTSC.

"PAL / NTSC Differences Thread"
Adjustments
- Falco's dair spikes will not spike near the end of the animation, instead generating a weak knockback that sends the opponent slightly upward and away (A vid on DC++ demonstrates this, search for 'PALfalcodair')
- Marth's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike in PAL (and hence can be recovered from)
- Sheik's down throw now allows the the opponent more horizontal DI and hence, can escape chain grabbing, tilts and aerials. The only thing that cannot, or is very hard to escape is a well timed dash attack on low percents. Other than that, Sheik cannot follow up with anything else directly from a down throw if the opponent DIs and techs/double jumps correctly.
- Fox can tech out of Falcos down throw in PAL.
- Bowser's down throw now hits Mr G&W.
- Link's spin attack (up b) doesn't semi spike in PAL.
- Captain Falcon's A A A combo will continue to attack after the 3rd A automatically in NTSC, but stops in PAL version.
- Samus cannot 'bomb out' of grapple beam, for example, if samus sets a bomb and grapple beams and the bomb hits her in ntsc, she will bounce out of the animation, this does not work in PAL.
- PAL (and NTSC version 1.1 and 1.2) has freeze framing*
- You cannot hit the sandbag once it hits the ground in HRC in PAL

 

[Deleted member]

kirby and SOME other floaties are just annoying to play against. grabs are the best option. or a noob combo into a uiar juggle

 

[captainlukey]

Here ya are. Searched "PAL differences", title only. You guys aren't crazy, we just thought you were playing NTSC.

"PAL / NTSC Differences Thread"
Adjustments
- Falco's dair spikes will not spike near the end of the animation, instead generating a weak knockback that sends the opponent slightly upward and away (A vid on DC++ demonstrates this, search for 'PALfalcodair')
- Marth's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike in PAL (and hence can be recovered from)
- Sheik's down throw now allows the the opponent more horizontal DI and hence, can escape chain grabbing, tilts and aerials. The only thing that cannot, or is very hard to escape is a well timed dash attack on low percents. Other than that, Sheik cannot follow up with anything else directly from a down throw if the opponent DIs and techs/double jumps correctly.
- Fox can tech out of Falcos down throw in PAL.
- Bowser's down throw now hits Mr G&W.
- Link's spin attack (up b) doesn't semi spike in PAL.
- Captain Falcon's A A A combo will continue to attack after the 3rd A automatically in NTSC, but stops in PAL version.
- Samus cannot 'bomb out' of grapple beam, for example, if samus sets a bomb and grapple beams and the bomb hits her in ntsc, she will bounce out of the animation, this does not work in PAL.
- PAL (and NTSC version 1.1 and 1.2) has freeze framing*
- You cannot hit the sandbag once it hits the ground in HRC in PAL

thanx for looking that up for me man... i dont feel like such a noob now....
sorry quak but i was rite man... lol
but you were rite too

 

[xelad1]

once again mounds of elitest bull crap....
hes not better... ive already said that.... just one more thing to say then.... xelad your a **** head.... thats better.... and thats the truth... bottom line... the end....

wtf how the hell was my post a bunch of elitist bull crap, it wasn't even a flame. I was pointing out my opinion. You sir are a jack@ss for making this thread. Just like your other useless threads such as this one http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=102386 <------------ i've never heard anyone stupider in my life.

 

[captainlukey]

wtf how the hell was my post a bunch of elitist bull crap, it wasn't even a flame. I was pointing out my opinion. You sir are a jack@ss for making this thread. Just like your other useless threads such as this one http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=102386 <------------ i've never heard anyone stupider in my life.

come on man, im sorry.... i was being a jerk... however ima sig that... ive never laughed so hard before.... your so right.... your so rite....

how do i get qoutes in my signature thingy?

 

[captainlukey]

this is another reason i said wat i said check this crap out

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2177525350605773309

 

[xelad1]

this is another reason i said wat i said check this crap out

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2177525350605773309

well i mean its not like its impossible for a lower tier character character to do well if they know the matchup, its just that falco has many many advantages over kirby. Heck go look up the taj vs. forward videos, with taj playing mewtwo, he absolutely ***** with him but it doesn't mean that in general mewtwo is a good character to play against falco.... it probably means that taj knows forwards falco very well and taj is the best mewtwo... sooo

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

3. he cant meteor cancel that ****. falcos dair's a spike, not a meteor

 

[Vro]

Why do you reply to a 1 year old thread, repeating what someone already posted?

 

[Pink Reaper]

This thread needs moar Eggm talking about why Kirby ***** Falco.