Thinking about Maining Bower Jr. (Any Tips?)

[KirbCider]

Personally I haven't played too much as Bowser Jr; however I feel like I don't do too terribly with him despite the fact I don't know much about him (Combos, Set-ups, etc). Lately though I've been kind of drawn to him and have been playing with him a bit more frequently, mainly when I feel like just playing at my own leisure instead of trying to play to win (if that makes sense anyways...).

I've even tried to stick with Bowser Jr specifically in For Glory today to get some practice in and get a better feel for the character. I gotta say I do like that he has plenty of tools to use and the fact that he is pretty sturdy is also a plus. I will say he was a character that has never stuck out to me as far as interest goes before, but hey you may never know who you may end up liking in the end, huh?

So now that all of that is out of the way is there any tips or anything I should specifically learn about?

I've already been looking into a few Combo Videos here and there, but are there any Pros and Cons I should be aware of?

 

[Conn1496]

First of all, be very aware that his Primary recovery is incredibly gimpable if your opponent is good. His side-B however, is also pretty punishable and both should be used when caution when recovering. -make sure you've rode out your side-B (if you'll excuse the pun) as long as you can before you jump out of it, as it - like a jump - can be stolen from you at a second's notice.

Second, learn how to play around Mechakoopas. That's not to say "learn how to use them all the time", they're a good tool, but bring power more in their set-ups and surprise factor. Learn how your opponent reacts to them, and capitalize on it. This way you'll learn if they're worth using or not - also be prepared to avoid them yourself if your opponent has a reflector or picks them up. I put this second because it's a huge problem with people who start using this character - they just can't handle when this powerful tool is either countered or just straight-up used against them.

Next, I'd suggest the obvious - learning kill moves and options. While they kinda struggle with this, they still have some good ones, and some surprising ones at later %s. I'd advise trying for side-b, up-b, hammer swing combos at around 100% as they sometimes kill (You can even not speed your kart up to let this combo at later %s.). If your opponent starts jumping your side-b, you can usually jump out of it and n-air or simply spin out to catch them off guard (Though the latter is more punishable.). -and get used to that F-smash because it's your strongest kill-move - it's incredibly good at covering certain movements too, so don't skimp on it when you're trying to catch rollers. U-smash is an incredible tool too - with a multi hit hit-box and the ability to be JCd you'll be golden for catching people off-guard for easy kills. (There are way more kill moves, honestly, I'd try training out to really test it. -and try every move. At later %s even Koops' Jab can kill, so don't ignore it just because it doesn't seem powerful.)

Finally, just get used to what's safe. Pretty basic and self explanatory, I don't wanna be seeing no side-B spinout approaches or attempts at MK setups while your opponent is approaching. Your airs are relatively good, F-air, B-air and U-air can all be short hopped, and N-air is pretty fast, lingers and incredibly good on hit and can be full-hopped. D-air is really kinda mediocre, IMO, but it can pressure shields and has a nasty land-box on it, so it's not all bad. Your f-tilt can save your skin if you're too close since it comes out pretty fast and knocks foes back, and d-tilt is just pretty amazing in general, so you probably wanna get used to using it as a roll punish or to put off ground approaches.

Now my personal tips:
Get used to using up-B offensively. Trust me, it pays.
Koops are pretty good at gimping, don't skimp on the gimp, yo.
Do not forget D-smash exists. It's pretty fast, bi-directional, and much safer on shield than a lot of smashes are. -not completely safe, but safer.
It's all about the mix-ups and set-ups. Catch your opponent off guard for an advantage and seize it with powerful follow-ups.
Remember - you can pick up your mechakoopas too! Get glide-tossing! (-and the explosion won't hurt you, either!)
Side-B can be "JC"d for a slightly faster start-up. Simple, yet useful.
(Also, use side-B slightly later into your recovery, I've had times where the pull-back from the initial move has pushed me backwards over the blast-line. >_>'')

Hope atleast some of this helps!

 

[Duck SMASH!]

First of all, be very aware that his Primary recovery is incredibly gimpable if your opponent is good. His side-B however, is also pretty punishable and both should be used when caution when recovering. -make sure you've rode out your side-B (if you'll excuse the pun) as long as you can before you jump out of it, as it - like a jump - can be stolen from you at a second's notice.


Finally, just get used to what's safe. Pretty basic and self explanatory, I don't wanna be seeing no side-B spinout approaches or attempts at MK setups while your opponent is approaching. Your airs are relatively good, F-air, B-air and U-air can all be short hopped, and N-air is pretty fast, lingers and incredibly good on hit and can be full-hopped. D-air is really kinda mediocre, IMO, but it can pressure shields and has a nasty land-box on it, so it's not all bad. Your f-tilt can save your skin if you're too close since it comes out pretty fast and knocks foes back, and d-tilt is just pretty amazing in general, so you probably wanna get used to using it as a roll punish or to put off ground approaches.

Now my personal tips:
Get used to using up-B offensively. Trust me, it pays.
Koops are pretty good at gimping, don't skimp on the gimp, yo.
Do not forget D-smash exists. It's pretty fast, bi-directional, and much safer on shield than a lot of smashes are. -not completely safe, but safer.

There are a lot of good points in this post. I will add clarification to some of them and rebuttals to others.

Jr's Up B is gimpable because the threshold for you getting your car back after being hit is KB based. If you get hit by a weak attack that doesn't have much KB you won't get your car back but will keep falling. Stuff like Mario's Nair, Pit's arrows, Sheik Needles, Falco Laser (NOT FOX LASER), and generally any lasting sex kick like moves will do you in.
YOU CAN AIR DODGE WHILE OUT OF YOUR KART, BOTH ASCENDING AND DESCENDING. Use this to dodge moves that would otherwise gimp you (But don't forget that you must still snap to ledge and you can't do this while air dodging or attacking)

Side B is great but don't abuse it. Use it primarily when reading to land punishes - the startup is so long that most of the time your opponent will shield by the time you get to them.
Watch out for jump canceling kart dash above them and trying to use an aerial - they can Usmash OoS and potentially kill you in that scenario, especially someone like Mario or Fox.

Dsmash is hardly safe. I would not get too comfy using it unless you want a HARD read on someone rolling. And even then the hitbox is out for only two frames, so you can still miss the punish.

Bowser Jr. has excellent aerial mobility. If you can get an opponent into the air, do it. You will be able to string several aerials together on them, like uair into Nair, or Fair/bair, land on them with a Dair and continue your assault, or even tomahawk and usmash them before they land. Focus on stringing aerials together on various opponents (Not just heavyweights like Ganon and DK. Try getting it on lighter characters like Peach, for example). Uair in particular is great for juggling and can lead into other attacks because it's so fast.
Because all of Jr's aerials are disjointed you can outright beat attacks like Mario's Bair or Sheik's Nair (her fair has ridiculous range though).

Also, if you really want to edgeguard with cannonballs as a mixup, you can ledge cancel them - when releasing the cannonball, if you position yourself so that the recoil from the shot sends you into the ledge you'll instantly snap to it and suffer no endlag. Use this to prepare a punish for your opponent's inevitable air dodge or evasive action.

 

[KirbCider]

First of all, be very aware that his Primary recovery is incredibly gimpable if your opponent is good. His side-B however, is also pretty punishable and both should be used when caution when recovering. -make sure you've rode out your side-B (if you'll excuse the pun) as long as you can before you jump out of it, as it - like a jump - can be stolen from you at a second's notice.

I've already noticed how gimp-able his Up B can be, especially since I embarrassingly got gimped at 18% in a 2V2 match the other day once after trying to edge guard an opponent with a high percentage and trying to recover. I would of gotten away with it too if it weren't for that meddling Mario! As for his Side B I've definitely have been using it to my advantage when recovering, yet mistakes can be made sometimes. His drift has screwed me in the air quite a few times so that's something I need to get used to for sure.

Second, learn how to play around Mechakoopas. That's not to say "learn how to use them all the time", they're a good tool, but bring power more in their set-ups and surprise factor. Learn how your opponent reacts to them, and capitalize on it. This way you'll learn if they're worth using or not - also be prepared to avoid them yourself if your opponent has a reflector or picks them up. I put this second because it's a huge problem with people who start using this character - they just can't handle when this powerful tool is either countered or just straight-up used against them.

Sadly I don't use the MechaKoopas too often just yet unless I want them to serve as a distraction, or rather a good Shield Grabbing option as some tend to shield it more than anything else. I do know to avoid them myself though when they are reflected.

Now my personal tips:
Get used to using up-B offensively. Trust me, it pays.
Koops are pretty good at gimping, don't skimp on the gimp, yo.
Do not forget D-smash exists. It's pretty fast, bi-directional, and much safer on shield than a lot of smashes are. -not completely safe, but safer.
It's all about the mix-ups and set-ups. Catch your opponent off guard for an advantage and seize it with powerful follow-ups.
Remember - you can pick up your mechakoopas too! Get glide-tossing! (-and the explosion won't hurt you, either!)
Side-B can be "JC"d for a slightly faster start-up. Simple, yet useful.
(Also, use side-B slightly later into your recovery, I've had times where the pull-back from the initial move has pushed me backwards over the blast-line. >_>'')

Hope atleast some of this helps!

The ones bolded are stuff I've been already taking advantage of more or less, but as for the gimping I feel like I should play it safe until I learn most of his moves a bit better. Going for a gimp can get me potentially gimped if I end up getting too cocky about using him.

Safety first! Knowledge brings me more power!

Jr's Up B is gimpable because the threshold for you getting your car back after being hit is KB based. If you get hit by a weak attack that doesn't have much KB you won't get your car back but will keep falling. Stuff like Mario's Nair, Pit's arrows, Sheik Needles, Falco Laser (NOT FOX LASER), and generally any lasting sex kick like moves will do you in.

YOU CAN AIR DODGE WHILE OUT OF YOUR KART, BOTH ASCENDING AND DESCENDING. Use this to dodge moves that would otherwise gimp you (But don't forget that you must still snap to ledge and you can't do this while air dodging or attacking

This is something I was seriously wondering about. I'm glad my thoughts were correct about that Gimp effect. Also I didn't even know I could air dodge after being ejected. I knew I could attack, but not that. Speaking of which I have an insanely hard time trying to time those air attacks after being ejected. I always end up doing it too soon. Does he really pull out his hammer that quick?

Dsmash is hardly safe. I would not get too comfy using it unless you want a HARD read on someone rolling. And even then the hitbox is out for only two frames, so you can still miss the punish.

I've noticed this, and have made plenty of mistakes trying it. As a King Dedede Main I'm already used to some laggy/slow Smash Attacks more or less, but one thing I need to get used to is that Down Smash. I'm too used to using them with others so I'll need to adjust.

Bowser Jr. has excellent aerial mobility. If you can get an opponent into the air, do it. You will be able to string several aerials together on them, like uair into Nair, or Fair/bair, land on them with a Dair and continue your assault, or even tomahawk and usmash them before they land. Focus on stringing aerials together on various opponents (Not just heavyweights like Ganon and DK. Try getting it on lighter characters like Peach, for example). Uair in particular is great for juggling and can lead into other attacks because it's so fast.
Because all of Jr's aerials are disjointed you can outright beat attacks like Mario's Bair or Sheik's Nair (her fair has ridiculous range though).

I guess this is why I don't do too bad with him despite not knowing much about him just yet.

I'm very aerial based already as far as my play-style goes. I still need to learn about all those strings and combos though. If what you say is true about his aerial mobility then I may not have much trouble using him at all. Still gotta get used to his moves though.

Thanks in advance guys! I'll be sure to put this information to good use.

 

[Conn1496]

Hey, don't worry about not using the MKs so much. Trust me - as you get used to playing Koops, there's times where they feel more like a hinderance to set-up than to just not and play safe. They're a tool that gets more surprising and therefore stronger when used sparingly, but also a very powerful tool in and of themselves, so don't worry if you don't use them much!

Dsmash is hardly safe. I would not get too comfy using it unless you want a HARD read on someone rolling. And even then the hitbox is out for only two frames, so you can still miss the punish.

Yeah, it's not safe by any means, but what smash is? -it is safer though, so it's got less punish options than the other smashes you have, and I think that that's a big deal. Not by much, but it is.

Though yeah, you make a good point, like any good D-smash it's primary use is to punish rolls and making reads, so... Get used to remembering you have that tool. lol

 

[KirbCider]

Hey, don't worry about not using the MKs so much. Trust me - as you get used to playing Koops, there's times where they feel more like a hinderance to set-up than to just not and play safe. They're a tool that gets more surprising and therefore stronger when used sparingly, but also a very powerful tool in and of themselves, so don't worry if you don't use them much!

I suppose it depends. I think I'm sort of getting used to his moves more or less so I've started to use them more often. I actually managed to gimp a spammy Charizard player tonight by jumping over him when he used his side B, and when he tried to recover I just tossed out a Mecha Koopa over the edge and it ended up hitting him. That of course, resulted in his death. Was a pretty good feeling.

Either way, I've been using them more as Edge Guarding tools more than anything else currently. That, and for obvious grab Set-Ups.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Please for the love of god do not use down smash lmao. Idk why anyone would consider it fast: it's frame 15 if memory serves. Also it could actually could be argued that it's his least safe smash attack on shield since it has a minimal disjoint when compared to fsmash and no ability to shieldpoke/catch people who drop shield early offguard like upsmash. The hitbox is also only active for 2 frames meaning that you can make a read on a roll or spotdodge and still have it easily miss due to a lack of lingering hitbox.

Dsmash isn't totally useless and you can occasionally net earlyish (the risk reward for it is pretty damn skewed in a negative sense) kills with it but Its only real consistent use is catching people offguard when they try to approach you from the side while you're on a platform.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I don't consider D-Smash that useless - maybe it might be kinda say, nastiest smash to punish from BJ, it also hits quite hard when used correctly. All those below-100% KOs just from a good roll read where I can charge up one as I can see 'em do that. Still, could use a buff in means of being usable.

Anyway, a lot has been said about BJ here, so I'll just leave my own tips to some specials:

Mecha-Koopas - At foremost, imagine them as stage control before a tool to anything else in your mind - whether scouting for shield-grabs or trying to pressure them. A good tip: incase the Mecha Koopa gets reflected back at you, you can use Neutral B to cancel it out, as the cannonball will destroy MK. So you can make use of MKs tad safer around these guys.

Neutral B - While not necessarily the best projectile in the game, you can use it a bit like Diddy's Peanuts, throwing a ball now and then as a slow hitbox for your opponent to avoid. It can catch them off-guard now and then, and if practiced properly, can make Neutral B a decent projectile trap. Just don't attempt to shoot at them from far or anything because they'd always jump over it. So much anticipation.

Up B - A lot has been already said, but one big thing: Up B is a FANTASTIC escaping tool. I remember now and then getting out of hitstun in some attacks by leaving the Clown Car exploding and sending the opponent away. Also it's very versatile "fake-out" tool during approaching with Side B. Usually the opponent tries to hit you out of it with more prioritizing attack, in which case, you go leave an unsuspecting Up B on their face. I usually do this during a start of a battle.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Lol this thread is starting to feel like the forum did back in December when everyone was talking about how great the cannon was.

I'll just say this: In most situations (and especially when you're reading a roll) fsmash is better than dsmash- with the main exception being if fsmash is stale. Fsmash comes out 3 frames later, but in exchange for that you get a hitbox that lasts so long it can mindlessly cover a spotdodge (plus it ends quicker and it kills earlier).

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I won't belabour the point, but the amount of times I see bjr's on stream throwing out dsmash and losing a stock for it is cringe-inducing. The 7 years of endlag on it make is reeeeally not worth it.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Lol this thread is starting to feel like the forum did back in December when everyone was talking about how great the cannon was.

I'll just say this: In most situations (and especially when you're reading a roll) fsmash is better than dsmash- with the main exception being if fsmash is stale. Fsmash comes out 3 frames later, but in exchange for that you get a hitbox that lasts so long it can mindlessly cover a spotdodge (plus it ends quicker and it kills earlier).

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I won't belabour the point, but the amount of times I see bjr's on stream throwing out dsmash and losing a stock for it is cringe-inducing. The 7 years of endlag on it make is reeeeally not worth it.

I mainly use F-Smash as well, but D-Smash I wanna keep in for possible mixups or hard reads, especially if I won't lose too much momentum in the long run despite getting punished (plus the part of it being stale, but again, U-Smash would work better too.)
But again, this is a good note to pick.

Possibly I wonder if it means we could possibly either hope they make D-Smash more in par with other smashes in means of usability, I guess? Any buff to BJ could be sweet however these days, though he's decent. Seems like D-Smash just needs less lag or lingering hitboxes to give it more reward, or it's only ideal to be considered for use incase you have a nice percentage lead/momentum in the match.