These Old Folks Still Got What It Takes (B/W RMT)

[kirbyraeg]

No need for spoilers here, I figured I'd just explore what the 1st Gen could do in the newest metagame. No playtesting yet since I just made it tonight, but it's definitely going to have to have some major changes in order to become a useable team, and I'll obviously edit it as it gets played with.

Basic idea is to focus on Gen 1 and its ability to still function well despite all the new toys trainers got to play with! I think this has a good chance to compete in the metagame without having playtested it at all just because it does what it needs to do and should work pretty well.

Aerodactyl (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Anxiety
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -HP)
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Taunt

Everybody's seen this and knows what it does. It's fast enough to get rocks up and that's really all it needs to do. Coverage is nice, Taunt will keep things from getting greedy and trying to set up themselves...self-explanatory. All its traits are basically worthless but at least this one has a chance of doing something.

Charizard (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Solar Power
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam

This is a powerful sweeper in the sun, a nice revenge killer with a Scarf, and usually won't have to deal with rocks because of Aerodactyl. If rocks do wind up on the field, I think he shouldn't have too many problems sweeping short of priority simply because a base 100 with dual-stab Fire Blast will cause a lot of pokemon great problems. Dragon Pulse is good for coverage against dumb stuff like Kingdra. SolarBeam is an option for coverage vs. Waters, but I'm considering HP Grass simply because Politoed switches in all day with his good SpDef and autorain. Air Slash does good damage and is a pretty conservative move if I'm not sure of what will come in. Also yes, zomg Charizard is at +1 the entire time because of Solar Power.

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Encourage
EVs: 40 Atk / 252 SAtk / 216 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spe, -SDef)

OR

88 Atk / 252 SAtk / 168 Spe with a Rash nature

- Thunderbolt
- Earth Power/Earthquake
- Brick Break Superpower
- Fire Blast/Ice Beam

I think this guy will become one of those unexpected beasts of the metagame because of Encourage and his impeccable type coverage. Fire/Electric, STAB Earth Power, and Brick Break, all at x1.5 power. It's a **** shame Sucker Punch is illegal with Encourage because it would give perfect mixed coverage, and I'm not sure that's even something any other Pokémon can boast (Electric/Ice special and Dark/Fighting physical). Outspeeds base 80s, who seem to be pretty common in this metagame... Unsure about whether to use Earthquake or Earth Power as I'm pretty sure both get boosted power with Encourage (x2 vs underground opponents, LOL) but I guess the EVs depend on which one I choose to use. Ice Beam is a good choice also, but I'm leaning towards Fire Blast simply because of its extra power under sun and Nidoking's ability to hammer Waters with Thunderbolt and rare Rock types with either Brick Break or his Ground move.

edit: brick break isn't boosted by encourage. Superpower it is~

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 16 HP/144 Def/96 SpDef/252 Spe
Calm/Timid Nature (+SDef/Spe, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Sludge Bomb

**** Jaroda, THIS is the best subseeder in the game. This is Jumpluff with actual bulk and better typing and the stats to actually allow it to better combat other Grass types. It speed ties with Shanderra with no weather, so you even get a chance to put it out of commission if you mispredict it coming in, allowing you to substitute stall it to kingdom come. With Chlorophyll up being trapped isn't so bad at all, as you turn the tables on him with doubled speed. Only a grass move for coverage is too bad, but going without STAB is asking for trouble (and Sleep Powder can cover most of the other problems subseed runs into). Sludge Bomb would give reliable damage vs. Jaroda, but I can't justify not running Sleep Powder and Energy Ball gives reliable damage...

Ninetales (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 96 HP / 160 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Fire Blast

Defensive Ninetales? It's a novel concept, but Fire typing isn't awful defensively and it has decent bulk (augmented by Will-o-wisp and Sun). Base 100 SpDef doesn't go to waste, as being neutral to water under its own sun gives it the opportunity to tank hits and counter accordingly with Energy Ball. Switching in to Water sweepers is aided by sun, and he can outspeed and KO most Water sweepers with either Energy Ball or a boosted Fire Blast for Ludicolo. HP Ground is for those fire types who would love to switch in and use their own powerful Fire moves. This is primarily a support/niche counter to alternate weather teams but feel free to suggest different moves, this is basically a filler spot because sun is critical to grant sweeping potential to my other Pokémon and clear out Steel-types for the final sweeper...

Gengar @ Choice Scarf
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
Timid / Levitate

Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast

lolrevengekiller.

Made a couple small changes.

 

[Wave⁂]

I was really confused until I saw I Ninetales.

Ninetales learns SolarBeam.

ScarfChomp tears your team apart. ScarfOnonokusu (axe head) sweeps your team after Charizard is dead.

Sludge Bomb Venusaur doesn't seem like a bad idea considering how many Fire-type attacks you've got to take out Steels.

 

[Tomo Takino]

Your aerodactyl isn't going to get you much of anything in this metagame.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I was really confused until I saw I Ninetales.

Ninetales learns SolarBeam.

ScarfChomp tears your team apart. ScarfOnonokusu (axe head) sweeps your team after Charizard is dead.

Sludge Bomb Venusaur doesn't seem like a bad idea considering how many Fire-type attacks you've got to take out Steels.

Only reason I didn't give Ninetales SolarBeam is so that he won't get ****ed over when a Politoed comes in. I just realized he doesn't do much to defensive Politoed anyway even with solarbeam, so perhaps running Toxic over Energy Ball would be better in the long run.

Forgot about Garchomp, who will definitely be OU considering everything else that's running around. Worst comes to worst, I could swap out Tauros for ScarfGar to deal with boosting Dragons, since Encourage isn't QUITE as good as I was hoping for it to be...Venusaur is a last-ditch counter to them though because he can outspeed them in sun and put them to sleep, although that can be predicted around easily. I guess any set-up/scarfed dragon will give me problems though since steel-type didn't exist in 1st gen.

Sludge Bomb is a pretty good option, actually. It can 2hko Ononokusu if it comes in on rocks thinking it can set up on Venusaur.

Your aerodactyl isn't going to get you much of anything in this metagame.

He does what he needs to do...? I know SR isn't of critical importance this gen, so maybe Golem would do better with Explosion so he can do some damage on the way out.

 

[Tomo Takino]

He does what he needs to do...? I know SR isn't of critical importance this gen, so maybe Golem would do better with Explosion so he can do some damage on the way out.

No he doesn't. He did last gen but he doesn't anymore. He's no longer the fastest taunt user, he has to deal with Magic Mirror and Magic Coat, Mischievous Heart really puts a damper on him, as well as having to deal with several new offensive leads that will use him to get their offense rolling. He's just not a viable lead anymore.

 

[kirbyraeg]

No he doesn't. He did last gen but he doesn't anymore. He's no longer the fastest taunt user, he has to deal with Magic Mirror and Magic Coat, Mischievous Heart really puts a damper on him, as well as having to deal with several new offensive leads that will use him to get their offense rolling. He's just not a viable lead anymore.

That's the point, you play him differently.

How many *******es are going to switch an Espeon in right away if they have it? Just Stone Edge first, depending on what kind of anti-lead people have you can tell whether they'll be packing an Espy or not.

How many things that are good actually HAVE Mischievous Heart? Basically none, 2hko with either attack as you please and come in to SR later since they basically are unable to 1hko.

How many things are actually going to bother to run Mirror Coat? Probably none, frankly, because they'll just put Espeon or Xatu (lol) on their team instead as the ability is infinitely better than the move.

Aerodactyl's offense isn't terrible, he does still have QuakeEdge and decent attack, plus focus sash for those who get greedy with his mediocre offense and try to set up anyway. His speed also lets him come in against non-speed boosting sweepers and shut them down/weaken them enough for a teammate to take care of them.

 

[Tomo Takino]

That's the point, you play him differently.

How? you die and don't set up rocks instead of dieing and setting up rocks?

How many *******es are going to switch an Espeon in right away if they have it? Just Stone Edge first, depending on what kind of anti-lead people have you can tell whether they'll be packing an Espy or not.

Or I can just run an Espeon at first and get my duel screens, stopping anyone from running rocks and then switch into a pokemon to set up using the additional bulk of those screens. Or I can run Trick Room and do the same, or I can abuse any of her many support options.
Lead Aerodactyl to Duel Screens Espeon
Rock Slide
45.2% - 53.3%

Stone Edge:
60.2% - 71%
Now I have my reflect up, and and have a decent chance of getting Yawn, Wish, or Light Screen next turn.

This is just my espeon, there are others like it but this one is mine. Others will abuse other moves like Baton Pass and stat boost. You can't not hope to predict everyone with a pokemon as limited as Aerodactyl.

How many things that are good actually HAVE Mischievous Heart? Basically none, 2hko with either attack as you please and come in to SR later since they basically are unable to 1hko.

Lol. Not true at all. First off, if you are coming back in, there are FAR better pokemon for this role. Aero can't come into anything, especially not after taking a hit and losing its sash. If you are going to be forced out, you can't use a suicide lead and expect to come back in. That's like saying that your suicide bomber is going to become a general.

Secondly, there are plenty good pokemon with mischeous heart, and mischeovious heart is such a good ability it essentially makes these pokemon good, such as Erufuun. The genies are incredibly good pokemon and make for excelent leads with their wide movepool, good speed, and attacking stats, you can expect to see them around often.

How many things are actually going to bother to run Mirror Coat? Probably none, frankly, because they'll just put Espeon or Xatu (lol) on their team instead as the ability is infinitely better than the move.

Nah probably not. Magic Coat has several good uses, and Espeon and Xatu are pretty underwhelming, only Espeon having any true potential but relying on Focus Sash in most cases. Running Magic Coat on a lead is like running Taunt with priority for an anti-lead.

Aerodactyl's offense isn't terrible

Not for lower tiers I'm sure.

focus sash for those who get greedy with his mediocre offense and try to set up anyway.

His speed also lets him come in against non-speed boosting sweepers and shut them down/weaken them enough for a teammate to take care of them.

You are going to shut down Machamp? Good luck with that.
Let's also not forget how incredibly weak you are to scarf tricksters.


Aerodactyl is a poor lead in today's environment that is overhyped and overused simply because people want rocks despite that teams prepare for rocks regardless. In 5th gen, he's practically useless.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Alright, so move past my ****ty aero lead and look at stuff again.

 

[PKNintendo]

Aero isn't that good in this gen. You want a bulky a SR, not a suicide lead. (Suicide leads are dead in this gen)

Your choice Scarf Charizard is horrible. It is bad enough it's not strong to abuse the scarfm but it has a 4X weakness, meaning when he's forced out he can only come back in one more time (god forbid there's Sandstorm which incredibly common in gen 5) Please just get rid of it ASAP.

Nidoking is pointless in a Sunny day team. Drop him for a sunny day abuser like Exegguttor.

Venusaur is actually not half bad, but you want a pure special sweeper set.
(252 SpA / 252 Spe with Solar Beam / Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder / Synthesis)

Your Ninetails is pretty pointless. Why do you have both Toxic and Will-o-wisp? Stick with on or run a pure special attacking set with Nasty plot.

All in all this is a sunny day team. You want pokemon who can abuse that to fullest
(Chlorophyll sweepers) and a back up Sunny Day user. (Anything remotely bulky with Sunny Day)

 

[The Real Gamer]

**** Jaroda, THIS is the best subseeder in the game.

Erufuun says no.