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The Whole Rosalina Nerf Argument

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JayWon

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Did you guys hear what Zero said about Rosalina on his interview after grand finals on MVG Sandstorm?

C'mon guys. Stop with the "Rosalina is the underdog" crap all of you guys are trying to sell. And dang if you really think I was ranting and lost my mind? lol wow okay. Some of you guys are literally delusional. You guys literally are displaying behavior of those deluded people in cults. Wake up.

Edit: yep reporting me just proves my point further.
 
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ChikoLad

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Did you guys hear what Zero said about Rosalina on his interview after grand finals on MVG Sandstorm?
No, actually. Maybe you could try linking to the statement if you want to try being constructive. The rest of you post is just flaming.
 

JayWon

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No, actually. Maybe you could try linking to the statement if you want to try being constructive. The rest of you post is just flaming.
lol dang so hostile. Sorry you see it as flaming. Anyways it was live. No vods I think. But yeah look out for it if it pops up on youtube. Grand Finals Nairo vs Zero after interview. Idk

Take care!
 

JayWon

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I don't get it...
irony

Sounds to me like you just need more practice with the matchup.

My rant shows I have some knowledge of going against Rosalina. In fact, I'm sure all the pros have a lot of practice with the match up. Doesn't change the fact on anything I said.
 
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Nadeko Sengoku

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Did you guys hear what Zero said about Rosalina on his interview after grand finals on MVG Sandstorm?

C'mon guys. Stop with the "Rosalina is the underdog" crap all of you guys are trying to sell. And dang if you really think I was ranting and lost my mind? lol wow okay. Some of you guys are literally delusional. You guys literally are displaying behavior of those deluded people in cults. Wake up.
You wanna quote the guy who claimed diddy kong is broken complained about him, and then proceeded to play him at every tourney he went to afterwards? ZeRo is not god, what he says is an opinion not a fact. You're a really salty person and I really hope you're trolling with your posts.
 

Gunla

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My rant shows I have some knowledge of going against Rosalina. In fact, I'm sure all the pros have a lot of practice with the match up. Doesn't change the fact on anything I said.
Please do not double post. Instead, use the editing function.

Also, as a general reminder for the thread, please simmer it down.
 

mario123007

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What the...
Well, we all know Rosalina only has a minor nerf, but Diddy turns out to get the most nerf. We'll see how will the MU goes.
If this thread turns into an arument, I really hope this thread to be closed, since this thread isn't necessary anymore.
 

AnchorTea

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What the...
Well, we all know Rosalina only has a minor nerf, but Diddy turns out to get the most nerf. We'll see how will the MU goes.
If this thread turns into an arument, I really hope this thread to be closed, since this thread isn't necessary anymore.
People still want Rosa to be nerfed like Diddy (Check Gamefaqs for immediate results) There still could be at least one more patch, since Lucas is a DLC, and according to Mewtwo. We might get one more balance patch.
 

mario123007

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People still want Rosa to be nerfed like Diddy (Check Gamefaqs for immediate results) There still could be at least one more patch, since Lucas is a DLC, and according to Mewtwo. We might get one more balance patch.
To be nerf like Diddy, but turns out it's they nerf Diddy like Rosalina. Or is it that some of them also hope that she can be more nerf than Diddy? If so, then that's overrequested.
Maybe... but personally, I don't really want a balance patch when every DLC character releases. I think it's best to focus on game bug fixes rather than balancing character strength.
 

mega4000

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You wanna quote the guy who claimed diddy kong is broken complained about him, and then proceeded to play him at every tourney he went to afterwards? ZeRo is not god, what he says is an opinion not a fact. You're a really salty person and I really hope you're trolling with your posts.
expect zero starting using rosalina in order to prove how broken she is very very soon.

lol dang so hostile. Sorry you see it as flaming. Anyways it was live. No vods I think. But yeah look out for it if it pops up on youtube. Grand Finals Nairo vs Zero after interview. Idk

Take care!
I think you should at least explain what he say instead of wait for the video.
 
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ChikoLad

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expect zero starting using rosalina in order to prove how broken she is very very soon.
If that's his intention, he hasn't done a good job of it so far. None of the top players really have demonstrated Rosalina's full potential, because they make her "Miss Defensive and Campy", even though playing as her like that all of the time is one of the worst things you can do.
 

mario123007

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If that's his intention, he hasn't done a good job of it so far. None of the top players really have demonstrated Rosalina's full potential, because they make her "Miss Defensive and Campy", even though playing as her like that all of the time is one of the worst things you can do.
I believe only Dabuz did.
Glad that Dabuz had made a Rosalina guide. Zero played Rosalina well, but not better than Dabuz. Dabaz had said Rosalina isn't the top tuer, but he never had said she was broken.
 

Iron Kraken

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A lot of people seem to forget that Rosalina was heavily nerfed in 1.0.4. In 1.0.6, it was Diddy's turn.

Although I think future balance patches to some extent are still possible, I think Sakurai is pretty much done with the heavy nerfs. Time will tell of course, but that's how I see it.
 

ChikoLad

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A lot of people seem to forget that Rosalina was heavily nerfed in 1.0.4. In 1.0.6, it was Diddy's turn.

Although I think future balance patches to some extent are still possible, I think Sakurai is pretty much done with the heavy nerfs. Time will tell of course, but that's how I see it.
I really wouldn't call the 1.0.4 patch a HEAVY nerf. It was moderate at most, as she got some significant buffs in that patch too.
 

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If that's his intention, he hasn't done a good job of it so far. None of the top players really have demonstrated Rosalina's full potential, because they make her "Miss Defensive and Campy", even though playing as her like that all of the time is one of the worst things you can do.
Being an opportunist does have its advantages though, especially when you're permitted to use custom specials.
 

Iron Kraken

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I really wouldn't call the 1.0.4 patch a HEAVY nerf. It was moderate at most, as she got some significant buffs in that patch too.
The nerfs weren't nearly as heavy as Diddy got this time, but they were still significant. Her throws were made to kill much, much later, U-Smash was made to KO about 10% later. Hit boxes on attacks like D-Tilt and Nair were nerfed, more cool down was added for D-Smash and grab, damage of Nair was reduced by 4%/1%, Luma respawn timer was increased by nearly 4 seconds, etc.

The only real "buffs" she received were the shorter distance of Luma shot and the faster Luma recall speed, and calling those "buffs" were questionable. 1.0.4 was a very significant nerf for Rosa. And I have a feeling that Sakurai does not want to give a character two rounds of significant nerfs. The fact there aren't any even prominent Rosalina players in Japan adds to my belief that we're not going to be seeing her get any more significant nerfs.
 
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ChikoLad

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Aside from the throw nerf (the only one that mattered was the back throw), nothing about her nerfs was significant. They were miniscule tweaks that increased her skill floor a bit, nothing more. The Luma coming back faster and the shorter uncharged Luma Shot were big buffs, as was decreasing the knockback on N-air (giving her an aerial combo linker).

If you thought that nerf was a heavy one, you probably need to do some real work on certain aspects of Rosalina.
 

mario123007

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I really wouldn't call the 1.0.4 patch a HEAVY nerf. It was moderate at most, as she got some significant buffs in that patch too.
Well, if you check Smashwiki, you will notice that Rosalina did get a lot of nerfs. Only some buffs on Luma.
Aside from the throw nerf (the only one that mattered was the back throw), nothing about her nerfs was significant. They were miniscule tweaks that increased her skill floor a bit, nothing more. The Luma coming back faster and the shorter uncharged Luma Shot were big buffs, as was decreasing the knockback on N-air (giving her an aerial combo linker).

If you thought that nerf was a heavy one, you probably need to do some real work on certain aspects of Rosalina.
We will just see how it goes. I hope Rosalina can get back to the top tier soon.
 

ChikoLad

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Well, if you check Smashwiki, you will notice that Rosalina did get a lot of nerfs. Only some buffs on Luma.

We will just see how it goes. I hope Rosalina can get back to the top tier soon.
"A lot of nerfs" doesn't mean much on it's own (also SmashWiki is marking some buffs as "neutral" for some reason, which is making the nerfs look bigger in relation).

You could nerf every move of a character to do 1% less damage, but that wouldn't make any difference if the character was just fundamentally well designed in movement, launch power, spacing, etc.

We will just see how it goes. I hope Rosalina can get back to the top tier soon.
She doesn't need to get "back", she's been on it since the game came out.
 
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mario123007

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"A lot of nerfs" doesn't mean much on it's own (also SmashWiki is marking some buffs as "neutral" for some reason, which is making the nerfs look bigger in relation).

You could nerf every move of a character to do 1% less damage, but that wouldn't make any difference if the character was just fundamentally well designed in movement, launch power, spacing, etc.



She doesn't need to get "back", she's been on it since the game came out.
Um.. isn't that even a 1% damage will make quite a significant difference? If you stack the damage up, it will have a big difference on damage. Knockback, frams, are just too hard to tell the difference sometimes
Kind of weird that they were made the Luma buff as buff(With green icon) don't know why they changed that, I'll go check the page's history.

I mean even more top? Nah, probably not, it's may just made Diddy slide down to the same tier as Rosalina.
 

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Guys, Rosalina is not op, she is just a great character, shes kinda of like Brawls snake where shes difficult to beat, but not unbeatable.
 
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ChikoLad

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Rosalina was better than Diddy to begin with, she just wasn't getting enough usage/mastery to show it off.

People didn't like Diddy because he was too good for a character with such a low skill floor, not because he was the best in the game regardless. He was broken because you can do well with him without putting much work in. You could always do better with Rosalina, but nobody put the work in.
 

mario123007

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Rosalina was better than Diddy to begin with, she just wasn't getting enough usage/mastery to show it off.

People didn't like Diddy because he was too good for a character with such a low skill floor, not because he was the best in the game regardless. He was broken because you can do well with him without putting much work in. You could always do better with Rosalina, but nobody put the work in.
I do say Rosalina has a lot more strategy potential than Diddy, she isn't a character for starters, but if you take time mastering her, she can be tough.
 

Iron Kraken

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Aside from the throw nerf (the only one that mattered was the back throw), nothing about her nerfs was significant. They were miniscule tweaks that increased her skill floor a bit, nothing more. The Luma coming back faster and the shorter uncharged Luma Shot were big buffs, as was decreasing the knockback on N-air (giving her an aerial combo linker).

If you thought that nerf was a heavy one, you probably need to do some real work on certain aspects of Rosalina.
lol @ the random shot of me needing to work on certain aspects of Rosa if I disagree with you..... okay.

As I said, the nerfs Rosa received in 1.0.4 weren't nearly as significant as what Diddy got this patch, but I also completely and utterly disagree with the fact that Rosa's buffs outweighed her nerfs in 1.0.4.
 
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Nadeko Sengoku

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lol @ the random shot of me needing to work on certain aspects of Rosa if I disagree with you..... okay.

As I said, the nerfs Rosa received in 1.0.4 weren't nearly as significant as what Diddy got this patch, but I also completely and utterly disagree with the fact that Rosa's buffs outweighed her nerfs in 1.0.4.
There have been many shots fired not only by him but but others as well.

I also agree that her buffs do not outweigh her nerfs for the 1.0.4 patch
 

ChikoLad

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lol @ the random shot of me needing to work on certain aspects of Rosa if I disagree with you..... okay.

As I said, the nerfs Rosa received in 1.0.4 weren't nearly as significant as what Diddy got this patch, but I also completely and utterly disagree with the fact that Rosa's buffs outweighed her nerfs in 1.0.4.
I didn't say they outweighed them, I said that it was even. The character wasn't nerfed or buffed overall, merely tweaked and re-balanced to encourage a more interesting use of the character.

Also, why does everyone take "well maybe you need a little work" as "shots fired", here in the Rosalina boards? It's like, every time I tell a Rosalina player that "if you are feeling X is bad/having trouble with X, then it's probably because you need to work on Y", it's like the equivalent of saying "I hope your first born child dies". There is no need to take offense to a simple suggestion that you may need to work on some things. I swear the regulars around here are way too over sensitive sometimes.

If Rosalina feels "worse" to you after the 1.0.4 patch compared to after, it's because you're playing her too similarly to how her fundamentals were before that patch. When that patch dropped, some of her fundamentals changed. As such, you couldn't just play her the same way as before the patch, or else you'd do worse. The increased range variance, decreased cooldown, and ability to have Luma attack earlier on Luma Shot after the patch, combined with the decreased cooldown, added windbox, and faster travelling speed on calling back Luma, encouraged people to send Luma out more and use him as a literal second player, rather than just using him as a disjoint. A lot of people still haven't understood this, and are still playing the "camp at the side and use Luma as my disjoint" game that Rosalina is becoming infamous for, even though that playstyle is far from optimal now. That's why many people viewed that patch as an overall "nerf". However, it's completely untrue - using Luma as a second player wasn't nearly as effective before that patch as it is now, and it's such an amazing way of playing, that it actually wouldn't be too far fetched to say Rosalina received a huge buff - however, she had enough little nerfs to balance it out, mainly the slightly increased respawn timer (though this is inconsequential if you're good enough - Luma really shouldn't ever be KO'd too much, unless you're against Pac-Man, who is the only other character who can really compare to us in stage control ability), and the overall mild nerf to Solo Rosalina.

The best way to describe the effects of that patch on Rosalina is that both her skill floor and skill ceiling got significantly higher. She got worse as an entry level/flowchart character. But she got quite a bit better in terms of her overall creative potential and her combo game improved greatly thanks to N-air now working as a combo linker (before the patch, Rosalina didn't have any good aerials for linking combos without Luma's assistance. However, now her N-air is an amazing combo linker regardless of Luma's presence or absence). The decreased knockback on some throws also helped there (though I do wish Back Throw was still the great KO move it was before the patch, because now it doesn't have much use).
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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You can still use the f-throw and b-throw to make KOs, though you'd have to be near the edge of the battlefield to ensure that your opponent is going to get KO'd.
 

ChikoLad

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You can still use the f-throw and b-throw to make KOs, though you'd have to be near the edge of the battlefield to ensure that your opponent is going to get KO'd.
You can, but it generally requires you to get them to really high percents, and Rosalina has much earlier KO options anyway.

The problem with her Back Throw now is not the launch power. It actually has plenty, and it should be enough for decently early KOs. The problem is the angle. It sends people more vertically than horizontally, making it really awkward. it has no real defined use anymore.
 

Nadeko Sengoku

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The best way to describe the effects of that patch on Rosalina is that both her skill floor and skill ceiling got significantly higher. She got worse as an entry level/flowchart character. But she got quite a bit better in terms of her overall creative potential and her combo game improved greatly thanks to N-air now working as a combo linker (before the patch, Rosalina didn't have any good aerials for linking combos without Luma's assistance. However, now her N-air is an amazing combo linker regardless of Luma's presence or absence).
That patch definitely changed the way you played Rosalina and Luma not just in what you described, which is true. You could safely approach with nair before that patch but now, like you said, you have to get creative with her

Also, why does everyone take "well maybe you need a little work" as "shots fired", here in the Rosalina boards? It's like, every time I tell a Rosalina player that "if you are feeling X is bad/having trouble with X, then it's probably because you need to work on Y", it's like the equivalent of saying "I hope your first born child dies". There is no need to take offense to a simple suggestion that you may need to work on some things. I swear the regulars around here are way too over sensitive sometimes.
It's not about being sensitive, many of the things you post come off as condescending.
 

ChikoLad

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It's not about being sensitive, many of the things you post come off as condescending.
If giving advice is condescending, then I shall continue to be the most condescending person on these boards! :V

Also I'd still say N-air is incredibly safe, as it still goes through a lot of attacks despite the slight range reduction.

I honestly don't see Rosalina getting any changes again, unless it's just more irrelevant stuff like Luma getting a 4 HP reduction, or fixing an exploit (they did this with the "High Jump" exploit Guardian Luma used to have).
 

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@ ChikoLad ChikoLad it's not that I was offended by your "I should work more on Rosa" comment, I'm simply amused that you would say that on account of my opinion that patch 1.0.4 was a nerf to Rosa.

I do agree that the shorter distance of neutral B made de-syncing Luma a more viable option. I would love to play you sometime and see for myself how effective of an option this can be, so I can incorporate those tactics into my own game.

For now I am steadfast in my opinion that patch 1.0.4 was a nerf for Rosa, until I see another Rosa player convince me otherwise.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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@ ChikoLad ChikoLad it's not that I was offended by your "I should work more on Rosa" comment, I'm simply amused that you would say that on account of my opinion that patch 1.0.4 was a nerf to Rosa.

I do agree that the shorter distance of neutral B made de-syncing Luma a more viable option. I would love to play you sometime and see for myself how effective of an option this can be, so I can incorporate those tactics into my own game.

For now I am steadfast in my opinion that patch 1.0.4 was a nerf for Rosa, until I see another Rosa player convince me otherwise.
1.04 patch was a nerf so was 1.06. I'm not sure how anyone can suggest anything else.
 

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I'm shocked this thread wasn't locked two pages ago. There's not much constructive discussion left to be had on the topic.

I'm doubtful that this character is going to be touched much when the Lucas patch comes out. If they had any thoughts that she was overtuned, they would have done it with the Mewtwo patch and not waiting to observe the effects of her recent...nerf? She was incredibly overpowered back in the 3DS era, but now she's perfectly fine.
 

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Seeing as a couple days have passed since the 1.0.6 update was released, it's probably time for this thread to close up shop.
 
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