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The Shame Sakurai Video thread

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DungeonMaster

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Enough is enough.
We've seen a bunch of patches, and nothing but crap thrown our way. The Japanese do feel shame, culturally, that much I know very well and now it's time to actually try and hit that nerve in whatever minor way we can.

I want to expose the intentional design flaws in Samus and the bias in the current batch of patches.
Making these videos for anyone who has tried is actually a lot of effort but I'm willing to do it now.

Let's expose the flaws one by one for this we need the most obvious, ridiculous stuff.
I need high quality video examples, I have a good capture card, I want it to look good. You can upload your snippets to you-tube (which I can video capture) or send them directly to me (PM me). I need ~3 examples for each move/category and we are likely going to need slow-motion 5-10 second clips is from my experience the best way to grab and keep attention.

The OP will be updated here with the list and current best example of every category:

Extended hurtbox stupidity (sub category for each move)
Insane slow startup on grab
Insane endlag on grab - hardest punish possible
Pointless missiles
Insane end lag on missiles - hardest punish possible
Pointless bombs
Moves which whiff that shouldn't
Falling out of multi-hits
Moves that clank for no good reason - failed priority
Samus getting hit by massively disjointed invisible hitboxes

Let's assemble the list, the above is not exhaustive.
The goal is to have the most absurd, funny, ridiculous examples possible.
 
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Varia31

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Hmm, I'll see if I can record some of these. Perhaps the "grab" ones at least, if nothing else.
 

JAZZ_

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It should start out with the line from the new batman v suoer mn trailer that Alfred says. And I quote
"This is how it starts...... The fever .. The rage... That turns good men... Cruel" totally fits how we feel. Bring the shame bomb
 

Xygonn

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Extended hurtbox stupidity (sub category for each move)

Insane slow startup on grab -> I suggest releasing shield to usmash for a variety of characters, maybe mario/luigi, roslina, diddy, fox, charizard.

Insane endlag on grab - hardest punish possible -> If someone wants to set this up: a short hop warlock punch, I think spot dodge falcon punch might also get us, also demo that they don't work on link.

Pointless missiles -> point blank flying over the rat devil, olimar, and a few others

Insane end lag on missiles - hardest punish possible -> Hard to say, but maybe a punish on hit from homing missiles at point blank?

Pointless bombs -> Compare with mii gunner

Moves which whiff that shouldn't -> fsmash whiff city, it should only be a short time before we have enough captures of this

Falling out of multi-hits -> See above, just wait, especially with share replay, this should be no problem

Moves that clank for no good reason - failed priority-> grounded screw attack is a regular grounded attack that does 2% damage, sorry that it clanks, I know this makes you mad. All the priority on her moves is totally normal. It's just the way the game works. Could you give me an example of where you think you get robbed?

Samus getting hit by massively disjointed invisible hitboxes -> This isn't a problem with samus is it?
 

Hark17ball

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When trying to catch a roll with Down Smash, most characters get through the Smash then punish me with their own Smash.

Could be that my timing is garbage.....
 

SpottedCerberus

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Compare fully charged d-smash to d-tilt. (Does only 2% more damage, has bad range, and I'm almost certain that it KOs later from center stage.)

Show that charge shot is the only chargable move that doesn't charge in mid-air.

Mention the false tip that charge shot is faster in mid-air.

Compare her roll to other characters.

Maybe highlight how ridiculous it is that ZSS is so much better than her? I mean, she can even KO sooner with those crazy up-b off the top set-ups. And her down-b is absolutely insane.
 
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Xygonn

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When trying to catch a roll with Down Smash, most characters get through the Smash then punish me with their own Smash.

Could be that my timing is garbage.....
Our coverage is typical (but late) for a front-back down smash. Obviously we don't get peach or pikachu like coverage of a roll.
 

SpottedCerberus

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I sort of wish that Fox still had his broken jab combo, just because it would be a perfect contrast to Samus's differently broken jab combo.

But anyway, I'm fairly certain that Captain Falcon can punish our whiffed grab endlag with an unavoidable Falcon Punch.

And, speaking of Captain Falcon, his dash grab gives him the distance of a tether grab without the end-lag. And his up-tilt spikes in the air, whereas ours only spikes on the ground. Highlighting weird design choices like that might be good. I'd suggest using him as the opponent character for a lot of the video, because he's also one of the character who can really just ignore bombs and missiles are especially useless against him.

Pointless bombs -> Compare with mii gunner
This is a good idea. Mii Gunner also has a superior d-tilt, even though it is clearly based on Samus's. (My rudimentary test says that it KO's 30-40% sooner and does 2% more damage. If someone could check the frame data, that would be good.

Also, and I'm not sure about this, I think the up-smash, which is also based on Samus, has better hitboxes. (Edit: Yeah. It doesn't connect when the opponent's on a platform, but that's just character height. (My miis are all short. Idk if a tall mii would do better.) More importantly, it doesn't whiff at all when it does connect. And it scoops up characters in front of him.)

Their missiles do the same damage, but I don't know if everything else about them is the same. (Speed, lag, etc.) Worth checking out.

Make sure to either have the mii wearing the Samus costume, or just include screenshots of it and say "Why even use Samus?" or something. (I say you might want to just get screenshots because I assume you don't want to waste money on that bull****. I know I wouldn't.)
 
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Hark17ball

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Our coverage is typical (but late) for a front-back down smash. Obviously we don't get peach or pikachu like coverage of a roll.
To be fair its Fox Mario and Sonic I have this problem with more than others. Should I turn to face where they'll be behind me? Time it earlier? Or just not use it?.
 

zeldasmash

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I think the best way to prove how bad Samus is, just compare the moves the Mii Gunner has to Samus and show off Samus flaws in comparison to the Mii Gunner.
 

Xygonn

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To be fair its Fox Mario and Sonic I have this problem with more than others. Should I turn to face where they'll be behind me? Time it earlier? Or just not use it?.

I recommend avoiding dsmash most of the time.

I keep using dsmash even though I shouldn't because I play other characters and it is a natural reaction. The hitboxes on dsmash are at least reliable which is nice. If you had perfect reaction time, you could turn around and dtilt to catch a roll. You can realistically catch a roll->smash attack this way before the smash comes out. If they are rolling and you aren't catching them with the back hit, it's because you are doing it too soon (or maybe they predicted your down smash and rolled through it).
 

Boney

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If you guys are gonna compare her to ZSS, you need to include the but from the direct where Sakurai said she have her rocket boots so that she wouldn't be so weak and then cut to her koing at like 50%, and then show Samus slowly running around whiffing dash attacks and people falling off up air

Moves that clank for no good reason - failed priority-> grounded screw attack is a regular grounded attack that does 2% damage, sorry that it clanks, I know this makes you mad. All the priority on her moves is totally normal. It's just the way the game works. Could you give me an example of where you think you get robbed?
Tell that to luigi's down b
 
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Hark17ball

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I recommend avoiding dsmash most of the time.

I keep using dsmash even though I shouldn't because I play other characters and it is a natural reaction. The hitboxes on dsmash are at least reliable which is nice. If you had perfect reaction time, you could turn around and dtilt to catch a roll. You can realistically catch a roll->smash attack this way before the smash comes out. If they are rolling and you aren't catching them with the back hit, it's because you are doing it too soon (or maybe they predicted your down smash and rolled through it).
Thanks man, Peach is my Second so its instinct to DSmash with Roll. I'll probably use it less then. Just gotta burn it into my brain Yay for Peach Nay for Samus
 

zblaqk

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Show that Samus can't crawl with her morph ball while ZSS can crouch lower without the morphball?
 

LIQUID12A

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Show that Samus can't crawl with her morph ball while ZSS can crouch lower without the morphball?
Y CAN'T METROID CRAWL....

...lower than Metroid without armor?

Come on, that joke is begging to be made.
 

Ffamran

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A little bird tipped me off to this thread...

I am okay with pointing out flaws and criticizing people, but remember this, Masahiro Sakurai did not make this game alone. Sora Ltd., Bandai Namco, and Nintendo were all involved. When people blame Sakurai, Hideaki Itsuno, Hideo Kojima, Shigeru Miyamoto, Peter Molyneux, or people like Barrack Obama, François Holland, or Shinzo Abe, they're blaming the wrong person; they are not blaming the people around them, the groups supporting them. The people who did not do a thing are to blame as well because they did not protest. You should not blame the failure of the United States, France, and Japan on Obama, Holland, or Abe. No, it is the fault of the United States, France, and Japan themselves. Likewise, it is not the fault of just Sakurai; it is the fault of Sora Ltd., Bandai Namco, and Nintendo. The people who are blaming Konami for soured relationships with Kojima? That's a correct blame and one that has proof through immature removal of Kojima and Kojima Productions's name on Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. He is an eccentric man who was influenced by and loved films, so what's so big of a deal with him having "A Hideo Kojima game"? It's the same if Christopher Nolan puts "A Christopher Nolan film". It's just the director or creator adding his name to it alongside his team in the credits, both opening and closing.

The title is immature and ill-directed. Something like "Flaws of Samus That Need to be Addressed" would have been appropriate. Flaws that everyone knows and I'm damn sure Sora, Namco, and Nintendo know with repeated outcries from Samus players. Maybe they're flaws they do not know how to fix. Or perhaps they choose not to fix them. Why? Because Smash Bros. is a party fighting game, a genre that is both unique and killing it. Games inherently are supposed to be fun, they're supposed to be entertainment, and games with multiplayer will end up competitive even if luck is involved. People get mad over Mario Party and Dokapon Kingdom where RNG reigns over you and they still compete in those games even against CPUs who read your every move. So what?

So what is that choosing to only focus on party killed Brawl as the fighting part was not addressed enough when stupid RNG tripping existed, oversights like Wolf's 60 frame meteor cancel window, and Sakurai-only balancing lead to characters like Meta Knight, Ganondorf, Ice Climbers, Falco, and Triple D to exist. Melee? Killed by poor game design that left about 5 characters are strictly better than the rest where characters like Dr. Mario who was supposed to be a stronger, slower Mario end up with faster air speed and whose physics allowed him to compete with the Star Fox duo better than Mario or a character like Zelda who was dependent on 3 moves: Down Smash, Fair, and Bair along with air dodge which she still does today except recent patches have made her "function" better. Oh, and Peach's Down Smash was allowed to exist. 64 was probably the best of both worlds, but then again, you only had to deal with 12 characters, so not a lot of balancing needed to be done. Smash 4 while balanced pretty well has many under-performing characters not to mention that the 3 studios don't really know where to go between party or fighting.

Here's the thing, fighting games are difficult. Games are difficult, but they don't have to be for a regular playthrough. Demon's Souls is not difficult and neither is Castlevania. What's difficult is that for higher levels of play like speedrunning or challenge runs e.g. no death runs. Being patient and trying over and over again during a regular playthrough will get you through those games and whether or not you enjoy it is up to you. Fighting games don't have that. Even at a basic level, you have to know how the game works to play decently without button-mashing. Smash Bros. and the upcoming Rising Thunder averts this where there aren't a lot of complex inputs. It's just attacks, tilts, crouch and standing hits, aerials, and specials. None of the quarter-circle inputs which arguably isn't difficult, but in the heat of battle and for newcomers, it's difficult for them. The main difference is that Rising Thunder is designed to be competitive and at the same time, friendly to newbies who can just play and have fun. Games like Mario, Sly Cooper, Halo, Fable, Mass Effect, and even Devil May Cry, Bayonetta, and Diablo aren't difficult. It's when you get deeper, especially with those last three, is when they are difficult and that's the beauty of it. A game so simple, but deep down, is very complex. Is Smash that? Arguably, all of them are, but to different degrees.

Let's imagine that Smash 4 was developed with competitive players in mind, but still played like it is today. Does that change anything for regular players? No, absolutely not. They don't care who is the best character in that game; all they care about is playing their favorite character, playing with friends and family, and having a good time. It's for the competitive players where deep combat exists and where all characters are viable so you can be the best Mewtwo or Lucina player without having to worry about things like Melee Fox or Brawl Zelda existing. UMvC3 allows you to play however you want, but you do need to learn some of it to be able to do something other than set combos. Can you play as Dante, Deadpool, and Nova? Sure, but at higher levels, there's this major gap where Vergil, Doctor Doom, and Morrigan are just that better like in Melee where Fox, Falco, and Marth were that just that better than the rest of the cast. In KoF XIII, all characters are viable and you do need to learn about the basics to play the game. Each character can be used, but yes, some characters excel at different positions since you play with a team of 3 characters. If I wanted, I could play a team of King, NESTS Kyo, and Claw Iori. Is that a good team? Hell if I know, but I can play any of the characters. I could play as Shen Woo, Elisabeth, K', or Mai Shiranui. Problem? I only have a Dualshock for the PS3, so "basic" inputs like quarter-circle is going to be annoying. On the PC, KoF might be easier to play, but there's that high execution floor. Now imagine Smash 4 like KoF XIII, but with a relatively low execution floor. All players can play, all players can choose to enter competitively, and all characters are viable. That's a game I wish Smash 4 to be.

Right now, the tone is angry, frustrated, and disappointed. I can understand that, but at the same time, I can't. I was never and still am not fully part of the competitive Smash scene and I played Smash purely for the fun of being able to play as characters like Luigi, Link, Snake, and Wolf. Still, can you feel the pain of having a character whose 1 notable flaw, his extreme amount of end lag for a projectile with set knockback, a thin hitbox, and does 3% that gets left alone, but characters like Fox, Greninja, and the Pits get their end lag (and startup for Greninja) reduced? Characters who already have good projectiles getting theirs buffed, while a major issue is left alone? That's 1 problem that could have been fixed and it's a kick in the face when more superficial - Fox and the Pits' - or minor issues are addressed - Greninja even with his old projectile found it to be very rewarding and useful to his game plan. There are other character with major problems slowly having theirs fixed, but when there's just 1 problem and it's not done since several patches, it's like how long do we have to wait? Or what if they don't even do anything about it? Falco can be as strong as he wants, but when you are forced to approach almost every character in the game because your projectile is that bad, he's still going to be one of the worst characters. It's a shame when structurally, Falco's probably one of the best-worst characters alongside Kirby and Dr. Mario.

What do we do to Samus? I don't know since I don't play her. The ability to "crawl" would be fantastic and her rolls for me should have been based on Prime's dashes which would essentially be like Little Mac's "rolls". Her Up Smash is not working when she's one of the tallest characters. As an anti-air? I could see great use out of it, but the question is how does she get in that position to use it when Utilt's safer since it hits above and in front of her. On Toon Link or Fox? Sure, why not, but Samus? Jab 1 worked in Melee, so why is it not working in Smash 4? It's practically the same except for being in a different game with a different engine. Sometimes that works, but other times, it won't.

You could give Samus Kyo's 75-Shiki Kai and it might work better for an Up Smash. At least it would cover below her. I'm surprised that no character has flying front kicks for a move... Front kicks themselves are rare in this game compared to roundhouses, side kicks, and even stuff like whip kicks and back kicks.
 
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