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The Proper Time and Place for Rolls?

HenryXLII

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HenryXLII
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So during my training I have been told by multiple people that my greatest weakness is I roll under pressure. I have been trying to fix this and do think I have gotten better at it, but sometimes I still roll like a madman. It tends to happen whenever I miss an attack and I say to my self "Oh crap I am vulnerable! TIME TO ROLL!" So I am curios, when is the best possible time to roll and actually capitalize off of it? If I knew the proper time to do it, I feel I would not do it as much at improper moments.
 

Raijinken

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Rolling is heavily punishable against an opponent who knows how to do so, and anything particularly predictable that locks you into a set path is similarly punishable. It can be hard to precisely know the best time to roll, but generally, it's used when the enemy will be too tied up in endlag to punish you, but you're not confident enough or in a good enough spot to punish them. It's also useful for avoiding shield-breaking moves like Bowser Bomb, Warlock Blade, and so on.
 

JmacAttack

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So during my training I have been told by multiple people that my greatest weakness is I roll under pressure. I have been trying to fix this and do think I have gotten better at it, but sometimes I still roll like a madman. It tends to happen whenever I miss an attack and I say to my self "Oh crap I am vulnerable! TIME TO ROLL!" So I am curios, when is the best possible time to roll and actually capitalize off of it? If I knew the proper time to do it, I feel I would not do it as much at improper moments.
Rolling is generally a sub-optimal option no matter what. It means you have been placed into a disadvantageous position, and you need a quick getaway to get to "higher ground". Rolling is slower than simply running, and leaves you in a poor position to counterattack 90% of the time. It might give you some space, but your opponent will catch up and be able to punish with a dash attack or ranged attack if you abuse it too much.

So, the right question isn't "when is a good time to roll?" It's "when is rolling going to hurt me more than it helps?"

1) Never roll into an enemy as an offensive option. You might as well jump off the edge, because even Ganondorf can punish that with his Fsmash.

2) Don't roll away if you're too close to the edge. The primary advantage of a roll, spacing, is wasted here, and you end up in more vulnerable lag frames than if you had just spot dodged.

3) Try not to roll behind an enemy if you can help it. It can save you if your enemy is using a dangerous, laggy move, but it can be punished with most characters' down-smash, and if you get too predictable about this, you might even eat an Fsmash.

4) Don't roll when running, walking, or jumping would suffice. Rolling across the stage is nothing but annoying, and isn't safe either. Running away can have exactly the same effects as rolling away, except you are in a much better position to attack if your opponent chases you.
 
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FalKoopa

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I'll add that breaking the rolling habit is hard if you don't get punished for it. Doubly so if you are playing online - the lag actually makes it a safer option compared to offline play.
 

HenryXLII

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Thanks for all the feedback guys, this should help me out.

breaking the rolling habit is hard if you don't get punished for it
I think this is my main problem, it has saved my life far too many times.

Rolling is slower than simply running
This is something I never thought of. But is it true with all character? I main Robin who is pretty sluggish on his own, I also here its a decent tool for Link. Regardless, thank you for that info!
 

Raijinken

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Thanks for all the feedback guys, this should help me out.



I think this is my main problem, it has saved my life far too many times.



This is something I never thought of. But is it true with all character? I main Robin who is pretty sluggish on his own, I also here its a decent tool for Link. Regardless, thank you for that info!
Robin's slow as dirt, but still, if you run, at least you aren't locked into the action (not positive if it's any faster or slower, but it's safer). Also, on top of running, remember that some characters (i.e. Jigglypuff) move a lot faster in midair than on the ground.

Of course, if it's simply a matter of avoiding a move, spot-dodge. Unless it's a multi-hit move or you're playing in a laggy environment, spot-dodging or perfect-shielding will give you the best opportunity to punish moves with any significant endlag.
 

visvim

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I find that the occasional roll (almost always backwards) as a means to create distance between you and your opponent is fine, but like others said, simply running, shielding and spot dodging are usually optimal choices.

Likewise, repeated short hop/fast falling can be a game changer in terms of movement across the stage and getting out of tricky situations, esp. for characters with sluggish ground speed, and can allow you to cover your escape with an aerial.
 
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