The Pikmin Chain Grab

[IllidR]

I'm suprised I haven't seen any discussion of this yet, but if there was some ignore this thread.

Well, my idea is that using the Pikmin as a chair for recovery will not only serve as an Up-B attack but will also be Olimar's grab. What gives me this idea? Because of good ol' Sakurai.

In order to perform a Smash Attack, certain midair attacks, and even throws, you’re going to need Pikmin!

Now in this quote Sakurai does not say that Olimar will need Pikmin for certain throws, he says even throws, meaning Pikmin will most likely be used for all throws. Some people from this might thing they'd be used AFTER the person if grabbed, doing damage or flinging the opponent in every which-way, but why not have a Pikmin grapple similar to Link's or Samus's? It'd seem very appropriate, giving Olimar more need for his Pikmin with the length of the grab depending on how many Pikmin are in his possession.

Also, this may be a stretch, but why not present it as a possibility. In melee one of the easter eggs was elongating Samus's grapple and even giving it the ability to track the enemies, going directly for them when L is held. So maybe, without activation needed of a special grab, the Pikmin would do something similar and go directly for the enemy, even if he is in the air. Again, I said this was a stretch but possible.

I'm not saying Olimar shouldn't be able to grab if he does not have any Pikmin but it does seem like a definite possibility.

 

[Smash Ninja]

Personally, I thought his grab would be the Pikmin holding up a character and walking around with them and then being able to suicide and stuff, like I said in the Olimar Support thread.

But, when I think about it, maybe both can be mixed together...
Chain -> Hold up high as a group -> Run around -> Throw/suicide.

Olimar's God-Grab FTW?

 

[IllidR]

Personally, I thought his grab would be the Pikmin holding up a character and walking around with them and then being able to suicide and stuff, like I said in the Olimar Support thread.

But, when I think about it, maybe both can be mixed together...
Chain -> Hold up high as a group -> Run around -> Throw/suicide.

Olimar's God-Grab FTW?

Yeah, the Pikmin would pull the person in AND THEN you could choose which throw you could do, one of which could be similar to the DK Carry.

God-Grab yes.

 

[Smash Ninja]

Down throw should be Pikmin pinning someone to the floor and pummeling them with their leaf/bu/flower! XD

I also think that the up throw could (after throwing the opponent up) have Olimar throwing ALL the Pikmin vertically at a VERY rapid succession, which then latch on to the enemy, making them fastfall straight back down!

The God-Grab just got Godlier...

 

[IllidR]

Down throw should be Pikmin pinning someone to the floor and pummeling them with their leaf/bu/flower! XD

I also think that the up throw could (after throwing the opponent up) have Olimar throwing ALL the Pikmin vertically at a VERY rapid succession, which then latch on to the enemy, making them fastfall straight back down!

The God-Grab just got Godlier...

Very nice ideas for the directional throws! I especially like the up-throw.

 

[Smash Ninja]

Very nice ideas for the directional throws! I especially like the up-throw.

Thanks! ^_^

I cant think of anything particuarly interest for the side throw though... have you got any ideas?

I got so stuck with the suicide idea, that I forgot to ponder the >throw, as it didnt seem neccessary... hmmm...

Also, any ideas for the neutral grab attack? Again, I lack interesting thoughts on this one...

 

[MirageofMadness]

My guess is for P&O's grab and throws would have the pikmin collectively gather around the opponent and pick them up, as they do with the ship parts in the actual Pikmin games. I don't know about the actual throwing part, but I would guess they would follow Olimar around until the opponent gets free or until Olimar issues a throw command, which has the pikmin toss the enemy somewhere.

I also like the idea of throwing the pikmin after throwing the enemy so that they latch on. The downfall is, though, that it would almost keep enemies from flying away, and knocking them off is ultimately the goal, so then I would fear that P&O may not have many moves to get the good knockback.

 

[Smash Ninja]

My guess is for P&O's grab and throws would have the pikmin collectively gather around the opponent and pick them up, as they do with the ship parts in the actual Pikmin games. I don't know about the actual throwing part, but I would guess they would follow Olimar around until the opponent gets free or until Olimar issues a throw command, which has the pikmin toss the enemy somewhere.

I also like the idea of throwing the pikmin after throwing the enemy so that they latch on. The downfall is, though, that it would almost keep enemies from flying away, and knocking them off is ultimately the goal, so then I would fear that P&O may not have many moves to get the good knockback.

Nice post, you pretty much summed up the entire thread so far and gave us some things to ponder...

I think (with Pikmin) smashes and arials will provide good KO moves... grabbing is more for racking up damage for P&O (or suicidal Pikmin KO's, with none of Oli's stock lost).

I never actually KO'd using throws in Melee, so im not that worried about his throwing KO potential. But if you did need it, we still havent thought of a >throw yet...

Maybe that could just simply be, the uber-knockback-pwnage-lob! Or something along those lines...

W.. wait a minute... did the God-Grab just get... GODLIERER?!?!?!O_O?!?!

 

[froggster93]

I guess that his throw will just be the chain of Pikmin and then he could use them like samus's whip or something, because that would just be awesome.

 

[Davy Jones]

Maybe the pikmin chain will be hard to use. Imagine if you have only one Pikmin.
Maybe he will have more angles: NE, N, NS, S, SW,W, WE, E.

 

[IllidR]

Maybe the pikmin chain will be hard to use. Imagine if you have only one Pikmin.
Maybe he will have more angles: NE, N, NS, S, SW,W, WE, E.

Angles are a possbility. They'd give you a little more room to maneuver with in his grabs.

 

[Layupfreak]

lol, i would like to see a pikmin chain

 

[IllidR]

lol, i would like to see a pikmin chain

I think most people would. Whipping your Pikmin like a chain at an opponent always seems appealing.

 

[Professor X]

I definitely think this will probably happen. The problem is, grapple grabs ala Samus and Link were generally laggy and unfavorable. At least in my opinion.

Howerver, variable pikmin number could change all of that. What could possibly be a cool improvement would be the shorter the chain, the less lag involved in the attempted grab.

 

[IllidR]

I definitely think this will probably happen. The problem is, grapple grabs ala Samus and Link were generally laggy and unfavorable. At least in my opinion.

Howerver, variable pikmin number could change all of that. What could possibly be a cool improvement would be the shorter the chain, the less lag involved in the attempted grab.

Well if this is implimented it could be a part of Olimar strategy. Need a faster grab to deal with an opponent? Throw away a Pikmin and have a shorter faster chain. Need more range for a character trying to keep his distance? Have all of your Pikmin out at all times for maximum reach.

Glad you agree with me though.=D

 

[Florida]

Actually, we have already seen his grab in action. 00:17 - 00:19: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ia20nvQJszg If you watch closely, you'll notice that Olimar uses his blue Pikmin to grab Mario, and to throw him behind. After the throw, the blue Pikmin is also behind Olimar. Though, notice that he has other Pikmin with him as well, why weren't they apart of the grab? It is most likely that the minimum and maximum amount of Pikmin needed to grab an opponent is 1.

Though, while we're on the discussion of chain-grabbing, I'll bring up a new theory. Zero Suit Samus's up special is the "plasma wire". The DOJO mentions that you can use the plasma wire to pull enemies toward you (if they're above). We all know that Olimar's up-b is almost the same as Zero Suit Samus's. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could up-throw with Olimar, use your up-b to pull them back down, and repeat the process? Of course, this also might be possible with Zero Suit Samus. What do you guys think?

 

[IllidR]

Actually, we have already seen his grab in action. 00:17 - 00:19: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ia20nvQJszg If you watch closely, you'll notice that Olimar uses his blue Pikmin to grab Mario, and to throw him behind. After the throw, the blue Pikmin is also behind Olimar. Though, notice that he has other Pikmin with him as well, why weren't they apart of the grab? It is most likely that the minimum and maximum amount of Pikmin needed to grab an opponent is 1.

Though, while we're on the discussion of chain-grabbing, I'll bring up a new theory. Zero Suit Samus's up special is the "plasma wire". The DOJO mentions that you can use the plasma wire to pull enemies toward you (if they're above). We all know that Olimar's up-b is almost the same as Zero Suit Samus's. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could up-throw with Olimar, use your up-b to pull them back down, and repeat the process? Of course, this also might be possible with Zero Suit Samus. What do you guys think?

I knew that in that video there was some sort of grab going on, and I even repeated it over and over to try and catch what was going on; however, it was simply to quick moving for me to judge what exactly happened, if Olimar used a Pikmin, and how far away from Mario he was. If you're sure than that was a nice catch and I guess a chain grab wouldn't be in which kind of disappoints me. I'll present a possibilty though that with Olimar being a character with a lot of depth and being geared towards advanced players, he would be able to vary his throws depending on the number of Pikmin he had, maybe if he had six instead of three he would use two Pikmin for his throw. Just a possibility.

You also bring up a very good point of speculation that I too was concerned about, with Zamus's Up-B being very similar to Olimar's there is a very good possibility that they may work the same way in which you are saying. If Olimar does in fact have the ability to grab enemies from the air that would be beyong great. Imagine the chaining possibilities of grabbing an opponent trying to jump over your head, pulling them down and throwing them up. Rather, rinse, repeat. Of course, this idea of chaining would be very, very cheap. So a decent knockback would have to be in order to prevent this infinite chaining, it may be possible at lower percentages though.

 

[Seiya]

Actually, we have already seen his grab in action. 00:17 - 00:19: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ia20nvQJszg If you watch closely, you'll notice that Olimar uses his blue Pikmin to grab Mario, and to throw him behind. After the throw, the blue Pikmin is also behind Olimar. Though, notice that he has other Pikmin with him as well, why weren't they apart of the grab? It is most likely that the minimum and maximum amount of Pikmin needed to grab an opponent is 1.

Though, while we're on the discussion of chain-grabbing, I'll bring up a new theory. Zero Suit Samus's up special is the "plasma wire". The DOJO mentions that you can use the plasma wire to pull enemies toward you (if they're above). We all know that Olimar's up-b is almost the same as Zero Suit Samus's. Wouldn't it be interesting if you could up-throw with Olimar, use your up-b to pull them back down, and repeat the process? Of course, this also might be possible with Zero Suit Samus. What do you guys think?

I like your idea. It would be quite fun doing that combo constantly >:D but I can't picture Olimar doing it..sort of >.<

 

[ALB247]

Pft, Pikmin Chain Grab...this ain't no 5150.

 

[Quarter]

My god.
This man is a genius.

Someone get him a cookie!

 

[ZelgadisA027123]

We've got Olimar using a throw in this video at 0:56. The throw - which looks to be of the "up" variety - is carried out by a Yellow Pikmin. After the throw, Ike looks like he has taken electric damage, implying that the Pikmin doing the throw affects its properties in some way (of course). Here is the interesting part, though...

Before the throw, Olimar had the Yellow, Blue, and White Pikmin following him, in that order. After the throw with the Yellow Pikmin, they are rearranged in the order of White, Yellow, Blue. The White Pikmin, which was last, is now next in the queue. This seems like an interesting and counter-intuitive reordering (I would assume BWY afterwards). Perhaps each throw performs a different shuffling order (unless all of Olimar's attacks follow this pattern, in which case, ignore this)?

In any event, this shows that chaingrabbing with P&O might be more difficult than previously expected. If your Pikmin are reordered after a throw, and if Pikmin affect the properties of the throw, then it stands to reason that an advanced P&O player will have to heavily organize his Pikmin queue prior to any complicated throw maneuver. This would only serve to make tournament-level P&O players that much more badass, however. Besides, if the different throws DO perform different shuffling operations, then I can imagine cycling between two throws and reusing the same two Pikmin each time. Do an up-throw with a weak White to keep the opponent low to the ground, and follow up with a chaingrab and down-throw with your strong Purple, which has enough force to knock them high enough for another grab. Repeat this pattern as much as possible, and on the final hit, use your Purple for a powerful forward- or back-throw. That was just an example, of course, I haven't seen many vids of P&O using throws...

Let me know what you guys think, and lets hope we see more vids of P&O's throws now that the game is out in Japan!