The PERSONA Gimmick

[pupNapoleon]

Heya friends!

I'm excited to play as Joker- his gameplay looks ill, and seems to imply he, like many guest characters, feel plopped into Smash from their own universe.
I'm not familiar with persona as a series- at least not yet. However, watching the Joker gameplay video gave me a feeling, and not fully a good one.

Is the way that the Persona meter at all similar to how Persona's work in their game? Not necessarily the meter, but, in your opinion, does the way Persona's were incorporated feel anything like the Persona games? As an outside eye, it looks like a buffed up version of Limitbreak... I thought we might get multiple persona's, or something less than another meter that primarily just changes the special attacks.
I would not expect the feature of personas to mimic the games directly- but this feels pretty uninspired to me.

Aside from that- what else would you like to discuss regarding the Persona / rebellion mechanic as a whole?

 

[TehSilentOne]

It doesn't reflect P5 mechanics, but is a good representation of the character in major cutscenes imo.

 

[HaunterSpencer]

Here's my input:
I think the way Rebel gauge works kinda like Persona 4 Arena, there is a mechanic called "awakening" which activates when the character takes a set amount of damage. They gain a meter and new moves. Likewise, in Smash, Joker can call on Arsene to amplify his moves or change your moveset.

Honestly, I thought he can summon Arsene anytime like in Persona Arena and he will have a Persona Gauge so that when you punish Arsene, Joker gets a "Persona Break". But then again P5 has other mechanics like the Gun feature, locking Persona as a "revenge/awakening" mechanic opens a new room for persona's other mechanics.

Gameplay wise, I think it fits the mold of a Thief being too slippery to catch. He has tons of mobility and nickel and dime, hit and run tactics to support this. I think this design is what Sakurai was looking for: a Thief who is too slippery and when things get tough, PERSONA! Of course this means that Joker himself kinda plays like Sheik, he *might* have weak moves to compensate his win condition of "Summoning Arsene".

When he DOES get Arsene tho, I think he turns into this pressure based, pseudo puppet character that can overwhelm the opponent. I can compare him to Relius Clover from Blazblue, as Arsene attacks alongside with Joker and Relius' moveset changes when his puppet is present or not. You dont set up it like RosaLuma or even Ken and Kuromaru (RosaLuma's P4Arena counterpart). Instead, you use Arsene to attack with you and get kills, otherwise, you would be playing a hit and run game instead.

I like what I see in his moveset tho, but I feel like Im playing Blazblue smash edition with Joker. Also with the "multiple persona" thing: Smash doesn't have the sufficient button size to summon multiple persona's unlike Persona Arena (which was already done by Margaret)

My only qualms is, why is the Series symbol the mark of Phatom Thieves instead of the velvet room symbol? The Symbol should represent the whole series instead of one. Looks like we have another Fire Emblem/Xenoblade symbol syndrome here

 

[KatKit]

The rebellion gauge is like a reverse SP meter of sorts. Instead of starting off at full power and using his Persona until he runs out of magic, he gains meter until he can summon it. It makes sense from a fighting game perspective, and the 'awakening to unleash your true power' aspect is both hype and happens at the beginning of Persona games.

What we got in Smash isn't what I anticipated, but it works. The fact that Arsene is an unstoppable entity that powers you up that cannot be physically harmed is an interesting contrast to how Personas are portrayed in Persona Arena. In P4A, you attack the Persona to weaken the wielder; in Smash, you only attack Joker to prevent him from destroying you with his Persona. In that regard, it's a more accurate representation of the series, i.e. the summoner is the only one to go after.

Joker doesn't use a large variety of spells in Smash, so he doesn't represent the series as a whole, but what we ended up getting is still faithful to who Joker is and what he can do. For example, if we got Yu from P4 instead, he'd most likely have a lot of Zio (lightning) based attacks and sword slashes. He'd use his signature Persona, even though he's capable of summoning more.

Simply put, we ended up getting Joker with some of his signature moves/flair and a few solid spells thrown in. The Persona that he uses is portrayed as this entity that you summon after going through some kind of hardship (getting beat up/'rebelling'). The entity mimics your movements (you are one in the same) and powers you up. It's only as strong as you are; if you're injured, it vanishes. Kinda cool. Accurate enough, IMO.

 

[OldHickory]

If I had to compare it to something, I'd say Zappa from Guilty Gear.

Zappa has the central goal of summoning a powerful spirit and rocking house.

 

[HaunterSpencer]

If I had to compare it to something, I'd say Zappa from Guilty Gear.

Zappa has the central goal of summoning a powerful spirit and rocking house.

OOH I FORGOT ABOUT ZAPPA :O Joker def plays more like Zappa
I wish he was in Xrd tho :^(

 

[AGreatProcrastinator]

I'm curious as to whether Arsene is a separate character that attacks in tandem with Joker like Luma to Rosalina, or a purely cosmetic representation for his attack buffs. If it's the former there might be potential for desync set ups.

 

[Avokha]

I'm curious as to whether Arsene is a separate character that attacks in tandem with Joker like Luma to Rosalina, or a purely cosmetic representation for his attack buffs. If it's the former there might be potential for desync set ups.

Yes and no? Arsene does not seem to move away from his position behind joker, BUT he does perform attacks in tandem with joker, and is even observed to add additional hitboxes to certain moves, such as his neutral air, in which Arsene swipes his claw opposite of jokers knife, sort of like corrins dragon arm in her neutral air.

 

[roymustang1990-]

The persona gimmick is essentially a exclusive secondary revenge gauge in smash ultimate that is seen throughout many traditional fighting games created for comeback purposes.it was never originally a cloud or little Mac feature.Also could have honesty been one of ryus gimmick but they gave it to cloud instead

 

[jamesster445]

Is the way that the Persona meter at all similar to how Persona's work in their game? Not necessarily the meter, but, in your opinion, does the way Persona's were incorporated feel anything like the Persona games? As an outside eye, it looks like a buffed up version of Limitbreak... I thought we might get multiple persona's, or something less than another meter that primarily just changes the special attacks.
I would not expect the feature of personas to mimic the games directly- but this feels pretty uninspired to me.

To put it bluntly.

How to summon a Persona in Smash Ultimate: You must build a gauge by dealing and receiving damage or absorbing attacks through Rebels Guard. The Persona will then activate on its own and remain active until hits gauge is empty.

How to summon a Persona in Persona 5: You press a button.

My hot take is that I don't like how they turned Arsene into a "limit" form. If anything they should've followed a method seen in Persona 4 Arene which was based off the Capcom made JoJo fighting game on Dreamcast. Where it functions as a stance however getting struck with a Persona active can make you lose access to its abilities for a short time. You would also be able to greatly expand the abilities of the character by allowing him access to both special sets when needed. I E using his Persona's Eigoan to launch an enemy up but then switching to his normal forms grappling hook to bring them back down.

 

[pupNapoleon]

To put it bluntly.

How to summon a Persona in Smash Ultimate: You must build a gauge by dealing and receiving damage or absorbing attacks through Rebels Guard. The Persona will then activate on its own and remain active until hits gauge is empty.

How to summon a Persona in Persona 5: You press a button.

My hot take is that I don't like how they turned Arsene into a "limit" form. If anything they should've followed a method seen in Persona 4 Arene which was based off the Capcom made JoJo fighting game on Dreamcast. Where it functions as a stance however getting struck with a Persona active can make you lose access to its abilities for a short time. You would also be able to greatly expand the abilities of the character by allowing him access to both special sets when needed. I E using his Persona's Eigoan to launch an enemy up but then switching to his normal forms grappling hook to bring them back down.

If that is the case, completely mimicking Shulk seems pretty boring as well.