The missing Melee Veterans.

[RomeDogg]

hey I am RomeDogg I made the poll for voting on which fallen Melee character(s) should make a come back in Project M if it were possible through a clone engine or other possibilities. I dont know how to make a poll here so until i figure that out or someone explains it to me we won't have one. Though we have the general Idea of who the Smash community favors for a return. MewTwo was in the lead with a landslide of the percentage and Roy came in second with a substantial amount of the percentage. Then the other 3 didn't have to many votes. The remainder went as this Pichu 3rd and Dr. Mario and Young Link were very close in votes I think if I remember correctly Dr. Mario may have had a few more votes that Yink. Anyway this threads purpose for now is to at least spark up some conversation on the fallen ones to kind of let everyone have a fundamental understanding on the community's views on these characters.

 

[RomeDogg]

Alright I'm going to start it off. Well I genuinely hate Toon Link well just because he is Toon Link and that's it. Since the PMBR team has added attributes of Young Link to Toon Link that pretty much ensures he wont make a return which is disappointing but you know what can you do? I am against the changing of the clones movesets in general. I mean as in replacing their moves with an entirely different move. Though I think If they would bring Young Link back his B specials would be an exception. Here are just a few changes I think would make it so it wouldn't feel as redundant with three Link characters which I would personally prefer getting Young Link back with his Melee moveset then revamping Toon Link to only use N64 and Toon Link Attributes. Anyway here they are.

-Down B bombs replaced with Bombchus
-Neutral B Arrows replaced with his sling shot.(maybe angle-able)
and I don't know what to replace his boomerang with.

 

[Jandlebars]

Good idea for a topic. :D

I think there should be more differentiation between Roy and Marth in terms of their moveset if the red-headed wonder-boy were to make a return. Nothing too big, but some changes in move animation and the properties of his specials would be cool.

I'd like Dancing Blade to be more useable, though, if it were to return as well. There's probably something different that could be added to his repertoire for a new Side B, maybe a quick horizontal dash with the Sword of Seals outstretched. A bit like Quick Draw, but without the charge up and a bit more maneuverability, like being able to shoot diagonally in the air via directional input.

 

[Stunts]

I know you guys are sick of me saying this, but look at how SD Remix handles them. It will be a good base starting point, then you could alter it from there. I really like the bombchu idea, it's kinda like a exploding thunder jolt.

APPEND: Don't worry about who makes it in P:M. If they can find a way to add one whole character, they can add them all.

 

[Spire]

I know the chances are wee slim, but I support Young Link over Toon Link as well. There are some fantastic Young Link skins out there that could be utilized.

 

[roymaster803]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Toon Link either. He just feels too different imo. Not that his changes are cool or anything, but It's like he's not his self.

 

[OSCA MIKE]

Mewtwo, if only because I'm interested in a reworked moveset/playstyle for him.

 

[RomeDogg]

Well I love MewTwo. When it comes to him I want his moveset to stay the same just with buffs. Like making his Down B work the same except give it 2 times the length or something like that. Then by making his side b faster with a little better range maybe or other tweaks. Then they should add more range to his fair and get rid of the tail sweet spot system. Also a faster up smash for sure. His downsmash needs tweak amongst other moves I am sure.

 

[Generically Epic]

Mewtwo most likely. Roy has a chance.
Mewtwo... I'd like to see him attack without using his tail...

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

The last thing I want to see is another version of Link, so I'd throw my hat in with Mewtwo or Roy. Mewtwo because he actually had a fully unique moveset and with a little work, he could be improved much like some of the more lackluster Melee characters in Project M have been. (Mario, Link, GW)

I wouldn't mind seeing a unique version of Roy, as I've recently played through Fire Emblem 6 and found him to be somewhat interesting, though he's no Marth personality wise or story wise.

 

[KayB]

Personally, I love Toon Link. I would choose TL over YL any day. As for Melee veterans, a buffed Mewtwo.

 

[Little Nemo]

Melee Link and Young Link and N64 Link and ALL the Links!
But seriously. I'd like Mewtwo simply because he isn't a clone. But if they could de-clone-ify Roy I'd be all for that. Roy's our boy.
Of course I would prefer adding all five. Even if they were just tweaked to be able to keep up with the other fighters with no move-set changes. The moor the merrier in my opinion.

 

[RomeDogg]

I think Roys Movesets should remain the same too with buffs. Like make his Melee swords sweet spot the entire length of the sword then replace his swords sweetspot with a way strong hit. Hell make his sweet spot like a hit from Bowser or Ganon since it is so hard to land. Or something like that I dont know.

 

[Sixth-Sense]

Since i really dislike the clone engine, i wouldn't want YLink over TLink, either way TLink is really fun and intresting, although i love your sling-shot idea , never would have thought of that, and it holds true to Ylink as well so i really like that one. Other than that i'd love to have Mewtwo in the game, mostly because of his moveset being different from all of the other's, since you know he's not a clone. Plus I think he's an extremly iconic character for Pokemon, although lots of people would disagree (well idk), and if they can't add him to the roster, i'd personally swap ivysaur out for Mewtwo, i guess it's just because of my boredom with Ivy, he's just so.......meh

 

[RomeDogg]

I love Ivysaur. Ivysaur = S3X. Though I want MewTwo in before any of the other fallen 5. I would replace Lucario with MewTwo cause I hate Lucario so much you wouldn't believe it. I think I primarily hate him because he replaced MewTwo and because he looks like something a 5 year old drew. Its like after the 1st generation the pokemon artists didnt even try anymore.

 

[JOE!]

Same guy drew both, lucario has a more complex design than mewtwo which is simple enough for your example of a 5 year old. Still doesn't mean he's not a bad design.

 

[Pwnz0rz Man]

The one thing that I'd like to see with Mewtwo is actually giving him attacks he'd actually have in a Pokemon game. Shadow Ball is fine, but Disable, Confusion? Really? I get that they work in a fighting environment, but only a total moron would leave those attacks on a Mewtwo. Perhaps a real example of why Mewtwo is an Uber Pokemon would make it a more vicious opponent in Smash.

 

[RomeDogg]

I just think its the most ******** looking thing I have seen like all new generation pokemon. He looks like a blue dog thingy with thorns stuck in his paws/ a bank robber with generic human hair wearing clown pants and a Labrador dog fur vest. Like what the hell? It looks like something Fabio would create while on bad shrooms. Though I understand some people like Lucario and I understand he is meant for little kids like pokemon is in general so its whatever. I just don't like him or Toon Link. The rest of the cast is awesome though. That's just my opinion.

Anyway on topic hell I even think bringing Pichu back and buffing him would be awesome. He was so insanely fast in Melee and would be legit balanced in Project M. Anyone else think Pichu should come back? I mean he is like a faster Pikachu with Captain Falcon ground to air momentum transfers plus he is a hard target to hit.

 

[ItalianStallion]

I am all for Mewtwo returning. I'm not against the others returning, but I really could care less if anyone else made it. Mewtwo is where it's at!

I however, feel that when it comes to his move-set, it NEEDS to be reworked. In order for him to be truly competitive in the tough PM environment, some of his moves need to go or change drastically. Just buffing his moves from Melee will not be enough in certain cases. For example, I see no real way Down-B could be buffed enough to be competitive while not being buffed too much to be overpowered. And Side-B is just utter garbage that should be replaced as well. Both of these moves are also not that interesting for a Pokemon of Mewtwo's caliber. It would be immensely more satisfying and interesting to have the community and PMBR replace these moves with new ones that truly add to his game of starting combos and riding them as long as he can.

I did a write-up going over every move in his arsenal and deciding how it should be changed. However, it was in the old forums. Here is the link (It's in the spoiler tag of the post I linked): http://www.smashmods.com/forum/thread-4824-post-82398.html#pid82398

With my proposed moveset, I tried to change what I believe should be changed while simultaneously trying to keep enough the same so he doesn't feel like a whole 'nother character. This write-up could be a way to start discussion on his moves. Post if you disagree with my move-set proposal and why. :D

 

[Mr.Pickle]

I read a good bit of your move set change proposal and I can agree with some things, but I think you went a little overboard on some stuff. I'll make an in depth critique later, but for right now I'll touch up on two things that caught my attention.

The first thing that caught my attention was jab, I agree that multi hit jab is useless, a simple two hit jab, with both hits serving different purposes, would be perfect.

I'll also list the thing that stood out the most that I disagree with, his recovery. You suggested that he should be able to airdodge out of it, and I strongly disagree with that. His recovery in melee is almost perfect, with the ability to gain extra height out of his double jump by doing an aerial at the apex of it, to the ability to gain an amazing amount of backwards horizontal movement by reversing a fully charged shadow ball, and not to mention the small amount of endlag up b has when used a certain distance from the stage. Imo he has all the tools necessary to not only mix up his recovery, but also gain the maximum distance for a relatively safe way to get back to the stage.

 

[ItalianStallion]

When I said Mewtwo should be able to airdodge out of his teleport, I meant like Zelda in PM. So he wouldn't be able to airdodge out of his teleport after he teleported, but before the teleport finished. So it wouldn't help with his recovery, but instead help with his stage movement by letting him waveland out of his teleport before it went the complete distance. Now, granted, it still could be too big of a buff, but it wouldn't buff his recovery. I agree that his recovery needs no buff.

Thanks for reading it. Glad you like the jab idea. That's actually what people seem to like the most.

 

[TheTTimeLives]

I agree about Mewtwo needing more interesting and useful specials. I think down b should mix up or reverse controls albeit briefly. That way, you can get some mix up situations that allow you to walk your opponents ill inputted mixup into a punish.

 

[Greenpoe]

I'd like to see Young Link make use of Deku Nuts. Convenient since they're already in the game!

Mewtwo...I'd love to see him have psychic moves in the classic sense - think of when Darth Vader uses The Force and uses his hand to choke someone, or lifts his hand up to lift them off the ground. More applicably, think of Mewtwo's forward B. I'd love to see moves where he makes subtle movements that end up having much larger hitboxes than the actual moves - that would show psychic ability. I didn't like how Mewtwo in Melee used so many physical attacks, like tail whips. If he's so powerful, why would he even bother? I mean, just look at him when he uses items! Too good to even touch them!

 

[Paradoxium]

I'm hoping mewtwo will make a return, but not as he was in melee. I actually loved mewtwo's playstyle in melee, wavedash, chaingrab, warp, ect. But if they stick to their word by saying they will incorporate the characters game into their moveset, then they will make mewtwo as he was in the original Pokemon games. Mewtwo was the god of Pokemon , he was extremely strong, blindingly fast, and had a high defense with a huge move pool. Mewtwo's melee playstyle is the exact opposite of how mewtwo really fights. I wish they would bring in the real mewtwo, and make a different Pokemon have the moves set of melee mewtwo. But sadly it probably won't happen.

 

[Team Giza]

I would think that the only way any of this would happen is if someone found a way to make it so the alloys could shield, grab ledges, and have B moves.

 

[SunJester]

Mewtwo first, Roy second. I genuinely think adding any of the other characters is a waste of time. Having 3 Links would be quite overkill (not to mention the fact that the two Links that they currently make games about are a more "adult" link and a toon link), Pichu is a joke and Dr Mario should be an alternate costume for Mario.

Personally I'd like to see Mewtwo and Roy to be their Melee selves with buffed moves. I think its easier in the long run, more familiar and they both already have competent designs that we KNOW already fits into a Melee environment.

Roy still being a clone is fine, in the metagame of Melee the clones can play almost completely different then their counterpart, though I'd like to see Roy's sword dance be totally pwn (was it good in Melee? its been so long)

I think the PMBR would be better off in the long run trying to add their own characters, rather then any of the other 3 characters dropped out of Melee.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I know the chances are wee slim, but I support Young Link over Toon Link as well. There are some fantastic Young Link skins out there that could be utilized.

Same here

I think Roy has the best chance, but I would love to see him and Mewtwo in P:M

 

[MVP]

Same here

I think Roy has the best chance, but I would love to see him and Mewtwo in P:M

I love both Roy and YL so much. But i think the most likely or the one to be implemented first if they can would be mewtwo

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I love both Roy and YL so much. But i think the most likely or the one to be implemented first if they can would be mewtwo

I think it would be Roy since they worked on his moveset for a while already

 

[MVP]

I think it would be Roy since they worked on his moveset for a while already

The PMBR worked on roy?

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

The PMBR worked on roy?

It was a long time ago, I remember seeing a stream with Roy in it, his side-tilt was changed to stabs that you could angle, the clone-engine was almost done but there was a problem with characters sharing the same special effects file or something

 

[Sixth-Sense]

It was a long time ago, I remember seeing a stream with Roy in it, his side-tilt was changed to stabs that you could angle, the clone-engine was almost done but there was a problem with characters sharing the same special effects file or something

woah seriously? But what happened then? i thought that having a clone engine wasn't going to happen for a long long time, who started working on it first?

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

woah seriously? But what happened then? i thought that having a clone engine wasn't going to happen for a long long time, who started working on it first?

Dantarion was working on it, but he ran into a problem, then he got bored, now he's got a job with coding so he won't be able to help much with anything as far as I can tell, it probably won't ever be finished but there's always a chance someone else will figure it out