The media talking about competitive Smash 4

[WastingPenguins]

Ok,
I'm not sure if this really warrants its own thread, but I couldn't figure out a better place to put it. Anyway, I was watching a video of the IGN Nintendo guys giving their impressions of the game and they devote half of the five minute discussion to talking about the game's competitive shortcomings. Watch it here: http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/06/12/going-hands-on-with-the-new-super-smash-bros-e3-2014

Granted, their knowledge of the exact problems are a bit limited, but I have to say, I think it's a BIG deal that a big gaming site like IGN is talking about the problems the demo seems to have in terms of competitive viability, and even talking about the chance of the game being changed for the better before release. They can spread the word a thousand times better than the rest of us whining on Twitter or Smashboards.

Has anyone else noticed any other discussions in the media of competitive Smash 4, as it relates to the E3 demo? What do you guys think about IGN talking about it at length on the front page of their site?

 

[salmonofdoubt]

I think this is a great point. Unless Nintendo and Sakurai directly reach out to the Smash community, well known media sites like IGN are going to be the best way to express our concerns publicly. We can post thoughtful, in depth analyses of Smash 4 game mechanics on Smashboards and Reddit unless our fingers bleed, but the chances of anyone in a position of power seeing them are very small.

For anyone who reads this thread and has a knack for writing, please submit an article to one of the big gaming sites that respectfully outlines the issues we noticed and what changes could improve the game. If you frame it as a narrative about the Smash community or your experience at E3, it will be more likely to be picked up as a story rather than just a list of demands. Also, make sure the writing is accessible to Smash players of all skill levels. I think even the most casual players will agree with our concerns if we present them clearly. (I'm speaking from experience here as a relatively casual player who came to understand the fundamental differences between each Smash game.)

 

[Senario]

It is a big deal, and I am happy they are covering it. What I am sad about is people's toxic attitude towards melee players as if we ever did anything to them. Most melee fan posts are very supportive and cool. And they offer constructive criticism. There will always be outliers but honestly when people keep throwing out arguments from ignorance and ad homenim attacks like "tourneyfag" it just makes me sad that these are the people the game has appealed to in the last two games. It'll be a great party game, probably not enough will change to make it a competitive fighter.

 

[Lugubrious]

It is a big deal, and I am happy they are covering it. What I am sad about is people's toxic attitude towards melee players as if we ever did anything to them. Most melee fan posts are very supportive and cool. And they offer constructive criticism. There will always be outliers but honestly when people keep throwing out arguments from ignorance and ad homenim attacks like "tourneyfag" it just makes me sad that these are the people the game has appealed to in the last two games. It'll be a great party game, probably not enough will change to make it a competitive fighter.

Please keep in mind that just as the arrogant challenger in the Smash roundtable doesn't stand for all competitive players, the hyper-casuals who decry all sorts of competitive play don't stand for all casual players.

 

[Senario]

Please keep in mind that just as the arrogant challenger in the Smash roundtable doesn't stand for all competitive players, the hyper-casuals who decry all sorts of competitive play don't stand for all casual players.

This is true but I cannot understand why they would care about the mechanics as long as the game is fun. These small details that are allowable like better mobility and lower landing lag just don't seem hard to access at all. And most people who I know that play casually don't care. They care more that new characters are announced with stages and stuff. The intricate details shouldn't matter to your average casual player.

 

[mogwaimon]

This is true but I cannot understand why they would care about the mechanics as long as the game is fun. These small details that are allowable like better mobility and lower landing lag just don't seem hard to access at all. And most people who I know that play casually don't care. They care more that new characters are announced with stages and stuff. The intricate details shouldn't matter to your average casual player.

This is very true, as a casual player I agree. I play with my buddies on Melee, Brawl, etc and the last thing they're thinking about is that there's some guy across the world that's a hundred times better than us. Casual players will play the game regardless, and have fun with it. Having competitive depth won't change that, although it will increase the griping from the 'vocal minority'. I think games would be better if they stopped catering to the LCD and designed games for EVERYONE like they used to, and not for 'Everyone including grandma who can't tell the difference between the toaster and the Wii and even the dog if he can get his mouth around the controller' like they do today.

Besides, you don't need so-called 'advanced techniques' to cause people to stop playing out of frustration. My buddies still won't play against my Snake in Brawl to this day, and my skills pale in comparison to even the most novice competitive player. No amount of pandering will change the fact that many people can't stand to lose in any capacity.

 

[Lugubrious]

This is true but I cannot understand why they would care about the mechanics as long as the game is fun. These small details that are allowable like better mobility and lower landing lag just don't seem hard to access at all. And most people who I know that play casually don't care. They care more that new characters are announced with stages and stuff. The intricate details shouldn't matter to your average casual player.

I believe it is because having advanced mechanics means that there are people who will be able to use them and those that are not, and those who do will have a crushing advantage over those who don't generally, which makes it far less fun for those who don't.

 

[DaDavid]

It is a big deal, and I am happy they are covering it. What I am sad about is people's toxic attitude towards melee players as if we ever did anything to them. Most melee fan posts are very supportive and cool. And they offer constructive criticism. There will always be outliers but honestly when people keep throwing out arguments from ignorance and ad homenim attacks like "tourneyfag" it just makes me sad that these are the people the game has appealed to in the last two games. It'll be a great party game, probably not enough will change to make it a competitive fighter.

The problem is that as a person who doesn't want the "tourneyfag" crowd to seem like you majority, you miss out on the fact that on here it really kind of is. There are plenty of quality pro-Melee posts on this site, but they are by no means the majority. There is easily much more annoying "lol Brawl 2.0, dis game sucks, Project M is the real sequel, Sakurai doesn't care anymore, etc" posts than there are well thought out criticisms as to why a certain person prefers Melee.

And that really is the problem. In the internet at large, it isn't about simple game preference. People who like one or the other type of play better flat out attack the others, and in the case of competitive fans, this means attacking casuals who aren't even aware of the community until members of it are in their face stating as fact that the game they like is garbage because of reasons they could care less about. How then can we blame the casuals who attack back?

We're poorly represented out in the world, and thus many people's first experience with a competitive Smash player is a negative one. Sadly it seems to be imploding from what I've seen. I specifically left Gamefaqs in favor of this site because of issues of elitism and immaturity, but over the last few days, much of this place feels no better.

To add my own take on the issue of AT's, I do think that they are a bigger barrier than we here make them out to be. Obviously Sakurai wants to make a game that many people can hop in on and play. A popular line around here is that "casuals will enjoy it anyway!" But people don't want to play a game that they are total ass at, and especially with online being a thing, AT's will definitely make it near impossible to feel good unless you start to get the hang of them.

So then you say, "if you wanna be good, you gotta practice." Fair enough, but the majority of people buying this type of game (a game marketed as a party game) don't think anything beyond "play more" as being needed to get better.

Do I mean that I agree with the game being designed with this in mind? No, not exactly. Would I prefer we had AT's to play around with? Absolutely. I'm just saying that whenever I hear people talk about how advanced techs cannot possibly harm the experience of the casuals... I have to wonder how much actual real experience they have with such players in more games than just Smash.

 

[Senario]

I believe it is because having advanced mechanics means that there are people who will be able to use them and those that are not, and those who do will have a crushing advantage over those who don't generally, which makes it far less fun for those who don't.

Well that is the thing, we don't ask for advanced tech really anymore. Wavedashing can be replaced by fast dash speed and better dash mechanics. L cancelling and by extension auto cancelling can be replaced with plain lower landing lag across the board. Advanced tech is great but not inclusive. Compare it to EV training in pokemon. If you did it you have a very good advantage over others. In the most recent game, they didn't remove the mechanic but made it simpler and easier to access for more casual players. This is the right way to take it and l cancelling and mobility options don't need to be so complicated. You land while doing an air move and you get low lag after landing. You can dash/dash cancel for dash dancing and running around as well as your momentum carrying over to jumping and that would be fine too. Very accessible but still conductive to competitive play.

 

[Ulevo]

I'm impressed IGN would highlight this. That being said, I think they have naive expectations on how Sakurai or Nintendo will address the fanbase.

 

[WastingPenguins]

I actually agree with you, Ulevo, but reports like this at least have the tiniest potential to get SOMEONE'S attention, unlike posts on this forum.

 

[skstylez]

That's because Jose Otero is one of the few people who acts like a professional game journalist. He researches every game to understand every side of it. How many times have you read an article where the comments section is more informing than the article itself? Props to Otero as usual