Q&A The 'Mains' Advice Thread

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Wait... you really think is top tier? (leaves room, laughing hysterically)
Next best thing would be to try , pretty much a faster and more precise . I placed Fox in the top 8 on my personal list (newly updated, fit to my own opinion!)

edit: OK, I guess Earth did just sweep Sumabato with a Pit. Hey, why can't there be exhibition tournaments like that in America?

 

[Dream Cancel]

The Legendary DJXYZ I wanna use 3 just for fun factor and I like all 3 so much. Now if down the road it ends up being ridiculous then I'll drop one and go with 2. Now thankfully after hearing from local friends and thinking on it I'm going to go with for sure. Now for the third I had to focus on my 2 worst match ups with those two. And . Now, I play pika so I can just go with the ditto and have a 50:50. And Sheik vs Mario is about even so here's where I decided. There is 1 notable Pikachu in my region, and a multitude of Mario's. My 3rd place choices were between , who beats Pikachu, but looses to Mario, and , who beats Mario, but looses to Pikachu. Obviously I have much more use for since he beats Mario as well as Cloud so that's nice to have 3 characters who all beat Cloud. So, I'm going with Corrin as my third. This way I do still have a swordsmen, a FE representative, and I have a character from each of my three favorite game series; LOZ, FE, and Pokemon. So I've got my three. . Is this a good decision? Are there any MUs that body or beat me?

Short answer:

Player skill is more important than your MU spread, especially since you posess multiple top/high tiers. Cloud alone is enough to win the largest tournaments.

Try Mewtwo, Ryu, DK, or Bayonetta against Sheik since she is Cloud's worst MU, not Diddy, Pikachu, or Mario. Learn Banana counter-play for Diddy.

Long answer:

Spoiler

But, since you're looking to cover bad MUs, look at the at the pros and cons of both Cloud and Captain Falcon.

Cloud:
++ Excellent range, mobility, KO Power
+ Good frame data for a swordsman
+ Good edgeguarding
+ Excellent get-up option coverage
+ Great OoS options like Up Smash, Up B, Dair, Uair, and Nair
+++ Limit. Just Limit. This allows flexibility in playstyle and enhanced abilites.
+ Can't be effectively outcamped because of limit charge.

- Vulnerable recovery. No ledge snap and purely vertical path.
- Frame 4 jab is his fastest attacking option.
- Characters with stronger or unique neutrals can be difficult because they are more likely to force him off-stage and consequently edgeguard him or force him to burn his limit.

Captain Falcon
+ Excellent speed and power.
+ Stylish punish game.
+ Insane dash grab.
+ Strong burst options, notably Side B.
+ Command grab in the form of Up B is great for shield-happy opponents.
+ Good close-quarters combat.
+ Fantastic aerial moveset.

+/- Linear gameplan is fantastic when it works, awful when it doesn't.

- Overly reliant on Dash Attack, Dash Grab, and falling Aerials for any meaningful combos.
- Not many grounded defensive options outside of Shielding, Bairs, and gtfo Jabs. Movement is his primary defense.
- Not many effective OoS options.
- No hitbox on his recovery leaves him disadvantaged off-stage with limited options.

There may be more that I left out in these pros and cons, but, notice that Cloud and Captain Falcon are fairly similar tool-wise. So, you should be watching out for any character that can beat you in neutral then capitalize by edgeguarding you well. (Keep in mind that people can still outplay you in neutral despite any disadvantage they may have.)

So which characters have the strongest neutrals? (This is just my opinion. By strong I mean they have multiple effective options or one polarizing option that they base neutral on.)

- Sheik
- Diddy Kong
- Rosalina & Luma
- Fox
- Mewtwo

Cloud can handle Rosa and M2 well, Fox is a featherweight fast-faller so one mistake from him can be very costly, although his bait and punish style (plus lasers) can be mentally taxing. We can eliminate those three for any theoretical need for a secondary. That leaves us with Diddy Kong and Sheik.

Diddy Kong's gameplan is distinctly defined by his possesion of the banana. If he doesn't have it or if you have it(!), Cloud is in a much better position because Diddy's only pressure options are his Side B, rising aerials, and dash grab. (And maybe his peanuts but those are easy to shield) This is easy to combat as Cloud due to superior range and mobility on top of being able to force approaches with Blade Beam and Limit Charge.

If Diddy has his banana, then the MU evens up a bit because he gains many options that enable him to play his pressuring neutral game very well. Basically, banana counter-play is more important against Diddy than a character counter-pick.

Sheik is the only character you need to worry about. Pikachu's approaches are similar to Diddy without a Banana (but he has Quick Attack), and Mario suffers from a severe lack of range. (With the exception of U-Smash, F-Smash, and Bair, and even those don't reach too far) Projectile counter-play is what you need, but there is hardly any to Sheik's needles and her safety. The MU against Sheik is a big mindgame and while you have the advantage in range and power, she has the advantage in speed and safety.

I recommend anyone can make winning trades with her in neutral, along with a fairly safe recovery that is difficult to exploit. Characters that come to mind are Mewtwo or Bayonetta. Either that or characters that trade an effective neutral for absurdly strong KO Power like DK or Ryu.

TL;DR if you're losing neutral as Cloud and they're not Sheik, you're probably doing something wrong.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Looking through my tournament records, I've come to the conclusion that playing Mid and Low tiers arent going to let me win tournaments as consistently as I want to. With not taking a local tournament even once, I'd like to finally ask for some help deciding some Top Tier characters since the only one I really have at the moment is and who I don't play as much.

I've narrowed my list down to a few characters I'm willing to practice around with and I'd like some insight on each one so I can decide which one I will work on.
/
Alternatively, I can continue to work on and but I would like to add another character to that list and put away as a pocket.

Who are the most common characters in your area? Which do the top ten use? I'll help you counterpick.

Dream Cancel I'm confused. Are you telling me not to use all 3 and I do t need to try anyone else since I've got my characters decided already. And I don't use cloud.

 

[Synchronize]

Who are the most common characters in your area? Which do the top ten use? I'll help you counterpick.

Dream Cancel I'm confused. Are you telling me not to use all 3 and I do t need to try anyone else since I've got my characters decided already. And I don't use cloud.

My area is really friggin weird. Theres a huge mix but most of what I see are and

Wait... you really think is top tier? (leaves room, laughing hysterically)
Next best thing would be to try , pretty much a faster and more precise . I placed Fox in the top 8 on my personal list (newly updated, fit to my own opinion!)

edit: OK, I guess Earth did just sweep Sumabato with a Pit. Hey, why can't there be exhibition tournaments like that in America?

Mostly because I always see in top 8 in my local tournys. He's also really popular where and I barely see him outside my area so I just assume hes good but underused

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

My area is really friggin weird. Theres a huge mix but most of what I see are and


Mostly because I always see in top 8 in my local tournys. He's also really popular where and I barely see him outside my area so I just assume hes good but underused

Well the best choices are . You say there are lots of so it'd be better to use someone else. Keep she does well in this crowd. So those three add your best choices to go along with ZSS. You can keep Corrin too if you want to. What are your thoughts on the three?

 

[Synchronize]

Well the best choices are . You say there are lots of so it'd be better to use someone else. Keep she does well in this crowd. So those three add your best choices to go along with ZSS. You can keep Corrin too if you want to. What are your thoughts on the three?

: I actually played a lot of him in the first few months but I couldnt keep up with the new tech so I just put him away. I don't see that much new tech coming for anymore so I could get back into him and learn the new tech. I also dropped him because I felt like his combo game didn't have much of an excitement factor in it.

: Ugh, was kind of hoping not to get stuck with a bit. I've tried playing her for a while but it was too difficult for me to pull off all her tech constantly. Its probably a lot easier now since a lot of my play is extremely technical now.

: I do still play a decent amount of even after her nerf and after playing her in a match in the last tourny, I wasn't rusty at all so picking her back up shouldn't be troublesome.

: Yeah theres probably no way I'll ever drop her. is just one of those characters I loved who just happened to get an inclusion in Sm4sh so I don't think I'll drop her at all.



Currently I'm thinking to making my list:
(Assuming I can actually pull off her tech consistently)


With a pocket

Probably going to mainly play and but having up there will help cover more counters.

If possible can you tell me what counters the three?

 

[KniteBlargh]

was not specifically mentioned as a top tier, but a character they said they'd be willing to learn, and in view of Pit's balanced nature and MU spread, it really shouldn't be that surprising that someone who wants to move up would consider such a character over a low or mid choice. Pit can go head-to-head with just about anyone in the roster, but has to work through a longer game in some cases, calling for a good sense of when to exercise patience. And yes, Earth has proved him capable many times regardless of tournament placement.

Anyway Synchronize , definitely give a shot, but don't feel you HAVE to keep her. You'd quite honestly be doing just fine focusing more on and . I see a lot of people claiming ZSS is basic, but she really thrives on technical play, so you should find you have a lot of fun options to play around with.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

: I actually played a lot of him in the first few months but I couldnt keep up with the new tech so I just put him away. I don't see that much new tech coming for anymore so I could get back into him and learn the new tech. I also dropped him because I felt like his combo game didn't have much of an excitement factor in it.

: Ugh, was kind of hoping not to get stuck with a bit. I've tried playing her for a while but it was too difficult for me to pull off all her tech constantly. Its probably a lot easier now since a lot of my play is extremely technical now.

: I do still play a decent amount of even after her nerf and after playing her in a match in the last tourny, I wasn't rusty at all so picking her back up shouldn't be troublesome.

: Yeah theres probably no way I'll ever drop her. is just one of those characters I loved who just happened to get an inclusion in Sm4sh so I don't think I'll drop her at all.



Currently I'm thinking to making my list:
(Assuming I can actually pull off her tech consistently)


With a pocket

Probably going to mainly play and but having up there will help cover more counters.

If possible can you tell me what counters the three?

But goes even or beats Cloud and can take on Pikachu.

 

[Synchronize]

Have a local tournament this weekend and honestly, I've spent all my time practicing and playing some friendlies with and I am not confident at all. I can do all the stuff like Lunar Landing follow ups, boost grabs, etc but I cannot find openings to use them (aside from boost grabs). My play consists of a lot of dash dancing, fox trotting, B-Reverses, and before I jump I always turn around so I'm in position for a B-Air instead of a F-Air. does not fit this play at all. I think can make up for decently well so I'd like to come back and ask for help on a new main. I'll put up the list of characters I've narrowed down and willing to practice and play for long periods of time

and a new one to the list:

 

[KniteBlargh]

Synchronize Well I can tell you right now that B-reversing is not very useful for , and while could use it as a sudden mix-up with KO punch, a guaranteed KO punch is much preferred (though granted, not always an option), and his uncharged punch takes too much time to release for it to be a good surprise to an opponent chasing you down. / get use out of B-reverses, but you do have to make absolutely certain that that's what you perform; going into a side special accidentally at a bad time can set you up for death.

is still more about the fairs than the bairs, though bair strings do exist and should be counted as an option.

I'm leaning toward or for everything you want out of your choice, but maybe Cloud a bit more? If nothing else, just for variety since you still plan to keep a pocket .

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Synchronize Well I can tell you right now that B-reversing is not very useful for , and while could use it as a sudden mix-up with KO punch, a guaranteed KO punch is much preferred (though granted, not always an option), and his uncharged punch takes too much time to release for it to be a good surprise to an opponent chasing you down. / get use out of B-reverses, but you do have to make absolutely certain that that's what you perform; going into a side special accidentally at a bad time can set you up for death.

is still more about the fairs than the bairs, though bair strings do exist and should be counted as an option.

I'm leaning toward or for everything you want out of your choice, but maybe Cloud a bit more? If nothing else, just for variety since you still plan to keep a pocket .

Relys heavily on b reversing with needles. Would be good choices. Too buy be warned Little Mac is very hard to play. If you want results then play . Trust me you'll sweep through anyone. Will be your toughest MU so learn it with ZSS Id say.

 

[Nu~]

Typically control-based zoner lack moves that assassins would usually have. You're going to have to sacrifice qualities of a zoner if you want to play more like a ninja, and vice versa.

This leads into my recommendations, which are and/or . Honorable mentions are , , , and . (These are all on the more technical side btw)

So let me first say that few characters have the creativity that Pac-Man has through what you have described. I would mention other characters with good trapping games, but none of them can play different styles to decent degrees of success, especially since you're looking for a more ninja-like one.

is obviously your evasive ninja. He has those "WTF" moments through his flashy combos and edge guarding. His shuriken is a great projectile that can frustrate people into approaching you, which is what you want as the frog. However, this character is furthest away from Pac-Man moveset-wise, but he has great flair to him which is fun once you get the hang of.

Lucas is on the rise competitively, and for good reason. Zair and PK Fire let him zone well enough and his combo game is great. He has a very rewarding grab and he can play excellent mind games due to his good footsies and powerful smashes. He is more well-rounded suggestion.

I can go more in depth if you want more information, I don't really feel like going into things that the character boards have already said about their characters. All the characters (except G&W) have good mix-ups and tricks that can really throw off people.

I apologize for my late response, but thank you a ton.

and are both a little too linear for my taste. Both get most of their damage from grabs and play a rather basic neutral game. Villager's low mobility is a turn off for me, but I really liked the aggressive, tricky playstyle that Ranai had when using him.



I definitely like the greninja and mega man suggestions however. Greninja is just a bit slippery to use at first so I was driven away from him at release. Mega man's heavy focus on the neutral (pellets for dayz) can get a bit boring after a while for me personally, but I love his tool box based specials and awesome aerial movement.

 

[Dream Cancel]

I apologize for my late response, but thank you a ton.

and are both a little too linear for my taste. Both get most of their damage from grabs and play a rather basic neutral game. Villager's low mobility is a turn off for me, but I really liked the aggressive, tricky playstyle that Ranai had when using him.



I definitely like the greninja and mega man suggestions however. Greninja is just a bit slippery to use at first so I was driven away from him at release. Mega man's heavy focus on the neutral (pellets for dayz) can get a bit boring after a while for me personally, but I love his tool box based specials and awesome aerial movement.

I feel you with getting used to Greninja. I've usually mained slower characters throughout the Smash games, (I main Robin with a Fox secondary) but I loved Brawl Fox and Brawl Sheik for some reason lol. But getting used to how slippery some of the faster characters are is a real chore, but some of their playstyles were fairly intuitive to me once I understood their movesets. (And got my hands up to speed e_e)

As for Mega Man, just think of it as if you're playing a Mega Man game. His moveset really lends himself to this controlled and thoughtful playstyle, I mean you're the Super Fighting Robot so... \_(^.^)_/

Anyways, just look for things that you like in Pac-Man and see if you can find similar things in other characters.

 

[Nu~]

I feel you with getting used to Greninja. I've usually mained slower characters throughout the Smash games, (I main Robin with a Fox secondary) but I loved Brawl Fox and Brawl Sheik for some reason lol. But getting used to how slippery some of the faster characters are is a real chore, but some of their playstyles were fairly intuitive to me once I understood their movesets. (And got my hands up to speed e_e)

As for Mega Man, just think of it as if you're playing a Mega Man game. His moveset really lends himself to this controlled and thoughtful playstyle, I mean you're the Super Fighting Robot so... \_(^.^)_/

Anyways, just look for things that you like in Pac-Man and see if you can find similar things in other characters.

Yeah, I was a fan of brawl wolf and G&W. Okayish speed on the ground with great aerial mobility.

I certainly will! I think I'm definitely leaning more towards mega man. I think now is the time for me to get some mega man games to play so I can get a better feel for him lol

 

[C0rvus]

So, after trying to rule out and focus on finding which character archetypes I enjoy and don't as much, and getting some advice from some friends, I have drawn some conclusions:

-I am pretty mediocre and have a lot to work on. Pretty obvious stuff, I know. Good to acknowledge this fact I think.

-First off, I seem to be best at zoning characters. However, this may have no bearing on my style and might just be a comfort thing. (Corrin feels pretty comfortable but I honestly think it's because the character is easy to play.)

-I don't enjoy or excel at turtling. My Wii Fit Trainer has only gotten worse. I used to play Toon Link a while back, but I would often crumble against especially patient opponents. Perhaps something to work on, but I'm not certain I care to try.

-Pressure characters are hard. I think they are usually the more difficult type to get started with, but my mind doesn't speak their language, if that makes sense. I enjoy a couple of these kinds, more on that later.

-The big one. I need to pick a character and focus on them. Just one. And it has to be someone I find good, or that notion will get in the way of my mentality. They don't have to have no bad matchups, I intend to get secondary at some point. My friend told me to pick one arbitrarily if I have to, but to pick a character where I like their strengths more than their flaws.

So no Duck Hunt, no Bowser, no Roy, possibly no Corrin, possibly no Bayo, etc. I say possibly because I personally find those 2 not as good as most people say, but I suppose my mind could be changed. I guess I don't have a real question for this post, but this is the process I am going through. 2 years, boys. Gotta break the curse and get my main. Oh, and work on my mindset. That's the big one.

ALSO a few days ago I tried to group the cast into 5 primary archetypes. I could post about that if people are interested.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

C0rvus Do you want a top tier or not?
Best ranked zoning character is Rosaluma. She might be the right choice for you, being probably the most aggressive zoner. She also doesn't require pressuring to be effective, so that's another plus.

 

[C0rvus]

It's not that I don't like to apply pressure, rather an archetype of characters I dubbed "Pressure Characters" (very vague name I know) don't come very naturally to me, but I think that's normal. Characters like Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Cloud, and Sonic were among those in this group. I can elaborate further if anyone cares.

Actually I think I would want a character who can apply pressure, if anything. I was quite interested in potentially playing Greninja, but it's been brought to my attention that because of the nature of his moves, his pressure isn't very strong at all. Hell, he seems to struggle to whiff punish from what I've seen.

At the moment of posting, the characters I am most interested in are as follows:
granted all in varying degrees of "This might suit me" or "I like this character in theory but playing them isn't so fun".
Of these I am already decent at or have practice with:
Of those, I think highly of (is very good but is more of a counterpick character imo)

This is likely my group of characters to pull from. The rest aren't as fun () or I am bad at them (). I'll probably mess around with them and examine each's strengths and weaknesses and pick one somewhat arbitrarily. Thing is, KTAR is on Saturday, so I have to sort through this AND fix my mentality by then. Wish me luck!

Perhaps I should list characters I enjoy but I wouldn't attempt to solo main or invest in full time:

And no, they don't have to be top tier, but if the character I end up with is top tier, I ain't complaining.

 

[teddystalin]

You've spoken a lot about what your weakness and what you dislike, but what other than zoning do you consider a strength of your play? Judging by the fact that you don't find Rosa or Megaman that fun to play, you clearly don't want to spend all your time threatening space in the neutral. My first instinct after reading your first post was Mewtwo, but it's harder to chose from the list given with the information we've got.

I do agree that a lot of your problem seems to stem from mentality. Last summer I sat down to grind out a new main from an archetype I was unused to and quickly got frustrated with their weaknesses. But your friends are right when they say you need to stick with it: eventually you'll work to minimize their flaws and struggle to go without their strengths.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

It's not that I don't like to apply pressure, rather an archetype of characters I dubbed "Pressure Characters" (very vague name I know) don't come very naturally to me, but I think that's normal. Characters like Pac-Man, Duck Hunt, Cloud, and Sonic were among those in this group. I can elaborate further if anyone cares.

Actually I think I would want a character who can apply pressure, if anything. I was quite interested in potentially playing Greninja, but it's been brought to my attention that because of the nature of his moves, his pressure isn't very strong at all. Hell, he seems to struggle to whiff punish from what I've seen.

At the moment of posting, the characters I am most interested in are as follows:
granted all in varying degrees of "This might suit me" or "I like this character in theory but playing them isn't so fun".
Of these I am already decent at or have practice with:
Of those, I think highly of (is very good but is more of a counterpick character imo)

This is likely my group of characters to pull from. The rest aren't as fun () or I am bad at them (). I'll probably mess around with them and examine each's strengths and weaknesses and pick one somewhat arbitrarily. Thing is, KTAR is on Saturday, so I have to sort through this AND fix my mentality by then. Wish me luck!

Perhaps I should list characters I enjoy but I wouldn't attempt to solo main or invest in full time:

And no, they don't have to be top tier, but if the character I end up with is top tier, I ain't complaining.

If youve still got a lot of stuff to work on then don't pick a very hard character to play. It'll be too much. So the three best would be and maybe but only if you already have a very good handle on him already. If not then don't use him he's hard. All of them are solo viable, though a pocket couldn't hurt but isn't needed. Though all but Yoshi have 1 big weakness. Neutral sucks. No question. Worst in the game possibly. Doesn't like being up close at all and his combos aren't very lengthy but his tipper makes up for it with damage. Is combo food but he's good enough to not suck. He's comboed like . Those 4 are your best bets after what you've said. Is very technical so unless you e got and excellent handle in him like Yoshi then wait.

 

[C0rvus]

I appreciate the feedback. Part of the issue is that I am largely unaware of my own strengths, I only know of some of my weaknesses; I shield and air dodge too much, use neutral getup far too liberally, generally lack confidence yet still go for hard-ass reads that get me into trouble, I try too hard to get perfect pivot attacks out. This kinda goes back to the mentality thing, but is mostly just something I have to watch some old sets and try to look for the good parts. I guess I like to be "in control" but who doesn't lol.

I guess when it comes to characters, I am quite good at focusing on the weaknesses I don't like, such as Bayonetta's neutral (which isn't nearly that bad, she just struggles against characters with top tier neutral, but who doesn't) or Yoshi's utter lack of a grab game. I should be looking at each one's strengths and thinking "Can I work with this? Would I like to?"

Take ROB for example, I do enjoy his gyro setups in theory, and his general design of hybrid zoner-grappler, but his huge weakness to being juggled and pressured offstage makes me less than enthusiastic when playing him, as I feel very worried about being put into disadvantage. Likely a confidence thing I could stand to work on, but characters like Bayo or Yoshi with particularly good disadvantage looks very tempting for a player like me. Not sure if it's a preference or a lack of confidence tbh.

Bayo, Marth, and Yoshi are looking like the big 3 at the moment. Thanks for your posts. Nice to have outside opinions for this process.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I appreciate the feedback. Part of the issue is that I am largely unaware of my own strengths, I only know of some of my weaknesses; I shield and air dodge too much, use neutral getup far too liberally, generally lack confidence yet still go for hard-*** reads that get me into trouble, I try too hard to get perfect pivot attacks out. This kinda goes back to the mentality thing, but is mostly just something I have to watch some old sets and try to look for the good parts. I guess I like to be "in control" but who doesn't lol.

I guess when it comes to characters, I am quite good at focusing on the weaknesses I don't like, such as Bayonetta's neutral (which isn't nearly that bad, she just struggles against characters with top tier neutral, but who doesn't) or Yoshi's utter lack of a grab game. I should be looking at each one's strengths and thinking "Can I work with this? Would I like to?"

Take ROB for example, I do enjoy his gyro setups in theory, and his general design of hybrid zoner-grappler, but his huge weakness to being juggled and pressured offstage makes me less than enthusiastic when playing him, as I feel very worried about being put into disadvantage. Likely a confidence thing I could stand to work on, but characters like Bayo or Yoshi with particularly good disadvantage looks very tempting for a player like me. Not sure if it's a preference or a lack of confidence tbh.

Bayo, Marth, and Yoshi are looking like the big 3 at the moment. Thanks for your posts. Nice to have outside opinions for this process.

If you shield a lot then use a character with good grabs. So Yoshi or Marth beat Bayonetta there though bayo wins with air dodging due due frame 1 invincibility

 

[Dream Cancel]

-snip-
The rest aren't as fun () or I am bad at them ().

You can't be bad with Ike when this exists.
https://youtu.be/qfjw5DygdPU - Art of Ike, by Izaw.

Even if you don't main Ike, his fundamentals apply to every character, so at the very least you should learn him.

 

[C0rvus]

I saw that and that's why he's on the list at all, actually. I've never had a lick of interest in Ike otherwise. I may practice one up to practice fundamentals, but tbh I can apply the stuff from that video to every character. So it would likely be more worth my time to pick a character as usual and work on those concepts with them.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Oh, you're going to this KTAR. I'm not, I'm totally not good enough anymore lol...

KTAR's not really the place to experiment, so pick one character that you know will do well. You probably want to pick someone that nobody there is going to know how to challenge. are all safe to play solo, but from my experience at the last KTAR, I can confirm to you that people have a tough time with . I got most of my friendly wins with him. (I got a lot of friendly wins, despite getting bopped in bracket) Normally, Elu and Techei are enough 'Ninja for one tournament, but they don't always make it into the final bracket, so go ahead and give it a shot.

Now I see you dropped Ninja. OK, that's still fine, good luck.

 

[Dream Cancel]

I saw that and that's why he's on the list at all, actually. I've never had a lick of interest in Ike otherwise. I may practice one up to practice fundamentals, but tbh I can apply the stuff from that video to every character. So it would likely be more worth my time to pick a character as usual and work on those concepts with them.

Whatever floats your boat, of your big 3 I don't know who to suggest, so it's down to personal preference.

Good luck at KTAR!

 

[C0rvus]

Oh, you're going to this KTAR. I'm not, I'm totally not good enough anymore lol...

KTAR's not really the place to experiment, so pick one character that you know will do well. You probably want to pick someone that nobody there is going to know how to challenge. are all safe to play solo, but from my experience at the last KTAR, I can confirm to you that people have a tough time with . I got most of my friendly wins with him. (I got a lot of friendly wins, despite getting bopped in bracket) Normally, Elu and Techei are enough 'Ninja for one tournament, but they don't always make it into the final bracket, so go ahead and give it a shot.

Now I see you dropped Ninja. OK, that's still fine, good luck.

It's not about being good enough, otherwise I wouldn't be going haha. You should totally come to KTAR if you can. I'll likely go 0-2 but I wanna learn and play friendlies until my eyes bleed.
And Greninja isn't exactly off the table, but as you said, he's a bit harder than the rest. For long term, he is very much a consideration. But, for the sake of KTAR, I may prefer someone I know a bit better. Still, not like I'm going to do much better with a character I know well... I dunno. This is so hard :U

 

[Nu~]

Hm...well a day of mega man and I'm already quite bored of him. He plays a little too chip-by-chip for me. Harass the opponent endlessly while trying to keep up a great zone.

I dislike that he almost completely lacks a decent advantage state...

Onto greninja!

 

[GreenTheAssassin]

So i've posted here before but because im terrible at maining someone and really wanna fix that problem.

First a have a few questions

1) Is there a way to catagorise the characters and their playstyles?

2) Is maining a high tier a bad thing?

3) What are fox's best and worst matchups? (I like fox)

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

So i've posted here before but because im terrible at maining someone and really wanna fix that problem.

First a have a few questions

1) Is there a way to catagorise the characters and their playstyles?

2) Is maining a high tier a bad thing?

3) What are fox's best and worst matchups? (I like fox)

If you go on each character's pages you'll see their playstyle and stuff. Also you'd see foxes matchups. And playing a high tier is an amazing idea. Top and high tiers are what get you results and wins that you want. That's why I switched from a low/mid to a top tier . Which characters do you like and consider maining? We'll help you decide.

 

[C0rvus]

So i've posted here before but because im terrible at maining someone and really wanna fix that problem.

First a have a few questions

1) Is there a way to catagorise the characters and their playstyles?

2) Is maining a high tier a bad thing?

3) What are fox's best and worst matchups? (I like fox)

1. I was working on a chart that tried to categorize the cast's play styles. Generally, I found 5 major archetypes (Pressure, Turtle, Zoner, Mix-Up/Aggression, Punisher/Grappler). While most characters can be played in different ways, I think they are all predominantly one of these. It may be a bit disingenuous since grouping them so vaguely doesn't tell the whole story, or my combination of archetypes isn't the optimal one, but whatever.

2. Short answer is no, in fact it's actually a good thing.

3. Fox does very well against the cast in general, but his losing matchups tend to be against Sheik, arguably Rosalina, arguably Bayonetta, arguably Luigi. Even his losing matchups aren't by much, he also has some random even matchups with characters like Marth and Doctor Mario.

By design he is very capable of dominating his opponent with his frame data, damage output and speed. But he is also pretty vulnerable to combos because of his fast fall speed and weight, and he is among the easiest in the cast to edgeguard. So you have to be on point with him to do well. I think he's very much worth pursuing, as he will teach you stage control and punish you for losing neutral harder than most. If you enjoy him, by all means go all in on him. He won't do you wrong.

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

Fox is top tier. In Smash 4, after the many balance patches, there is no problem with playing a top tier- it's actually encouraged. Unless it's , sometimes that will get you some askance looks. (that means skeptical or disapproving, btw)
If you can handle the speed, go ahead and try , he's pretty solo viable, and if you need a secondary, there's over 50 options out there for you to choose.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Fox is top tier. In Smash 4, after the many balance patches, there is no problem with playing a top tier- it's actually encouraged. Unless it's , sometimes that will get you some askance looks. (that means skeptical or disapproving, btw)
If you can handle the speed, go ahead and try , he's pretty solo viable, and if you need a secondary, there's over 50 options out there for you to choose.

He's totally solo viable. Just watchout for since they're his worst matchups. A good secondary would be . They're easy to use. There are others but these are the best.

 

[komaul]

Hey so I thought I'd reach out for some advice from the community for choosing a main. I've been going to weeklies and monthlies more and more but feel like I haven't found an ideal fit to what I enjoy in this game. When I ask my friends about this kind of stuff they never give me a direct answer or reasoning why or the reason seems really underwhelming. ( Cuz he's blonde! Yeah!)

I'm not a fan of camping at all. I don't mind spacing with projectiles but can't force myself to play only using those tools. I'm also not a great aggressor, though I've been better recently. If anything, the only recurring word I hear about me is I'm "Safe" in game.

My best records are from /, both of which I enjoy, but it never feels like I'm outplaying the opponent, rather they just go ham and I land a tilt at the right time. I've also played and but with lower results, usually with someone by the end telling me they don't fit how I play. I don't have many no fly zones in the game (Camping comment excluded) and would love to hear some feedback. Would even add people if they would want to play to make any observations.

 

[GreenTheAssassin]

He's totally solo viable. Just watchout for since they're his worst matchups. A good secondary would be . They're easy to use. There are others but these are the best.

I have some practise with diddy and zero suit. Sounds like im gonna be using them as secondaries

 

[The Legendary DJXYZ]

"Safe" style characters are more the defensive type. They're more rarely seen in tournament, due to those who prefer a heavy rushdown style. The following characters are sometimes underrated, but effective if played with caution.

 

[komaul]

"Safe" style characters are more the defensive type. They're more rarely seen in tournament, due to those who prefer a heavy rushdown style. The following characters are sometimes underrated, but effective if played with caution.

Thank you for the response! Caution is a pretty good line of thinking. I generally won't do anything extremely risky unless I feel I'm ahead. I might give some tries, the others though I found myself not having too much fun on.

 

[KniteBlargh]

komaul I would actually recommend trying (I'd suggest some others, but I'm posting in a rush, sorry!) since you've seemingly had some interest in . He can't abuse his lasers, so you don't have to worry about him having too campy of a playstyle, but they're still useful in the right circumstances (his reflector also helps him deal with characters who can out-camp him, thus aiding your "safe" playstyle). He has some cool throw combos at lower %s to help get up some quick damage. Also, call me crazy, but since you like , I think with some time you'll find there are some similarities shared between the two in feel with some of their moves that you would never experience from playing Fox.

Edit: Oh, and as far as and go, I have a hunch you'd get more enjoyment out of Palutena than you would Pac-Man based on the info you gave.

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

Thank you for the response! Caution is a pretty good line of thinking. I generally won't do anything extremely risky unless I feel I'm ahead. I might give some tries, the others though I found myself not having too much fun on.

I'd say still with . He's a great character and he can space but isn't campy. Though you're issue would be fighting since none of your characters can beat him. But it's just him so learn the matchup. Characters I would suggest are . They do good against Ike's bad MUs and can zone but aren't zoners.

 

[bubbyq12]

I have a problem with consistently keeping to one main. Who I main usually cycles on a weekly basis (because I'll play a character for a couple of days, get bored, and than move on to another person) and I don't know how to fix that. I usually cycle between and , and I occasionally go to and . I can play them solidly, but I want to get really really good at one of them, but I don't know which one. I feel like fits my desired play style the most because I love the fact that she has range, can play solidly both offensively and defensively, a great side B, a great nair, lots of aerial combos, and an amazing counter (I used to play but gave up on him when I realized that is just kind of a better version of him).I most consistently win with and I do enjoy her ( especially Witch Timing people), but she doesn't have a lot of range in my opinion, and her projectile isn't the greatest, but I really appreciate her sass and her bravado. The reason I keep cycling back to is because I feel the most comfortable with him, and I've played him since the beginning (plus I enjoy the character himself) and I feel bad whenever I move on to someone else, so I go back to him. Personally, I love and as characters but I don't think I could main them because I've tried and they just don't fit what I want in a character. SSB4 is the only video game I play, so I have no ties to any other franchises, therefore I only get to know characters through who they are in SSB4. Would it be easier to pick a main and stick to them if I got to know the characters' backstories? How do I stop myself from cycling? Who should I main ( of the 3 I usually cycle between)?

 

[Nice_FZPSC.42]

I have a problem with consistently keeping to one main. Who I main usually cycles on a weekly basis (because I'll play a character for a couple of days, get bored, and than move on to another person) and I don't know how to fix that. I usually cycle between and , and I occasionally go to and . I can play them solidly, but I want to get really really good at one of them, but I don't know which one. I feel like fits my desired play style the most because I love the fact that she has range, can play solidly both offensively and defensively, a great side B, a great nair, lots of aerial combos, and an amazing counter (I used to play but gave up on him when I realized that is just kind of a better version of him).I most consistently win with and I do enjoy her ( especially Witch Timing people), but she doesn't have a lot of range in my opinion, and her projectile isn't the greatest, but I really appreciate her sass and her bravado. The reason I keep cycling back to is because I feel the most comfortable with him, and I've played him since the beginning (plus I enjoy the character himself) and I feel bad whenever I move on to someone else, so I go back to him. Personally, I love and as characters but I don't think I could main them because I've tried and they just don't fit what I want in a character. SSB4 is the only video game I play, so I have no ties to any other franchises, therefore I only get to know characters through who they are in SSB4. Would it be easier to pick a main and stick to them if I got to know the characters' backstories? How do I stop myself from cycling? Who should I main ( of the 3 I usually cycle between)?

Stick with then. If he draws you back then he's the one.