The king Of Evil On His Knees

[JUGGERNAUT043]

Its been a few demos now and ganon is still shown to be lagging behind amongst the cast(especially in his own weightless)in tournament results and placing's, and yet he still gets minor or no buffs at all per update to help him out, my question is why? he was a high tier in melee for his range, devastating moves, and being thee STRONGEST overall character in the game, now with so many buffs to his other heavy friends he is completely outshined and some would argue replaced, lets look at 3D and ike, both have monstrous range and better to good mobility compared with ganon, in 3D's case u can literally play him like ganon with a touch of fat marth flair( spacing, grab game) and mobility, so with those why play ganon at all besides to look cool? lets move to ike same as with 3D other than some more power here and there and some angles what does ganon have over ike? in reality not a lot except for recovery and that can be argued by many, next lets look at dk and bowser, dk can match ganon with range and outdue him with speed in movement and of attack, he like bowser also has armour on some of his moveset, intangibility on his hands, a useable punch, high damage, a move that covers almost with little effort required 4 out of 4 tech options, and a workable effective combo game, with bowser he is now the the strongest character in the game and I personally see nothing wrong with that hes huge for god sakes, in his arsenal besides power he has great angles on his attacks, a good edgegaurding game, oddly enough a good jump height especially when combined with B.B.J.C, a projectile while not being a great one still great against one who does not at all, a good fast GTFB in fortress along with it also being good as a kill option and in some instances techchase, he also is covered in armour on alot of his moveset to allow him to breakthrough a combo or attack or prevent either from starting, with bowser theyer may not be a lot to say about him cause hes not a complicated character hes basic and affective as tournaments have shown, now to charizard or some have dubbed him "nairzard" hes kinda like the pokemons dk in his moveset and style and while not entirely playing like a heavyweight and being sort of goofy in the since is shown to be effective in a good players hands, to sum it all up ganondorf dragmire needs help, hes weaknesses are more evident and in your face than ever and while all heavies seem to share them with ganon its the most blantant, 3 buffs that come right to mind are better mobility, better speed in attacks and in movement, and power increase maybe not bowsers but right on his coat tails, I know melee purists will argue that cause of his vet status and possible smash law that fat means slow he cannot be touched, but facts are facts ganon is bad in project m and theyers not a good reason for why he is this far along in the demo, I personally hope to see ganon in a much better incarnation in 3.0 and get some real wins under his belt thank you all for reading and listening to my opinion ps: I know some parts of that are long winded I apologize

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

If it makes you feel any better, it looks like Ganondorf will be getting a couple tweaks in 3.0: http://www.twitch.tv/syzygygaming/b/470268333 (Ganon footage at 01:48:00)

I would agree that Ganondorf could use a buff or two to keep up with the rest of the cast, but I believe that Ganondorf is perfectly viable as he is.

1. He has respectable range as it stands now. Just look at f-tilt or any of his aerials.
2. He is still immensely powerful, with devastating damage and knockback on all of his moves.
3. He is one of the most dangerous edge-guarders in the game. In many cases, if a character is off stage, Ganon can find a way to kill them.
4. He can be deceptively quick with the use of L-canceling, SHFFL, wave-landing, and platform dashing.
5. He has Flame Choke, a tool great for countering approaches and for mixing up your own approaches. It also leads into combos if you can tech-chase properly.
6. He has what I would consider the best DACUS in the game, with great distance and power.
7. He definitely doesn't have the best combo game, but he absolutely has a respectable one if you know what you're doing.

That's not to say that Ganondorf doesn't have glaring weaknesses, what with poor mobility overall and a predictable recovery, but it's ultimately up to us to manage these weaknesses and utilize his strengths. This applies to every other player playing any other character as well.

Don't look at other characters in envy and wish Ganondorf had their tools, look at Ganondorf and work with what you have.

 

[JUGGERNAUT043]

Then we will watch him continue to do worse, just as kage has shown, his tools are not good enough to get it done, i dont look at other with envy of theyer tools i look at why ganon like captain falcon, 2 very well known high and high upper tier characters of melee are shown to have a bunch of representation with little to no success in tourneys, even well known melee player kage and darkraine cannot seem to get it done, theyev had 12 years of perfecting theyer game and character working with and around the weaknesses, come and play what ppl say are "better" versions of theyer mains and get beat over and over again doesnt it show to some degree that something isnt right? fox,falco,sheik, peach mains are all doing fine in theyer smashers hands using the same old techniques but after that everything else is theory craft and hear say buy randoms on how "good" or "perfectly viable" and iv even seen "OP" of how ganon and his brother (falcon) are doing, what i wanna know is why ganon mains should work with what they have and deal with it while it seems other charecters, melee vets included, with success or representation or not get something new every update, see luigi for melee vets and ivysaur for newcomers.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

It was never my intent to say that we just have to deal with it. I just feel that we have to be more accountable. I'm entirely for Ganondorf getting some buffs (hell, he might even NEED them). Maybe I just don't see the situation as dire as you do.

I believe Ganondorf is viable, though I will admit that he is probably on the lower end of that spectrum. I still stand by my statement that it is ultimately up to us to work on our skills and show that he's viable.

Maybe I'm just wrong. Regardless, I believe the game is too young to decide that Ganondorf can't compete. Even with 12 years of meta game development, Ganondorf is different enough to still require more perspective/meta game development, not to mention all of the new matchups to figure out.

At the end of the day, we really want the same thing, a better Ganondorf. Part of that will be tweaks/buffs. He's getting some changes in 3.0, which should hopefully help. The other part is simply more development in the meta game and improving ourselves. It's still up to us to become better Ganons ourselves.

 

[Nausicaa]

Maybe I'm just wrong. Regardless, I believe the game is too young to decide that Ganondorf can't compete. Even with 12 years of meta game development, Ganondorf is different enough to still require more perspective/meta game development, not to mention all of the new matchups to figure out.

All of what he said^ but especially this part.
There's a lot Ganon has going for him that hasn't be exploited yet, from his end or the opponent he faces.

Hard reads all day. If anyone can get away with 100% that as a game-plan, it's Ganon.
Intentional Side-B's off-stage, SH Side-B chases, WL Tilts and Grabs, empty jumps and touch-of-death strings. He can deal with DD's and camping and pressure, maybe not EXTREMELY well, but enough that it's too dynamic to tell if he'll be 'fine' when the meta-game for him flushes out.
He's for sure a league better than Melee... and that's all he needed really.

 

[foshio]

Thing is in this game so many characters have such good items for approaches. These screw up ganons spacing game and make him such an approachable target. Lucas, Wolf, Mario, ZSS, ROB, Diddy, Peach, Snake and Falco can just get in on Ganon so easy. Hard reads are great but they are really unreliable for ganon against such spammy characters.