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The Hyrule Saga discussion thread (Ft. Triforce Friday!)

TDK

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
3,717
Location
British Columbia
NNID
GrayCN
I mean, take a look at Bayo's overall placings in tournaments, and you will see an alarming trend:



As you can see, Bayonetta has over double the top 64 placements as the next best character. DOUBLE.

She dwarfs even Brawl MK, who at his absolute peak was just shy of 27%.

If she was ahead by just a slim majority, calling this mob mentality might be justified. But as it stands, hate for her by crowds and social media is deserved--they aren't just hating a playstyle or players, there's a statistical basis to their complaints.

She is obviously choking out the rest of the roster. It's gotten so bad, that ZSS is performing worse than Melee Luigi.

Wait, that doesn't seem right. Hold on.






Sorry, mislabeled my data; fixed.

Anyway, what was I saying?
Melee has a third of the characters that Smash 4 does. If Melee had roughly the same amount of characters as Smash 4 and these averages were scaled down to compensate for having more characters, Fox's average would end up at roughly 9.87%*, or less than Bayonetta.

The only reason Fox's winrate is so high is because the amount of (good) characters in Melee is so low. Additionally, if Smash 4 has a third of its characters (roughly the same size of melee) and the win rates were inflated accordingly, Bayonetta would come out to 30.6%, or higher than Melee Fox.

*these are both just rough estimates from someone who really doesn't get math that well, the point is that arguments like this are really misleading due to roster size playing a big factor in how much usage the best characters get. Bayonetta coming in over a year after the game dropped also probably plays a factor, since by then most everyone had put 100+ hours into a character that wasn't her.
 

Minordeth

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
921
Melee has a third of the characters that Smash 4 does. If Melee had roughly the same amount of characters as Smash 4 and these averages were scaled down to compensate for having more characters, Fox's average would end up at roughly 9.87%*, or less than Bayonetta.

The only reason Fox's winrate is so high is because the amount of (good) characters in Melee is so low. Additionally, if Smash 4 has a third of its characters (roughly the same size of melee) and the win rates were inflated accordingly, Bayonetta would come out to 30.6%, or higher than Melee Fox.

*these are both just rough estimates from someone who really doesn't get math that well, the point is that arguments like this are really misleading due to roster size playing a big factor in how much usage the best characters get. Bayonetta coming in over a year after the game dropped also probably plays a factor, since by then most everyone had put 100+ hours into a character that wasn't her.
Right, but Thinkaman’s argument (I believe) is that measuring dominance in terms of individual wins versus percentage of roster size is misleading in terms of competitive value.

It’s an interesting argument, and I don’t necessarily see an issue, as he already addressed why MK was still unhealthy from his premises.
 

MarioManTAW

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
843
Melee has a third of the characters that Smash 4 does. If Melee had roughly the same amount of characters as Smash 4 and these averages were scaled down to compensate for having more characters, Fox's average would end up at roughly 9.87%*, or less than Bayonetta.

The only reason Fox's winrate is so high is because the amount of (good) characters in Melee is so low. Additionally, if Smash 4 has a third of its characters (roughly the same size of melee) and the win rates were inflated accordingly, Bayonetta would come out to 30.6%, or higher than Melee Fox.

*these are both just rough estimates from someone who really doesn't get math that well, the point is that arguments like this are really misleading due to roster size playing a big factor in how much usage the best characters get. Bayonetta coming in over a year after the game dropped also probably plays a factor, since by then most everyone had put 100+ hours into a character that wasn't her.
I don't think the point was the actual percentages, but rather the comparative gaps between the #1 and #2 characters.
 
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