The hate for certain franchise character reps needs to stop!

[Syrek]

This is a rather touchy subject, one that will surely draw the ire from ignorant and closed minded individuals. However, I feel impressed to share my thoughts and opinions on the matter because the amount of entitlement and bias is out of hand and is unchecked on Smashboards. The subject I am talking about is the controversial opinions over character reps and how some people think that certain series don't deserve more reps than others. Before I begin, I will not engage you in conversation if you come across as hateful, slanderous, spiteful, completely bias or closed minded. I ask for polite, thoughtful and constructive comments on the matter so that we don't turn this thread into another flame war. Thank you! ^_^

So let's jump right into the heart of the matter, shall we? It's become more apparent to me that a loud minority of you think that series like Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, and perhaps even Mario or Pokemon don't deserve the amount of reps they got. This particular thought process is mainly centred around three clone characters, Dark Pit, Lucina and Dr. Mario. Many say that DK, Metroid, Star Fox, Earthbound and F-Zero deserved more character reps over those other series. Now, while I agree that those series need to be represented more, I DO NOT agree with the notion that Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Mario and Pokemon have too many reps and that they don't deserve the numbers they received in characters.

Fire Emblem got 4 reps because Fire Emblem: Awakening reawakened, sorry for the pun , the franchise and saved it essentially from becoming no more. Not to mention, the Fire Emblem series has become more popular in the last year or so than it has in it's entire lifetime, which is incredible! Add in the fact that we got a very unique newcomer in the form of Robin,a fan favourite in the form of Lucina, who is a bonus for Fire Emblem fans like myself, and that the series has over 13 games in it's library, I fail to see how Fire Emblem doesn't deserve the amount of reps it does.

Kid Icarus: Uprising rebooted the franchise thanks to Sakurai and his team, igniting a cult classic game that is praised by many but has yet to be experienced by so many Nintendo fans. The popularity of the series skyrocketed because of that one game and so we natually got Palutena and a bonus character being Dark Pit. Now just because the series only has 3 games, doesn't mean it shouldn't be represented properly. The amount of games a series has DOES NOT have a bearing over if a series deserves more reps or not, although I did mention it for Fire Emblem, I merely did so to emphasize that with over 13 games, it's about time we got more reps from the series.

Mario and Pokemon are no brainers really given how popular each series is and how many amazing characters have spawned from these two franchises.

In regards to the Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario, they were originally alternate costumes but enough differences came out from them and because of that, and the fact that they probably had a little extra time, Sakurai and his team turned them into they're own characters as bonuses for those franchises. They barely took any development time and no characters were replaced because of them, yet for some reason people complain about them. That's a subject for another time but needless to say, if your argument is that clones replaced fan favourites or characters on your wish list, think again cause I can assure you that's simply not the case.

So with all that out of the way, let me share my thoughts on the overall subject and then conclude from there. You DO NOT, and I repeat, DO NOT have the right to say that a certain series doesn't deserve the amount of reps it got just because of your scornful and blatantly obvious bias, not to mention hatred towards a series you either clearly don't care about or didn't like for whatever reason. You DO NOT have the right to tell others that YOUR character or series deserves to have more reps then theirs. You DO NOT have the right to think your opinion is the only one that matters. If you think this way, then I'm sorry, but your ignorance and close minded nature should not participate in such conversations in regards to this matter, nor should you belittle others for feeling differently than you. It's wrong, it's unbecoming of a member of this forum and it's disrespectful to every single fan of that series who enjoys said characters, who was hoping for more characters in they're favourite series.

It sucks that DK, Metroid, Star Fox and F-Zero didn't get as many reps as we would have liked, but unfortunately you simply can't please everyone and it's a fact of life. I miss Wolf and Lucas but am I going to be a tool and talk down to my fellow Smashboard members and tell them that they're series doesn't deserve more reps, that that my series needs more characters and that my opinion is law? HECK NO! That's childish, ignorant, close minded and just plain wrong! I am utterly sickened by the display of some individuals on this website believing that they're opinion is the only one that matter, that they're favourite series is the only one that matters and that other fan bases don't deserve it become of some asinine and arbitrary rules they came up with. If you feel differently on this matter and are upset by your franchise not getting properly represented in your mind, I highly suggest you be respectful to other peoples opinions and don't come across as some entitled man child. Filter your thoughts and please respect the opinions of others who do not think like you.

In closing, I hope that debate over which characters deserves more reps and which do not can end soon. No matter which series you feel deserves reps or not is entirely your opinion and nothing more than that. Don't be malicious towards others who feel differently than you and don't come across as ignorant or bias to prove your point because it will only make you look like a jerk. The 3DS version is out now, we know the final roster and arguing about which series deserves more reps or not is fruitless because it cannot be changed at this point, no matter how much you scream, yell or argue. It's time to let go of the bitterness and move on. And please, please, don't crap on other's who wanted certain characters or series to be represented more. It's hurtful, it's rude and frankly it makes you look bad in front of your peers who want to have healthy conversations on the matter, not debate over your ignorant comments.

Thanks for reading my giant wall of text, hopefully I didn't bore you and I look forward to your comments. Again, please keep your comments bias free and come with an open mind. Thank you! ^_^

 

[Grimnir]

I miss Wolf and Lucas but am I going to be a tool and talk down to my fellow Smashboard members and tell them that they're series doesn't deserve more reps, that that my series needs more characters and that my opinion is law? HECK NO!

You sure? Because to me it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing.

 

[Syrek]

You sure? Because to me it sounds like that's exactly what you're doing.

Pretty sure I never said those series don't deserve more reps, in fact I said they really do need more reps. And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm trying to stop people from being blinded by they're hatred or bias towards a series due to them crapping on people who wanted more KI and FE reps. It's gotten out of hand IMO and it's perfectly fine if you have a different opinion, just don't come across as a tool and say that other peoples favourite series don't deserve more reps because my series didn't get enough. That's unfair to them. Again, I do believe Star Fox, F-Zero, Metroid and DK need more reps but I'm going to say another series doesn't deserve more reps just because I didn't get what I wanted. It sucks yes but there's really nothing we can do about it and being bitter towards other fan bases just seems wrong to me. Sorry if I came across that way, that was not my intention. I'm simply very passionate about this issues and hope to see some respect on all sides. And this is my opinion and you have a right to disagree with me, just be respectful, that's all I ask. ^_^

 

[Grimnir]

Pretty sure I never said those series don't deserve more reps, in fact I said they really do need more reps. And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm trying to stop people from being blinded by they're hatred or bias towards a series due to them crapping on people who wanted more KI and FE reps. It's gotten out of hand IMO and it's perfectly fine if you have a different opinion, just don't come across as a tool and say that other peoples favourite series don't deserve more reps because my series didn't get enough. That's unfair to them. Again, I do believe Star Fox, F-Zero, Metroid and DK need more reps but I'm going to say another series doesn't deserve more reps just because I didn't get what I wanted. It sucks yes but there's really nothing we can do about it and being bitter towards other fan bases just seems wrong to me. Sorry if I came across that way, that was not my intention. I'm simply very passionate about this issues and hope to see some respect on all sides. And this is my opinion and you have a right to disagree with me, just be respectful, that's all I ask. ^_^

What you did was post a long apology on why those series got the reps they did, even calling some "no brainers", then told people that they "do NOT have the right" to think any differently, which you assume if they do is inherently due to bias or ignorance.

I'll give you some advice with your own words:

You DO NOT have the right to think your opinion is the only one that matters. If you think this way, then I'm sorry, but your ignorance and close minded nature should not participate in such conversations in regards to this matter, nor should you belittle others for feeling differently than you.

 

[Syrek]

What you did was post a long apology on why those series got the reps they did, even calling some "no brainers", then told people that they "do NOT have the right" to think any differently, which you assume if they do is inherently due to bias or ignorance.

I'll give you some advice with your own words:

Again, you completely took my words out of context. I never said you can't think differently on the matter but at the end of the day, it's all subjective to each individual as to which series deserves more characters or not, therefore what right do we have to say that other peoples favourite franchises don't deserve more reps or not. I don't, you don't, nobody does. It's all based on opinion and bias. And I was defending those series because they were getting attacked the most and I felt it was wrong. And your right, my opinion is not the only one that matters I know my opinion is not the only one that matters. I never told you or anyone that they need to follow what I said or else, but they don't have the right to attack other fan bases, members of this board or character reps simply because they have a differing opinion than theirs. It's wrong when people do that and I see a lot of it on this website so I felt I needed to speak up and kinda share my thoughts and opinion on the matter. That's what I was trying to say.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This isn't really necessary...

I mean I understand the general sentiment, but the justifications are kinda well...bad.

I mean yeah sure, got in through their own merits but are only in because they're costumes and worked as good last minute characters. Any other justification for the clone trio is going against the developer's words.

But getting in for that reason isn't a bad thing. Just stick to what's actually true and enjoy the "dessert" as he liked to call it. Leave the sentimental, questionable and arguably contradictory logic out of it for the clone trio and I say this while loving while only kinda being disappointed about (wish he had a bit more meat to him).



This kind of thread will only provoke what you're trying to stop. Regardless of intention, it gives a "holier than thou" vibe which I'm sure isn't what you want.

The way to get rid of the tension is time. That's all that's needed. You can't expect everyone to change in a short span of time. So just wait and let the "wounds" heal.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

one that will surely draw the ire from ignorant and closed minded individuals.

Nothing was taken out of context here. You talked down to us and you're being called out on it.

Also, we know Sakurai chose most of the characters for many biased reasons. Not ones we completely agree with. That happens. He also did not choose any "clone" because they made sense. That's Melee. This is Smash 4, where every clone was a costume changed up to a degree(some more than others) and nothing more.

There was supposed to be 6 Mario characters, 3 Fire Emblem characters, and 2 Kid Icarus characters(unless you want to count direct Alts as their own character, which would mean there's a far bigger list of Mario ones alone. Over 10 in fact). Some people just want to see other series get more love, and there's no reason not to believe that. That's a very reasonable view. Some think almost every series should have at least 2 characters. Some don't. Some don't care about partial clones and would gladly remove them for a new playstyle. It's all different, and that's okay.

To put it simply; The tone expressed by you, OP, comes off as extremely egotistical and telling us we're all wrong for caring about other series. Even if you didn't mean it, just the first sentence alone gives off that vibe and many people will react badly to it. In the end, this thread already went downhill due to a very poor choice of words and can't be salvaged. I would suggest either making a new thread, or just keeping this stuff to a blog or an existing topic(there's an Unpopular Opinions thread, but it also requires you to 100% avoid insulting other users). Likewise, I would ask a Moderator/Administrator close this thread before any more flaming beyond a small bit comes up, since to be perfectly honest, it will head that way and it's already too late to stop it.

 

[Reila]

I disagree about and getting in by their own merits, specially who only got in because they needed a new Pokémon rep. Rosaluma had no place in Smash, imo, but that is subject for a different thread and a different time.

Anyways, let people hate what they want. For example, what is so wrong about Donkey Kong fans being angry or disappointed because a franchise which was dead until two years ago (Kid Icarus) getting three reps while Donkey Kong, one of Nintendo most popular franchises, stays with only two reps? It is perfectly fine for they to feel this way. You might think Kid Icarus deserved three reps, but a lot of people think differently (me included). Same goes to Fire Emblem. Four reps IS a bit too much for that franchise.

That said, I particularly don't hate any reps in the game, even though I think some additions were very questionable.

 

[joshl94]

I disagree about and getting in by their own merits, specially who only got in because they needed a new Pokémon rep. Rosaluma had no place in Smash, imo, but that is subject for a different thread and a different time.

Anyways, let people hate what they want. For example, what is so wrong about Donkey Kong fans being angry or disappointed because a franchise which was dead until two years ago (Kid Icarus) getting three reps while Donkey Kong, one of Nintendo most popular franchises, stays with only two reps? It is perfectly fine for they to feel this way. You might think Kid Icarus deserved three reps, but a lot of people think differently (me included). Same goes to Fire Emblem. Four reps IS a bit too much for that franchise.

That said, I particularly don't hate any reps in the game, even though I think some additions were very questionable.

Rosalina got in because of her unique gameplay. You're spot on about Greninja though.
Personally, I feel like DK needs more love. In terms of content, it feels like its shafted which is weird considering it is very relevant.
Kid Icarus getting that third rep makes sense. Dark Pit is one of the easiest clones to make and I don't think that people even wanted him playable as his own character. There's a chance that they had other characters that people actually cared about considered as a clone in his place. Making one of those characters a clone and not a unique character of their own would probably make people more upset.

 

[The Seventh One]

What fan looked at Rose and decided "I wanna play her in the next Smash game"? I understand we'll never have the game that everyone will agree with but come on.

 

[NinjaWaddleDee]

What fan looked at Rose and decided "I wanna play her in the next Smash game"? I understand we'll never have the game that everyone will agree with but come on.

I did. In fact, a bunch of people do. We like playing as her in the Mario games, and she represents an AMAZING game in the franchise (Mario Galaxy). Its the same reason why people want Waluigi or Daisy in. Yes, people actually DO like Rosalina outside of Smash. She is a strong female character in the Mario games (unlike Peach). And she arguably is the natural newcomer for the Mario series because of her very unique moveset. Plus, she adds yet another strong female to the Smash roster.

 

[Aldri]

I think you're arguing against a strawman. Sure, people may joke and laugh about how Dark Pit sucks or mention that they wish that DK/Metroid (Baten Kaitos SAKURAI PLZ) had gotten more reps because KI got 3, but there is simply no epidemic of "hate" for popular franchises where people are continuously "belittling" fans of FE or KI. Talking down to an entire board because of the actions of, at most, one or two people, seems kind of silly. No one is belittling or being rude to others for their way of thinking other than you. And quite frankly, if people want to vent some frustration about roster choices, they do have a right, just as you have a right to openly disagree. If people get out of hand, they'll get modded.

Also, a tip for your future writing endeavors--Setting up an argument with the assertion that the only ones who disagree are ignorant or close-minded is not a great start.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The Rosalina fan requests really started getting big when she was revealed to be playable in 3D World.

Regardless, one thing is for certain- with the power of DLC, the roster will not be final forever. I think I'll focus on that and try to support the likes of Wolf, Lucas, Isaac, Snake and the Ice Climbers.

 

[Tails1000]

I think if the 3 clones stayed as costumes there wouldn't be nearly as much backlash as there currently is. I understand why they were added to the game and know they took very little development time. In all honesty I don't even count them as newcomers even though they technically are.

What I still can't get over is Sakurai not adding a new Zelda rep. Considering Zelda is one of nintendo's biggest franchises (2nd or 3rd biggest, I forget), Its just appalling to see it so unrepresented in the last 2 games... Toon Link being the only newcomer we got in the last 13 years (And again I don't count clones as newcomers). Even if he didn't add a new character at the very least I was expecting ganondorf to get an overhaul, but we didn't even get that. Don't get me wrong... I like a lot of the newcomers we got in the game, but being such a huge Zelda fan I was really miffed by this

And one last thing, If somebody purchased this game they have the right to say whatever they want about it. I agree people shouldn't bash others and voice their opinions respectfully, but we still have the right to voice them even if some people find them controversial.

 

[LordVacation]

How is this any different?
Just let people complain about what they want to complain about; noone is trying to stop You from making threads about stuff like this.

 

[IsmaR]

Postmortem character speculation aside (which has long since ended since the SSB4 Character Discussion was locked), your tone, whether intended or not, really doesn't help your case.

You are neither Sakurai himself, nor speak on the behalf of every single, nor even the majority of fans.

Either way it really does not matter at this point. We could spend a lifetime wondering about what-ifs, let alone theorizing what went through the developers' head as they OK'd these decisions. People can have whatever opinion they want on the matter.