The Goverment's Definition of Torture

[Mr.GAW]

Hey, I have to partake in a 2v2 depate in my AP English III class on Torture, specifically, the Negative side of "The U.S. goverment should implement torture tactics as a means of aquiring information"- where I defend the status quo.

The thing is, obviously with torture its hard to know the status quo because it's such an easy topic for polititions to pick apart.

Anyways, as a moderatly conservative person I would find it very hard to argue that no means of pain-inducing should be legal even in ticking-time bomb situations, so I'm kind of dependent on arguing the definiton of torture as our base for the debate.

Anyways, I was wondering if the 2002 torture memos signed by Jay Bybee were still in effect or whether the Obama Administration had changed these (or even the Bush Administration earlier.)

It's really important that I have a clear understanding of the status-quo for this debate, and I appreciate greatly any help that you can lend me.

Any insight on some points I could argue in the debate are also welcome in this topic, as an avid 24 viewer, I think I'd rather be on the Affirmative side of this debate.

Thanks ahead of time.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

Tourture by the American Dictionary's definition, is 'the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty, with the exception of the previous acts under the bush and obama administration'

And to answer your question about Obama, he's opened up 5 new 'guantanimo bay-like prisions', so when he closes it down, he has somewhere to send them.
That should about answer your question.

Basically, my opinion is as follows.
We are committing unjust torture. We are not torturing allies or enemies, we are torturing suspected terrorists, whom are simply anyone who is assumed to be treasonous. Where villianous 'organized goons' such as the nazi's did it, it was terrible... But now we are doing it, and it is 'patriotic'.

If you'd like sources or examples on the types of torture that is taking place by the american government, I can post such. Likewise, if you'd like to actually hear my full opinion on what I have researched to be true, I can also post such.

 

[slave1]

i never realized putting people in prison was torture. mentally it might be. but i dont read enough on the guantanimo bay things to know what goes on down there.

but you can get more out of a person with psycological warfare than beating them.

 

[Scott!]

Please, please don't base whether torture is a good thing on a fictional TV show's representation of it. In 24, torture works because that's how they write it.

 

[GreenKirby]

Please, please don't base whether torture is a good thing on a fictional TV show's representation of it. In 24, torture works because that's how they write it.

^This.

I can never fathom how some people are stupid enough to use 24 as a reason to justify torture.
By their logic, there are super powered humans or roadrunner and a mouse that can run really fast.

 

[Mr.GAW]

Haha, make no mistake, I don't actually base my opinion of torture on what 24 shows me.

And Ryan Ludovic, I'd love to see both the things you mentioned.

I still need to know the status-quo though, are the 2002 memo's still in effect as to the definition of torture to this day? Would the Obama administration consider things like water-boarding to be torture?

How am I supposed to argue that someone SHOULD NOT be tortured when it is clear they have information that can immediatley save lives that would not be endangered if it weren't for the suspect?

How often do such "24"ish ticking-time bomb situations occur in reality? What do our soldiers currently do in such situations- and is it legal under our government? These are all questions I would love answers to.

 

[Scott!]

I believe Obama has come out and stated that he considers waterboarding torture, and that he will not allow it under his administration. Any further than that I do not know.

 

[thesage]

See the problem in defining torture is that you have to define excruciating pain, especially in a society that you can sue the pants off of somebody for causing "mental duress," since you called them an idiot or spilled a cup of coffee on yourself.

 

[LewsTherin]

"any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a male or female person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions."
UN Definition according to Wikipedia.

 

[Azua]

The government's definition of torture should consistd of someone being locked away alone, with nothing but stuff like this to read.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

i never realized putting people in prison was torture. mentally it might be. but i dont read enough on the guantanimo bay things to know what goes on down there.

but you can get more out of a person with psycological warfare than beating them.

You must'nt read that much at all, then.
And you can force confessions. If i put you through unconventional pain every day and offered you a way out: say you did something you did not, then it would be a matter of time until you have passed away, or made the confession.

I can never fathom how some people are stupid enough to use 24 as a reason to justify torture.

Stuff like that is one of the few things that annoys me these days.

And Ryan Ludovic, I'd love to see both the things you mentioned.

I still need to know the status-quo though, are the 2002 memo's still in effect as to the definition of torture to this day? Would the Obama administration consider things like water-boarding to be torture?

How am I supposed to argue that someone SHOULD NOT be tortured when it is clear they have information that can immediatley save lives that would not be endangered if it weren't for the suspect?

How often do such "24"ish ticking-time bomb situations occur in reality? What do our soldiers currently do in such situations- and is it legal under our government? These are all questions I would love answers to.

Of course, ill have them up as soon as I can. I'm at work right now, and having those things in my history would not be the best--

How am I supposed to argue that someone SHOULD NOT be tortured when it is clear they have information that can immediatley save lives that would not be endangered if it weren't for the suspect?That almost answers itself. You could be innocent. The public does not want the idea that criminals or 'terrorists' can get away with these situations. If no one is busted for the crime, someone has to be convicted or the public's gentle reality where no terrorism goes unpunished will be broken.

I believe Obama has come out and stated that he considers waterboarding torture, and that he will not allow it under his administration. Any further than that I do not know.

I suggest you pick up the obama deception. Or, you google video it. It's 2+ hours of a documentary on everything obama promised he would do, and then lied about. Theres a lot more important information than just besides that, but still.

See the problem in defining torture is that you have to define excruciating pain, especially in a society that you can sue the pants off of somebody for causing "mental duress," since you called them an idiot or spilled a cup of coffee on yourself.

 

[Scott!]

I suggest you pick up the obama deception. Or, you google video it. It's 2+ hours of a documentary on everything obama promised he would do, and then lied about. Theres a lot more important information than just besides that, but still.

Yeah, I've been sort of following all that to some extent. Not everything, but enough to be worried all over again. *Sigh* But what I said is true. Obama has said that stuff. Whether he means it is another story. How many times did Bush say that we didn't torture? Yeah, ok. As far as Obama, we'll just have to see. He's clearly not the savior people voted for, but will he make the country better? Well, if he keeps his word on this stuff, it won't hurt.

 

[Ryan Ludovic]

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How Many Americans Died Because of Bush’s Torture Program?
According to a special operations intelligence officer, the answer is a number north of three thousand–not counting the tens of thousands maimed or seriously wounded, the destruction of the nation’s reputation as a moral leader, or the damage done to our Constitution.


Intelligence Nominee Won't Say if Waterboarding Is Torture
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Several Torture Photographs(Disturbing, click at your own risk)


Abu Ghraib Prisoners 'Included Boy Aged 11'
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I could really go on all day.