The gap levels between players - my version

[B Link]

Beginner
- This player knows how to hit and move around. Thats it. The higher end of this level might know how to get back on the stage as well.

Adv. Techniques - none
Combos - none
"Mindgames" - none
Common Sense - none

Smarter
- This player does not know how any advanced techniques. However, common sense is a common factor between the players of this level. This allows the smarter player to beat people who also do not know advanced techniques because they have common sense on how to win. It's as simple as knowing things like predicting what your opponent is going to do or knowing which attacks work better than others. But still no z-cancelling or whatever. This player can beat a Beginner, and players at the very high end of this level can even beat Mediocre players.

Summary
- No advanced techniques
- Common sense

Adv. Techniques - none
Combos - some
"Mindgames" - some
Common Sense - better than average

Mediocre
- These players have read the "advanced" techniques and have practiced them a few times. This gives them an unfair edge against Smarter players but only an edge. For the most part, mediocre players will use these techniques mindlessly. They know how to do generic combos but tend to imitate what they see in videos too much making them similar to computer players. Smarter players may sometimes beat Mediocre players because Mediocre players do not use enough common sense or mindgames when playing. Instead they focus on using these "amazing techniques" that they think is everything to smash.

Summary
- "thinks" they know advanced techniques
- do them mindlessly
- imitates combos seen in match videos, mostly unsuccessful
- low common sense

Adv. Techniques - somewhat
Combos - somewhat
"Mindgames" - low
Common Sense - low to average

Twilighters
- Named after the phrase "Twilight Zone" which can mean the zone where people are stuck in and cannot escape because an immense amount of maturity is required to move to the next level. They now can do advanced techniques fluently but not perfectly. Combos are less imitated and players at this level can actually think on their own. Can DI. They now have better common sense which allows them to decimate any Mediocre player. Because they have advanced techniques as well they can also beat Smarter players easily. What's missing from these players is that they do not know how to get to a higher level of playing. They think that the only thing that seperates them from the next level is natural talent or some sort of magic. But there isn't. The majority of competent players are here.

Summary
- can do advanced techniques properly including DI (slightly better than average)
- combos are less generic, knows what will work
- stuck in this level because they dont know how to improve

Adv. Techniques - better than average
Combos - better than average
"Mindgames" - better than average
Common Sense - better than average

Advanced
- When you get to this level, you don't need to read this. You know how to win at smash. If noobs want to complicate things they can. But the truth is you just need to know what works and what doesn't. The players in this level know what works. It's that simple, but that hard to get to.

Adv. Techniques - high
Combos - high
"Mindgames" - high
Common Sense - better than average

Best
- This level is now where you cannot just get to if you know what works. It requires more skill through practice and better "mindgames" and common sense. You have to be extremely consistent and fluent at every aspect of smash. You still have to know what works and do it, but now at the highest level. The only thing that matters is winning (more specifically on console) You can't be here if you lose to someone in Advanced or Twilight. You only play with the Best. If you lose to anything lower, you're not here yet.

Adv. Techniques - best
Combos - best
"Mindgames" - best
Common Sense - best

------------------------

Complete Gap Level List

Beginner
---------------
Smarter
Mediocre (can sometimes lose to "Smarter" players)
---------------
Twilighter
---------------
Advanced
Best

Note: The dividers "-----" mean that there is a huge gap between these levels in terms of skill.

------------------------

Stocks

Beginner vs Smarter
0 - 4/5

~~~~

Smarter vs Mediocre
0 - 1/2
or (if player is at the high end of "smarter")
3/2/1 - 0

Smarter vs Twilighter
0 - 3/4

~~~~

Mediocre vs Twilighter
0 - 3/4

Mediocre vs Advanced
0 - 4/5

~~~~

Twilighter vs Advanced
0 - 3/4

Twilighter vs Best
0 - 4/5

~~~~

Advanced vs Best
0 - 3/4

------------------------

FAQ

1. I don't want to read through a block of text.
Answer: There are summaries for the long ones. Each section is only like 4-5 sentences though.

2. Why did you make a new one when theres already an old one??
Answer: This one's better in a way and different if you pay attention. I can elaborate but I shouldn't have to.

3. I belong in _______
Answer: That's just your opinion. If you've played someone better than you then their opinion is worth more than yours. So don't argue with them if they say something. Of course if they're not better than you...

4. So what're you in B Link?
I would definitely say twilighter.

------------------------

News

Sept. 10 - Added stocks section. Rephrased some sections. Made post "prettier"

------------------------

Anyway if you're bored you can kill some time at the very least...I know I did.

Thoughts, opinions...

 

[NixxxoN]

Good list. Is it for for emulator playing or for the N64?
I think im in Twilight, and I agree about the natural talent thing.

 

[Daedatheus]

A very well-done list, because I was once the "Mediocre" losing to a "Smarter". Then I realized knowing a few advanced techs isn't nearly as important as other factors.

I'm now in Twilighter, however I do know that I can get better and I think I know how, so that's the one difference.

I would suggest that Advanced and Best types be fleshed out in more detail. The other "levels" of smash player explained exactly what made these levels work, and while it's harder to categorize these factors at higher levels, it would be more consistent, as well as help those stuck at certain levels understand where they should be heading! In this respect, I think that for Advanced and Best, you should factor in raw hours of EXPERIENCE, which alongside practice, includes how many different opponents the player has faced, expanding their knowledge of other's tactics, how to use them, how to counter them, and how to predict and punish them.

The "natural talent" part is just practice and experience in my opinion. Some of us just don't make the same commitment to these two aspects of our game that the top players do, and that's why they're at the top. How many of us can say we've traveled to Japan to play Smash, or have trained our DJC-ing to nearly TAS speed?

Also, dexterity might be mentioned. For example, I play every now and then with a friend who can't mash the buttons nearly as fast as I can, this comes from teaching myself to play piano and practicing trills and whatnot. (not that button mashing really matters in this game.) Playing with a relaxed hand at high speeds on your controller, like a concert pianist on a piano, is a skill in itself that transfers to things outside of smash, and is something not often thought about, muscle memory aside.

 

[Zantetsu]

This thread is going to cause flaming. There is no doubt about it.

"Person 1: I'm on the best level!
Person 2: No you're not.
* Fight*"

inb4 MATTS!

 

[NixxxoN]

Threads don't cause flaming, forumers do. Its their fauilt if they cannot keep a serious discussion 'bout this without flaming.
*hopes no idiot starts flaming*

 

[Surri-Sama]

ive seen this stuff allready..btu explaind in better detail...cant remember who did it though...i was a 5.2 :D

(Post 1000...wow it sucked >_<)

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

im porobably twlighter
im only good in yoshi dittos but overall twlighter

 

[TehBo49]

I'm not sure where I'd fall. I'd like to say Advanced, but that may be a little optimistic. Just wondering, who would you rank as Best?

 

[Surri-Sama]

best...SuperBoom...JamieHR...Dark Link -X-...Johnny....maybe isai on a good day

 

[Wenbobular]

best...SuperBoom...JamieHR...Dark Link -X-...Johnny....maybe isai on a bad day

Fixed ~_~
Guess I'm a twilighter should work some more on my combos x)
I want something to record on my TV, Winston and I have flashes of better smash that deserve to be on camera ~_~

 

[B Link]

best...SuperBoom...JamieHR...Dark Link -X-...Johnny....maybe isai on a good day

i hate it when people say those old names (darklink, johnny), they haven't played in so long, how can you rank them at all

they were definitely up there back then, but we have no clue now

 

[Surri-Sama]

i played Dark Link last night and it was ****ing awesome :D

and imo, regardless of how they play now, they where ranked best in their time, i think its only fair to mention them :o

 

[Superstar]

I don't have to mention that it is set in stone because it's obvious and it's stupid people who argue that.

Vast majority [of online in SWF] are going to be closest to Twilight, myself included. Although, I can't DI yet. I need to fight good players who can actually combo in order to practice it. I got some good practice there versus I Am Not Pro, to prevent 0-death I had to attempt to DI several times. Worked against Jiggs, not against Falcon.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I think you should have talked about the ability to see the combos in one of these sections...

what i mean is at a certine level of play you should be able to see a few combo..paths(?) that can be used in any situation you may be in , before they actually happen

 

[AlanCiTuAndPope20]

Very nice stuff.

 

[NixxxoN]

And what about talking about multi-character skillz?
A smasher is more skilled if he does well and has most of techniques with every character rather than being very good in only one char.

 

[Surri-Sama]

And what about talking about multi-character skillz?
A smasher is more skilled if he does well and has most of techniques with every character rather than being very good in only one char.

this goes without saying i think.

 

[AlexBarry]

thanks for another worthless thread : /

 

[valoem]

have you seen this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=50864

also does nintendo still sell 64 controllers

 

[B Link]

thanks for another worthless thread : /

coming from someone without much/any reputation and no arguments to even backup his post

have you seen this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=50864

also does nintendo still sell 64 controllers

coming from someone who doesn't read (why did i even make a faq, they dont work)

i played Dark Link last night and it was ****ing awesome :D

i want to play him >_<

I think you should have talked about the ability to see the combos in one of these sections...

what i mean is at a certine level of play you should be able to see a few combo..paths(?) that can be used in any situation you may be in , before they actually happen

i dont really understand what you're saying

if you're talking about when you're in a combo and predicting what your opponent is going to next and getting out of it - then its just called DI

if you're talking about knowing how to approach the opponent then it's just called approaching, and should have been implied when I talk about mindgames in the first post

 

[Zantetsu]

I like valoems list way better =\

 

[NixxxoN]

this goes without saying i think.

Well, eveybody starts with only 1 character, and usually gets good and surpasses some skill levels with that character.
I think there should be another level, between Twilighter and Advanced... "Knows and uses very well all the characters" This is very important to be really good as you may know.

 

[B Link]

I like valoems list way better =\

problems with his list:

1. it's 3 years old
2. there are like 10 levels below knowing how to z-cancel - the majority of players know advanced techniques now...
3. it's a learning curve which elaborates on the specific stages that one goes through in their smash life. mine just categorizes players based on skill. not on every specific stage of getting better.

its basically not the kind of list i made if you pay attention

 

[Zantetsu]

problems with his list:

1. it's 3 years old
2. there are like 10 levels below knowing how to z-cancel - the majority of players know advanced techniques now...
3. it's a learning curve which elaborates on the specific stages that one goes through in their smash life. mine just categorizes players based on skill. not on every specific stage of getting better.

its basically not the kind of list i made if you pay attention

There is way more people who don't z cancel then those who do. Kaillera just isn't the place where casuals go.

Also, it easily looks like you tried to do what he did. Sorry for having an opinion >_>

 

[Surri-Sama]

there is a huge gap between people simply when it comes to Z cancling %...so i think thiese kinda things are irrelivent anyways...well for the most part

 

[B Link]

There is way more people who don't z cancel then those who do. Kaillera just isn't the place where casuals go.

you honestly think I don't know that? why would I go into depth with those people in this kind of a list

Also, it easily looks like you tried to do what he did. Sorry for having an opinion >_>

opinion? it just sounds like you're sucking valoem's **** imo...(sorry to put it in such harsh terms) you've replied to some of my other posts in the same way

and by the way...i joined swf like a few months ago, that post is 3 years old, ive only just seen it now, and ive already stated the differences between the lists after reading his. they are similar but how could i copy a list i've never seen before

 

[Zantetsu]

you honestly think I don't know that? why would I go into depth with those people in this kind of a list

Uhh... Why wouldn't you? If you weren't going to bother including every type of level, you should have titled this "The gap levels between players who know how to play - my version"

Vaolems list may be a lot of steps away from L canceling but it is more accurate considering every single ssb64 player there is. Majority of smashers are casuals. Remember?

opinion? it just sounds like you're sucking valoem's **** imo...(sorry to put it in such harsh terms) you've replied to some of my other posts in the same way

I don't even know Valoem. I've never spoke to him anywhere other then this forum which we don't even talk to each other on. So I don't understand why you would think I was sucking his **** when it's a guy I don't even know >_>

Also, I'd like some examples of some posts that I've replied to yours in this way. I don't even know you and I can only remember one thread I posted in, which was your tournament thread, and all I did was suggesting some rule changes.

It's obvious you are just trying to start a flame war with all of these insulting replies you've been giving me in this thread. I don't know what I've done to you but I think it's about time you grow up and quit bawwing

and by the way...i joined swf like a few months ago, that post is 3 years old,

And in my opinion, it still beats your list. But I'm sure your going to reply to this and say I'm sucking Valoems **** more, right?

ive only just seen it now, and ive already stated the differences between the lists after reading his. they are similar but how could i copy a list i've never seen before

I find it strange how you would add "My Version" at the end of the topic. Even though it would make sense and avoid people complaining about your list, I still find it strange. I still believe you saw Valoems before you made this. But then again, I can believe what I want, can't I? Oh wait, that would mean I'm sucking up, wouldn't it? Haha.

 

[Daedatheus]

What the hell is with this arguing? Have you even bothered at looking at your own posts, guys?
Seriously, this is ********

 

[Surri-Sama]

What the hell is with this arguing? Have you even bothered at looking at your own posts, guys?
Seriously, this is ********

this isn't ********

this is SWF!!!!!+9000

anyways, B-Link, instead of taking BHL's comments negatively, why don't you just ADD to your list? :o

 

[B Link]

im not going to reply to bhlmro's post. he basically just said the same stupid thing over again. -_-

the reason im taking his comments "negatively" is because they don't make sense. and no i wont add a section on people who dont know how to play. i already explained why in posts before this.

 

[Surri-Sama]

im not going to reply to bhlmro's post. he basically just said the same stupid thing over again. -_-

the reason im taking his comments "negatively" is because they don't make sense. and no i wont add a section on people who dont know how to play. i already explained why in posts before this.

actually all you said was "why would i include them" ..which really isnt an answer >_<

 

[B Link]

the reason should've been implied, do i have to explain everything

 

[Surri-Sama]

the reason should've been implied, do i have to explain everything

lol yes you do when you specifically dont say something, you probably should say it on SWF.

i assume the reason would be that people...people on that level are either irreverent or grow out of it to quickly to really need a guild placement.

But that's just mean!

xP

 

[AlexBarry]

lol yes you do when you specifically dont say something, you probably should say it on SWF.

i assume the reason would be that people...people on that level are either irreverent or grow out of it to quickly to really need a guild placement.

But that's just mean!

xP

You are probably the dumbest person on this entire site.

 

[Surri-Sama]

You are probably the dumbest person on this entire site.

definitely, but if that's so, you must be the smartest eh?!

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

MATTS! is the most smartest

 

[killa k]

and there it goes.

 

[valoem]

coming from someone who doesn't read (why did i even make a faq, they dont work)

What the fvck? I didnt flame you just wondered if you read my list. ****nn

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I like this list better. The twilighter category is why. There needed to be a level under ''Level 5 (Part 1) [The mastering level]:''

Because by Valoems list, Im at level 5 working towards top level. In Blinks list I'm at level 4 out of 6 levels. So thats why I like this one better.

You could go more into detail and refine the list Blink but so far its the best of its kind IMO.

 

[marthmaster04]

I've found play style can close skill gaps a lot quicker than some combos in smash 64 >.> Might wanna factor that in.