Smash 3DS The Future of SSB3DS

[Substitution]

Title.
Over the past few days, Capps and I had a conversation referring to SSB3DS. And we'd like to know what you'd think of the ideas we thought could up the community.

• A good idea in terms of recording footage could be as simple as a camcorder (especially for smaller tournaments), or higher-quality, but more expensive like capture cards.

• One problem we'll face is "pot fillers" (people coming in thinking they'll get nothing) and making them feel that their time isn't wasted. A good option might be considering the "Swiss System". With the "Round Robin" being reserved for smaller groups.

• Another idea would be "hype builders", A special event every now and then to build hype. One idea Capps had was called "Fight Clubs". How it works is one guy fights against numerous challengers to keep his position. Kinda like "King of the Hill" from Injustice. It worked really well for PSABR, and it could work here.

• Setting ourselves apart will be difficult, having to compete with not only the three before us, but the Wii U as well. So a good idea might be considering a more "transitional approach". Or, allowing different kinds of rulesets for tournaments. Such as being at bit more loose with items or stages, or being more strict, like only having neutral stages, to give more variety for players. Competitively and casually.

• One other problem may be getting known as a major Smash community, so an idea was starting small, beginning with local tournaments and building up from there. Though if we get online communities and a player search system, we might be able to make tournaments online. Making progress more efficient.

Remember: These are still just ideas, which is why we wanted your opinion.

Here's the conversation for those who want to see it...
[COLLAPSE="The Conversation"]

So, let's start with a few questions:
How are we gonna be able to stream?
How exactly can we make tournaments fast and efficient? Especially since we're gonna have to deal with loading?
How can we make this big?
And how can we prove that we can set ourselves apart from the Wii U?

Streaming has cheap options and expensive options depending.

For our bigger/better events having someone with the 3DS that is set up to stream would be nice, these cost like 431 dollars so let's be honest, there wont be too many around, but we can manage to have a few around for sure (I'm buying one!)

Cheaper options can seriously range from a shoe box modified to have a webcam mounted in it with proper lighting setting. The quality isn't 1080p obviously, but I've seen several 3Ds related streams where this can work good enough, at least the matches would be watchable and an option like that would work better for small groups.

Fast an efficient feels to me like we use Swiss brackets, MTG can manage tournaments with hundred upon hundreds with it and they don't go too long, it should work for any large event we have. The size of the event does really matter though, if you have very small groups things like Round Robin might be better.

The hardest part of this is making it so players who know they cannot get high enough to win or make a cut to a double elim bracket not just quitting or giving up. Solutions to this are hard, but I think we should consider taking an idea from competitive Go where they have several brackets for different levels of players where people can get prizes. This gives players who are there to improve or at mid level a chance at some cash (not as much as the true first place winners, but still) and gives them the fight to keep going. And players working their way up through those rankings will give them good stepping stones and goals to see themselves growing as players.

Hopefully this helps with the huge problem smash has now of "pot fillers" (let's face it, tons of people go there knowing they'll never win and more then likely they'll get nothing) feeling like their time is worth it coming. Plus, Swiss give people more matches which is more value for their money, especially if they're playing to get better. I know I've talked a LOT about Swiss in another thread, but I'm still doing research to try and find thee best method in terms of fairness. Hopefully I can find us the best so we can avoid as much of the problems Swiss has as possible (plus Pokemon players are used to Swiss and they already own a 3DS more then likely, this wll be comfortable for a TON of nintendo fans who already compete in a lot of games actually now that I think about it)

Us providing more bang for players buck might help us get big for sure, but I can think of a few other things. First, we're going to have to play online matches at events anyways more then likely yes? Remind players that this means any event online or practicing online is actually as good as in person tournaments. No console fighting game has EVER been able to boast this fact, in our world online can seriously help you get better and gauge your skill before you travel to some big event.

With that advantage, online events are not a bad idea. In my time with PSAS (thankfully now passed) we tried to do Fight Clubs one day a week. Players would fight to keep their place as others came forward as challengers. People in the crowd got to see hype matches as players tried to not lose, tons of character variety, and it was fun for the crowd to really get into things. If we can come up with things like this and schedule them properly we'll have serious hype builders all the time.

We also have to try and organize. There will definitely be less people trying to fight for this, so anyone we can find we need to bring into the fold and train people to learn how to run the best events so that people can see we have the highest quality TOs.

Setting ourselves apart is interesting. A lot of it can depend on the game itself and who buys it. Right now, there is a large chance we'll have a more casual fanbase as the 3DS seems to attract lighter gamers. (This isn't entirely true, but there are truths there.) This means that we're going to have even more people then ever before coming in who will have never encountered competitive smash and will be turned off by a lot of the mentality that usually is present here. What this means is that we should consider the possibility of being a "Transitional" smash game, the game that helps get players into hardcore competition and allows those who don't want to dive in too deep or prefer more variety to keep playing here. This could be anything from using item standard play to not get rid of all items (something a lot of new people complain about) without adding too much randomness, to just having a larger stagelist (not just 3 stages, something more along MLG rules which had TONS of people show up unsurprisingly) as the "not items, fox only, final destination" kind of thing isn't everyone's cup of tea.

If we can target ourselves at a market that isn't getting a product it likes now, we can take that market and become big while also helping transition players to other competition, how cool will it be to not only be big but to be a driving force of building the entire smash community? It'll be hard to sweep us under the rug when we're not only helping ourselves, we're helping them as well. And doing so may even help the chance of 3DS vs Wii U being the new Melee vs Brawl, work together from the beginning at least a little to keep a good relationship.

Well, to be fair. The Wii was pretty much built for casual audiences. But look what happened.

But I think another thing is, we have to change too. I think the one of the major problem is that, since we've already been though this "song and dance" since Melee, we've started to develop a set of rules. Sure, we have something to work with in future iterations, and there's a good reason why we've used it for so long. But it's come to the point where we haven't experimented anymore. And anybody that says otherwise will be "happily" shown why "their idea sucks". Like with items for example.

It's true about the wii, I just have a feeling we'll be getting a huge new sweep of players who've never really been able to do competitive smash because they chose handhelds over console. I may be wring, but being different either way would help us.

So let's try some changes, I'm not the biggest items guys,but I've done ISP and know it has an audience. More stages, more variety, more viewers, I think it's ripe for the taking and we gotta take it.

The only question is, are the others going to accept this? It's not exactly easy to put "items" and "competitive play" united in one sentence without someone yelling...

I have no idea. Heck, we may find even these new people flooding in might object. It's an idea though, and if it turns out to be popular it will be hard to argue with it. The people who don't like it can not play it fair and simple. As long as there is a large audience, we take it. If there isn't, we can always change.

Popularity doesn't mean anything if people don't like it. Project M is immensely popular, yet people still debate over whether it's good or not...

It's true, however it's immense popularity still means people play it right? Otherwise it would just be questioned like things tend to be now. We just gotta reach that point, and if we can't we can adapt right? At least I hope so.

What we need first is to be known, we need to have an existence before we can build it up. Let's say start with locals, then regionals, then, nationals, Finally, Apex...
Though if online is lag-free and there's communities (think MK7), we might be able to do something with that...

Well we have from when the game comes out to build a presense, we gotta just jump on it early when the hype is there and ride the train!

But here's what I'm trying to say, we not just gonna go from day 1 to EVO. Heck, the majority of us are most likely gonna start by attempting to unlock the entire roster. I know I have to (as two of the three characters I'm planning on maining are probably gonna be unlockable). We need to build up, we don't have much else. Thankfully, it not like this is some obscure game, people are gonna pick it up. Heck who knows, the Wii U isn't doing so hot right now, so we might end up being the bigger of the two. But that's just me using baseless assumptions.

But, like I said, if online communities come around, we might get somewhere quicker. If the cards fall in the right place, we could make tournaments using online mode. But we'll need two things, lag-free online. And a system to choose your opponents (think Street Fighter IV, only with community members).

That clarified it thank you

It's true, in all honesty something as good as PSAS (I shudder to compliment it but... gotta be fair) match making which was streamlined and nice for setting up matches for online events would be awesome. A lot of it does depend on the game it's true.

And it's true if online is good we'll do amazing things. If it turns out to be good, we need to jump on fast and start hosting quick. If we're the standard from the beginning it'll help us a LOT.

[/COLLAPSE]
And for those curious about the Swiss System, here's what we mean:
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-possibility-of-going-swiss.338078/http://smashboards.com/members/capps.216453/

 

[SmasherP83]

Alright people. I already read this way before this was posted. I'm special deal with it ;D, Let's get to talking~

 

[PWN3]

It should be obvious (considering basically all of you wouldn't even have known I existed prior to this post) that I'm -- by most definitions -- a noob. Sure, I've followed this series since the beginning at about 4 years old, but that doesn't make me any less green to competitive Smash and the actual community as a whole. Never played any of the games at any sort of 'level' outside of messing about with friends. Why does any of that matter? Well, partly because I love talking about myself, and partly that I finally have a desire to get good at these games.

I plan on picking up both versions, and while I'm sure the Wii U version will become my weapon of choice, I won't ignore the other, and I don't want it to end up living in the shadow of its HD brother. Seeing the 3DS version and community act with the intention of a gateway to the competitive scene would be a dream come true to absolute newcomers such as myself, and knowing that others like me may all be working towards the same goal is a comforting idea.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. Kind of lost where I was going with that, and really don't have much to offer outside of what's there, so I'll leave it at this.

 

[SmasherP83]

It should be obvious (considering basically all of you wouldn't even have known I existed prior to this post) that I'm -- by most definitions -- a noob. Sure, I've followed this series since the beginning at about 4 years old, but that doesn't make me any less green to competitive Smash and the actual community as a whole. Never played any of the games at any sort of 'level' outside of messing about with friends. Why does any of that matter? Well, partly because I love talking about myself, and partly that I finally have a desire to get good at these games.

I plan on picking up both versions, and while I'm sure the Wii U version will become my weapon of choice, I won't ignore the other, and I don't want it to end up living in the shadow of its HD brother. Seeing the 3DS version and community act with the intention of a gateway to the competitive scene would be a dream come true to absolute newcomers such as myself, and knowing that others like me may all be working towards the same goal is a comforting idea.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. Kind of lost where I was going with that, and really don't have much to offer outside of what's there, so I'll leave it at this.

Great to hear! (And it's about time someone said something on this thread :l) If you always wanna support the 3DS Competitive Scene then we actually have a social group about it but I'll check with the moderator if you wanna join or not.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Seeing the 3DS version and community act with the intention of a gateway to the competitive scene would be a dream come true to absolute newcomers such as myself, and knowing that others like me may all be working towards the same goal is a comforting idea.

This is why I love the idea of doing this. It separates the 3DS scene making it different from the Wii U and gives it a VERY legitimate reason to be competitive by itself. I hope this turns out to work so you newer players can enjoy it!

 

[PWN3]

Great to hear! (And it's about time someone said something on this thread :l) If you always wanna support the 3DS Competitive Scene then we actually have a social group about it but I'll check with the moderator if you wanna join or not.

I'd love to join the social group! Do I need to wait for permission, or am I able to simply join it?

This is why I love the idea of doing this. It separates the 3DS scene making it different from the Wii U and gives it a VERY legitimate reason to be competitive by itself. I hope this turns out to work so you newer players can enjoy it!

Mentioned it in the part that you quoted, but there really is something comforting (and kind of adorable, lol) about making use of the impending split in the communities to help people with little-to-no experience. The idea that this could potentially create an entire new 'league' of competitive Smashers is also really cool, and knowing that they would have come from a community that helped train them from the beginning is insanely awesome to think about... Or maybe I'm just too optimistic.

 

[SmasherP83]

I'd love to join the social group! Do I need to wait for permission, or am I able to simply join it?


Mentioned it in the part that you quoted, but there really is something comforting (and kind of adorable, lol) about making use of the impending split in the communities to help people with little-to-no experience. The idea that this could potentially create an entire new 'league' of competitive Smashers is also really cool, and knowing that they would have come from a community that helped train them from the beginning is insanely awesome to think about... Or maybe I'm just too optimistic.

Ummm Capps should send you a invite I'm not the mod of the social group I'm simply a member (**** me) But he should send ya a invite. I'm kinda of a....errrrrr........loyal b!$%..........Team or Spirit builder.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I'd love to join the social group! Do I need to wait for permission, or am I able to simply join it?

You have been invited

Mentioned it in the part that you quoted, but there really is something comforting (and kind of adorable, lol) about making use of the impending split in the communities to help people with little-to-no experience. The idea that this could potentially create an entire new 'league' of competitive Smashers is also really cool, and knowing that they would have come from a community that helped train them from the beginning is insanely awesome to think about... Or maybe I'm just too optimistic.

No! You are a perfect level of optimistic! I've really thought hard on this one, and this is now my hopeful dream for Smash 3DS. I hope everyone else feels on board with it and it's not forcing things on people, it's just such a great opportunity I don't want to waste it!

 

[SmasherP83]

You have been invited



No! You are a perfect level of optimistic! I've really thought hard on this one, and this is now my hopeful dream for Smash 3DS. I hope everyone else feels on board with it and it's not forcing things on people, it's just such a great opportunity I don't want to waste it!

You hear that guys and gals. It's his hopeful dream that shouldn't be wasted. And it's also my dream, So let's do the best we can!

 

[Pazzo.]

I like the idea of the "King of the Hill".... Sounds like fun...

 

[Substitution]

You hear that guys and gals. It's his hopeful dream that shouldn't be wasted. And it's also my dream, So let's do the best we can!

This.

 

[SmashChu]

King of the Hill is an interesting idea.

The problem is the that the only difference between the games is the stages, but the community wants to fight on very basic stages. So the WiiU version for tournaments makes more sense. The 3DS could carve out it's own group if players were more open.

 

[LiteralGrill]

The 3DS could carve out it's own group if players were more open.

That's seriously what I'd like to see happen, it's my hope as of now to just not ban anything until it's somehow proven broken. This could mean items and more stages. I really feel like that will be what makes the 3DS shine, giving players another experience and helping new players into the game.

 

[SmashChu]

That's seriously what I'd like to see happen, it's my hope as of now to just not ban anything until it's somehow proven broken. This could mean items and more stages. I really feel like that will be what makes the 3DS shine, giving players another experience and helping new players into the game.

I'd agree. It seems like the 3DS stages are far more dynamic in how they function. I think people would be more open if the 3DS game's events were more open, even if the Wii U's ones weren't. It would at least give players an alternative.

 

[negativeX]

That's seriously what I'd like to see happen, it's my hope as of now to just not ban anything until it's somehow proven broken. This could mean items and more stages. I really feel like that will be what makes the 3DS shine, giving players another experience and helping new players into the game.

Could I join? How do I PM people? Is it just starting a conversation?

 

[Substitution]

Could I join? How do I PM people? Is it just starting a conversation?

The community? Sure! The more the merrier is what I say!