The flaw of transformation in Melee and how it affects Brawl

[Topaz989]

I'm sure there is alot of people out there who want Sheik back. It would be quite silly to not include him due to him being a unique character. Perhaps Sakurai realizes that transforming into Sheik became too easy. Maybe to him, he saw the two as ways of complimenting each other and people would switch throughout the match to use her/him effectively. However, most people just stuck with one, and in most cases, it was Sheik. Sakurai loves chaos in the game, and it sounds all too stable to just press up b at the beginning of level to go from bottom tier to top before a match starts.

I personally think he wants to change this. Look at Pokemon trainer. He KNOWS people want to just stick with Charizard but he won't let them and thus the Stanima meter.

Then there is Samus, again, if you want her Zero Suit, you can't change at will. But if you want her suit, again, you can't just change back because you are taking a beating and want that extra protection.

Let's say, Sheik does come back as a transformation. However, to me, I think he's going to alter it where Sheik can't be in the picture the whole time, battle after battle. One logical thing is that Sheik becomes a spell but it only lasts maybe 30 seconds and then, oops she switches back and you have wait a certain duration before you can use it again (as in, Poketrainer's stanima meter and how you must rest your Pokemon)

Or she could play off like Samus and Sheik is available after Final Smash. But hey, if you have a tourney with no items, then Sheik and ZSS are pretty much screwed.

I don't think Sheik will be "nerfed". I do think he will make it alot tougher to bring him out.

Again, there's not much doubt that he will come back, the question is, how?

 

[:034:]

I'm very much inclined to believe that, especially after the Ice Climbers getting their confirmation. I'm willing to believe anything now.

...Well, not really anything, but you know what I mean. XD

 

[Arteen]

I think that the transformation will work in Brawl as it did in Melee, but this time Zelda and Sheik wii be balanced in such a way that it is advantageous to switch between them a few times throughout the battle.

 

[2007]

so bascially:
Zelda=buffed
Sheik=nerfed

 

[soaz]

Zelda doesnt turn into a boy when she changes clothes-_-(but i might just have misunderstood you).

 

[Aaryk]

Why not just make sheik a normal, stand-alone character? Since everybody seems to only use one or the other, it would make sense if Sakurai split them and gave them each and extra down special.

Down-B: Sheik whips out the lyre and plays us a little Bolero of Fire, eh?

 

[soaz]

And what would that do,just playing an instrument isnt gonna hurt somebody unless you play really bad

 

[Aaryk]

And what would that do,just playing an instrument isnt gonna hurt somebody unless you play really bad

That was a joke. Not a very good one either.
Given that people are clamoring for a roster list with 35+ characters, I would think that Sakurai needs all the options he can get.

 

[PyrasTerran]

I also agree that it would be best for Shiek to be her own character. That way more attention can be paid to evening out Zelda and shaving down Shiek simultaneously.

 

[Circus]

And what would that do,just playing an instrument isnt gonna hurt somebody unless you play really bad

Yeah, it would be impossible to have a music related attack.

Good thing Jigglypuff never used Sing. And that Donkey Kong doesn't use his bongos as a Final Smash.

At Topaz: The transformation is Zelda's down B, not up. And instead of pressing down B at the beginning of the match, it's much easier and faster to just hold A when the match starts (starts you off as Sheik that way).

Also, I don't want to use Charizard. He looks slow and useless to me. I don't understand why so many people are considering him PT's best pokemon so far?

I like that idea you had about Sheik being a temporary "spell" (though I'd prefer to just remove Sheik from Zelda's moveset completely).

 

[Masque]

I don't think Sheik will be "nerfed". I do think he will make it alot tougher to bring him out.

Again, there's not much doubt that he will come back, the question is, how?

I think that you are only deluding yourself. There is no way that Sheik, in her* current form, could make for a fair Brawl experience. Zelda was never / rarely used for two reasons: 1) she wasn't that good , and likewise 2) Sheik was vastly superior. It wouldn't make much sense to "balance" the game by leaving Sheik as-is. She MUST be nerfed in some way if she is going to return. She was originally designed--or intended to be designed, anyway--to be a quick comboer that lacked the ability to finish an opponent. Little did they know that fun tools like her FAir were anything but "fair". Sheik is top-tier for a reason, and if Sakurai truly wants to make Brawl a more balanced experience, he must nerf Sheik in some way; by the same token, Zelda must be improved in some way. He has already confirmed that she will move slowly (as before), so it will be interesting to see how he improves her.

Why not just make sheik a normal, stand-alone character? Since everybody seems to only use one or the other, it would make sense if Sakurai split them and gave them each and extra down special.

Down-B: Sheik whips out the lyre and plays us a little Bolero of Fire, eh?

Agreed. The two need to be separate. I like the idea of the Bolero of Fire; perhaps it could release a "shockwave" of fire that emanates from Sheik in the way that Pikachu's Thunder Jolt travels along a platform, slowly dissipating as it travels.

*I refer to Sheik as "her" because Sheik is Zelda; however, Sheik is a male character--a role that Zelda plays to disguise her true identity. So either pronoun is acceptable in my view.

 

[chlor0form]

Let's promote the use of the Stamina idea.

If not, I agree with 2007.

 

[Ogre_Deity_Link]

*hiss!*

Evil, evil Shiek. I'd be happy if they got rid of that flash in the pan character all together...

 

[soaz]

Yeah, it would be impossible to have a music related attack.

Good thing Jigglypuff never used Sing. And that Donkey Kong doesn't use his bongos as a Final Smash.

At Topaz: The transformation is Zelda's down B, not up. And instead of pressing down B at the beginning of the match, it's much easier and faster to just hold A when the match starts (starts you off as Sheik that way).

Also, I don't want to use Charizard. He looks slow and useless to me. I don't understand why so many people are considering him PT's best pokemon so far?

I like that idea you had about Sheik being a temporary "spell" (though I'd prefer to just remove Sheik from Zelda's moveset completely).

Well it would be kinda weird to make the bolero of fire have the same effect as jiggs sing or dks bongos,while were at it lets make shieks instrument sound like bongos(this was just ment as a joke).I like the idea of the bolero of fire being like pikachus thunder but would it release shockwaves as it goes on or does she have to play the song first?either way it seems kinda weird.

 

[LukeFonFabre]

Also, I don't want to use Charizard. He looks slow and useless to me. I don't understand why so many people are considering him PT's best pokemon so far?

Agreed. I'm looking forward to Squirtle the most.

As for Shiek, if she does remain as Zelda's transformation (as opposed to being her own character or just not there), I think it'd just be better to buff Zelda and nerf Shiek so that they are about equal, as opposed to just keeping Shiek the way she is and just limiting her usage. Otherwise, I'd like it if Zelda was on top this time, just to be fair

 

[RBinator]

so bascially:
Zelda=buffed
Sheik=nerfed

My thoughts exactly (well, almost). Why have a limited overpowered Sheik compared to a unlimited balanced Sheik? Just because Pokémon Trainer has to switch out his Pokémon from time to time doesn't mean the same idea has to apply to Sheik. This also depends if Sakurai makes Sheik tied to Zelda, Sheik solo, or even a playable Sheik at all.

Come to think of it, maybe this time they can go through with their original plan, with Zelda finishing and Sheik combo'ing. At this point, I hardly have any idea of what can happen anymore.

 

[soaz]

Lets remember that the stamina stuff shouldnt work on shiek/zelda cuz they are the same person if shiek gets tired so does zelda.I hope you get what im saying my point is that the pokemons are different living beings but shiek/zelda arent.