Radical Larry
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2014
- Messages
- 1,994
- Location
- The Pocket Dimension
- NNID
- Crimson-Vulcan
- 3DS FC
- 1822-3761-9326
So it has now come down to this. The topic of what the stage list has always been unbalanced between our community, and recently it has become an unfathomably inane argument to where people have said that we should have less and less stages that are Tournament Legal in Super Smash Bros. for Wii U. However, after having posted smaller variations of the proposition on the Stage Legality Discussion, I have finally decided to give the ultimate proposition and ruling that stages need for this game. I cannot lie that even I think that the stage list going down to such abyssal numbers is horrifying and unbalanced to the game as a whole. But now I have the idea and countermeasure to counteract that, so please here me out on my proposition and poll, and while I am no professional, I believe this should at least be the utmost end-all argument to the minimum amount of stages in the game.
This however, needs to be put into its own topic of discussion as it talks about various things wrong with the current stage list, outlines many problems and intends to fix it, and even will give advantages listed.
This only affects the United States stage ruleset and has no effect over any other countries, but my proposition, the rule, is as follows for the stage list:
This ultimately refers to the stages known as Battlefield, Lylat Cruise, Dreamland 64, Miiverse and Midgar. However, as Midgar does have unbalanced parts of its stage, it will not be argued for. However, all of these stages have one very thing in common, as they are all dilated variants of the exact same stage. In Super Smash Bros. Melee, we have seen the same with Battlefield, Fountain of Dreams, Yoshi's Story and Dreamland 64, all of which are just dilated variants of the same concept, but all of them are tournament legal. So this points toward Smash 4 in a very ironic and outright hypocritical tone, as only Battlefield and Lylat are considered tournament Legal, with the latter being argued as to be possibly banned. However, why should we make ourselves look like hypocrites by simply allowing Melee's stage roster to have those four stages, which are again, dilated forms of the same layout, when we cannot even allow Dreamland 64, Miiverse and possibly eventually Lylat Cruise, to be legal? I will let you think about that for a second.
I will state however that I acknowledge Lylat Cruise is not a true Battlefield stage clone, but it does follow the standard 3 soft platform layout, albeit with different mechanics to its "cousin" stages. The only true Battlefield Clone is that of Miiverse, since both have the same concept that will be outlined in Article 6 of this.
Delfino Plaza itself, Skyloft, Wuhu Island and Mario Circuit U. These stages are infamous for having walk-offs and being transitional, with Mario Circuit U having hazards, albeit predictable and easily avoidable at that. Should Delfino Plaza be tournament legal, why not the other stages? They are just the same variants, if not better than Delfino itself in terms of stage layouts. Mario Circuit U, despite having hazards, actually has the most balance of them all as it has the same platform throughout and has the least amount of walk-offs, having only two. Is it not being dishonest and unfair to Delfino Clone stages to not allow them, but simply allow only one if needed? That is not how it should work at all, as all of them are balanced in their own way and see no need to simply ban them. At the least, all would be counterpick at best, no?
Inevitably, I had to write this down as I had promised earlier in the Stage Legality Discussion, but it's saddening to see the dwindling amount of tournament legal stages, yet no entirely large argument to make a set amount of stages minimum or to actually try increasing tournament legal stages. Instead of waiting and letting it sit, I wanted to do something, I needed to make this so we can at least discuss and vote on a minimum instead of a small amount of stages voted on by a little amount of people.
This however, needs to be put into its own topic of discussion as it talks about various things wrong with the current stage list, outlines many problems and intends to fix it, and even will give advantages listed.
This only affects the United States stage ruleset and has no effect over any other countries, but my proposition, the rule, is as follows for the stage list:
Article I [1]: Set a true minimum of stages.
Let the true minimum of stages not be decidedly abyssal in the stage list, and as it stands right now, there are many people who indeed want around three to five stages as tournament legal. However, there needs to be more to provide prominent balance to the metagame of characters and the amount of stages listed, as well as expanded selection of a stage instead of restricting the guideline to 1-2-1 and forcing a player to essentially choose one stage out of two to play on. However, when people have wanted only three, this further exacerbates the problem by restricting the amount of stages further. To counteract these low stages, I have created a poll to ask how many stages we should include in tournaments, and there will be no selection below 6 stages, which is the lowest I will indeed allow for this poll or else the purpose of this is outright null.Article II [2]: Balanced Stages and Variant Stages
Let no stage that is otherwise balanced within the game be banned. By this, I know that I have seen many stages within the Super Smash Bros. Wii U U.S. tournament scene banned for very inane reasons that can be outright fallacious and wrong in many degrees or overly exaggerated to the point where it is almost insane. One very example is the stage of Wuhu Island, a transitional stage with absolutely no hazards and very few walk-offs; it was due to one very glitch that this stage was indeed banned. However, that glitch had been fixed, so this stage, which would otherwise be balanced, should be legal by all means; though this is not the case and it is not even counterpick. Another very prominent example are the "Battlefield Clone" and "Delfino Clone" stages, which will be put into other arguments below this:IIa [2a]: The "Battlefield Variant" refers to any stage with a main platform and three-platform setup within the game, just merely skewed to a different size or with different elements.
I will state however that I acknowledge Lylat Cruise is not a true Battlefield stage clone, but it does follow the standard 3 soft platform layout, albeit with different mechanics to its "cousin" stages. The only true Battlefield Clone is that of Miiverse, since both have the same concept that will be outlined in Article 6 of this.
IIb [2b]: The "Delfino Variant" refers to any transitional stage akin to the concept of Delfino Plaza, and this includes
Article III [3]: Problems with a Small Vocal Group
This is one that legitimately bothers me. Why is it that we let a small amount of people merely dictate what should be public vote instead? Why let a small amount of people, who are either professionals or famous people within the Smash community, vote in how many or how little stages there should be? Many famous Smash 4 players have often called for the banning of otherwise balanced stages, which should not credit them, but it should have instead discredited them from giving arguments, since their arguments could merely be countered. But what is the problem? Why do we not do anything to stop prominent speakers of the Smash 4 community from dictating what stages we should and shouldn't have in tournaments? If anything, we need to legitimately discuss it as a community instead of letting certain amounts of people simply lower the amount of stages. I've talked with others who agree that we need a higher amount of stages, but I'm not above anyone when I say my sides of the argument, so shouldn't prominent Smash 4 players and speakers. Instead, let the people decide on what stages be legal and get a consensus going in the stead, but with a little moderation with minimum.Article IV [4]: The Advantages of a Broader Stage List
The advantages of a broader stage list (minimum) include allowing many other stages that would have otherwise been banned to be tournament legal or counterpick, it will increase the desire to go to a tournament, it will also increase the fun, gradual ratings of livestreams and best of all, balance of the game as a whole. The increase in desire to go into a tournament means that more people will be able to want to go to a tournament due to the selection of stages that could be legitimately played, and it will also increase the amount of fun as a result. Ratings would increase as the amount of stages having been increased will result in more action from the players and more strategies needed, which also balance out the game and even help some MUs of various characters who would otherwise be at a heavy disadvantage against certain characters due to a lower amount of stages. The additional strategies would also give characters more seen usage within the game as well, and would make players inevitably explore them more, and thus we will see more tournament usage and diversity for characters with the stages.Article V [5]: Ensuring Survival of Super Smash Bros. Wii U's Competitive Scene
It is imperative that we ensure the survival of this game's competitive scene, and banning stages left and right is NOT the way to do it whatsoever. This would, in turn of fact, if we do end up banning it down to only three stages legal, dwindle the competitive scene and would eventually make Super Smash Bros. for Wii U's competitive scene not only look like a joke, but also would gradually lose many people's interest for the game. Having a larger stage list ensures survival by the aforementioned Article 4, which had outlined the advantages of a broader stage list. We should not homogenize a smaller stage list, as it will ensure a quick death of the competitive scene, but instead make impromptu and diligent steps to provide survival with a larger stage list.Article VI [6]: Sub-Selections of Stages
As Article 2 may be controversial at best, I've decidedly come to the conclusion that we could have the possibility to include Sub-Selections of current stages such as Final Destination, Battlefield and Delfino Plaza. These stages are known as "Picks" in their respective category and have similar behavior, if not exact behavior as, their parent stages. These would include, but are almost limited to, Omega Stages (Wall, Semi-Wall and Platform) as the Final Destination Pick, Miiverse as the Battlefield Pick and Wuhu Island, Skyloft and Mario Circuit U as the Delfino Pick. This ensures no shortage or ban of stage variety as the stages would merely have corresponding options to pick from. As an example, should one player pick Battlefield, the players can discuss which variation of the pick should be taken, and both can either agree on Battlefield or Miiverse. As the stages are denoted as being almost the same exact stage, sub-selections merely increase variety and adopt a pseudo-Gentleman style selection rather than a banning selection.Article VII [7]: Why the Six to Fifteen Stage Minimum Limit
Originally I had intended for at least eight to nine minimum tournament legal stages (not including the Sub-Selections article, which would expand it much further), however, due to demand, there has been a step to make it six, but no lower than that as it would defeat the purpose of this. Someone had once asked for the "No Minimum" option; however, that too would defeat the purpose of the topic at hand. This thread was meant for discussion of a minimum, and going down to an amount of stages minimum that is already (albeit so far) the current minimum (5) would not work, as we at least need some more diversity in stages in order to create diversity in strategies and character usage. As outlined in Article 4, fun would be a niche should there not be a broadened option and minimum for stage selection.Inevitably, I had to write this down as I had promised earlier in the Stage Legality Discussion, but it's saddening to see the dwindling amount of tournament legal stages, yet no entirely large argument to make a set amount of stages minimum or to actually try increasing tournament legal stages. Instead of waiting and letting it sit, I wanted to do something, I needed to make this so we can at least discuss and vote on a minimum instead of a small amount of stages voted on by a little amount of people.
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