The biggest "feel" difference between Melee and PM

[-_Face_-]

I have so much love for both Melee and PM (and Brawl too, it's what got me into the Smash scene). Recently I've left the old Melee disc in the wii for a few days and have been playing around. And I think I've pinpointed the one thing that makes Melee "feel" different from PM.

It's mostly in the pivoting and just the responsiveness of the controls. Is there actually a difference between Melee's control sensitivity and the Brawl engine's? Also I've heard some things about an extra frame when turning around.

On a slightly less important note it seems that "full" wavelands are much harder in PM.

Does anyone have any other concrete things they can point to as to what makes PM and Melee feel so different?

 

[Gladiator]

Melee feels more solid to me for a a few reasons. The camera is faster I think in Melee, and the stages seem a bit smaller. The big one though is sound. Marth's sword sounds and feels awesome in Melee, not the weird thing it is in PM. Falco too sounds better in Melee. His laser just seems... squishy in PM. Not to hate on PM though, I love both.

 

[Spiffykins]

There's a lot of little things that change the feel but the physics delay is undoubtedly the biggest factor. It really changes everything...wavedashing, wavelanding, SHFFL timing, even the timing for various oddities like Fox and Falco's Up-B ledge stall or sweetspotting with side-b. I also suspect it changes the feel of aerial mobility significantly t delays horizontal momentum changes, which kinda sucks for characters that like to be in the air a lot.

I'm 100% confident that if/when pmdt are able to remove it, assuming it doesn't cause a billion bugs for them to fix, the game will instantly feel much, much more like Melee. Which is to say, smoother, more precise, more responsive, and "faster."

 

[DJCrinkleCut]

One of the things I don't like about PM is its graphics, as in the Brawl graphics.
I hate how... bleak everything looks. That and the denim textures.

 

[-_Face_-]

There's a lot of little things that change the feel but the physics delay is undoubtedly the biggest factor. It really changes everything...wavedashing, wavelanding, SHFFL timing, even the timing for various oddities like Fox and Falco's Up-B ledge stall or sweetspotting with side-b. I also suspect it changes the feel of aerial mobility significantly t delays horizontal momentum changes, which kinda sucks for characters that like to be in the air a lot.

I'm 100% confident that if/when pmdt are able to remove it, assuming it doesn't cause a billion bugs for them to fix, the game will instantly feel much, much more like Melee. Which is to say, smoother, more precise, more responsive, and "faster."

See, I think PM feels smoother and more responsive. The one thing in melee that I could do with ease and with my current muscle memeory was pivot grabbing. But pivot aerials, or even just jumping out of any kind of a turnaround would only happen about 30% of the time for me. Wavedashing and wavelanding felt just about the same, except for that one comment I had on the "perfect" wavelands. IDK, maybe it's because I started with Brawl and moved to PM so I'm just more biased in that direction in terms of what feels right.

 

[robosteven]

I'm pretty sure the detection for dashing is different in Melee. Like, it's harder to do. I'm pretty sure you have to do a full directional input in order to dash in Melee while you only have to quickly flick the joystick halfway or something so dashing/dashdancing is easier in PM.

Were it not for this slight change I'd still play Melee. I can't dashdance anymore.

 

[Frost | Odds]

I've never understood the claims that melee "feels smoother". In PM, it's easier to make my character do what the **** I want him to do. In what possible sense is that not smoother?

This includes Falco. He feels much better and more natural in PM, though most seem to claim the contrary.

 

[-_Face_-]

i think it comes down to muscle memory. Melee vets have had this MM ingrained over 13 years and so naturally anyth engine that doesn't reward the same MM is not going to feel right. The same goes for Brawl/PM players playing melee (at least for me)

 

[Frost | Odds]

I've played Melee (albeit mostly casually) since release. I still don't get it. =[

 

[Spiffykins]

I've never understood the claims that melee "feels smoother". In PM, it's easier to make my character do what the **** I want him to do. In what possible sense is that not smoother?

This includes Falco. He feels much better and more natural in PM, though most seem to claim the contrary.

As someone who started playing Falco in PM first and then more or less dropped him when I picked up Melee, Melee Falco feels a bit better. Not that PM Falco is awful, he's just a bit...stiffer. Like someone shrank and starched his clothes.

I think anyone who prefers him (or any of the Melee top tiers apart from Marth) in PM is just more used to PM than Melee, to be honest.

 

[Frost | Odds]

Certainly, I'm more used to PM. Meh, different strokes I guess.

 

[robosteven]

Aesthetics and sfx have a lot to do with it too. Falco does feel better in Melee for some reason.

Same goes for Falcon.

Shame I can't play him in either game. ;_;

 

[victinivcreate1]

Melee spacies in general>PM spacies. The only spacie that feels fantastic in PM is Wolf. TBH they should get rid of the 1 frame buffer or whatever it is that makes Melee spacies feel odd.

 

[MLGF]

Yes, clearly it's a choice.
Sorry, but it's just something kinda in Brawl that they can't fix. They add the extra frame for inputs so Melee player's aren't thrown off, or at least less so then the alternative.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Yes, clearly it's a choice.
Sorry, but it's just something kinda in Brawl that they can't fix. They add the extra frame for inputs so Melee player's aren't thrown off, or at least less so then the alternative.

Is there a reason why they can't fix it?

 

[Narpas_sword]

afaik this IS the fix.

 

[victinivcreate1]

afaik this IS the fix.

Is there a reason why wavedashing (doing the input) as Fox feels different in Melee than in PM?

 

[Narpas_sword]

um..... yes?

 

[Joe73191]

I really don't think they are that different. Go play Marth vs Captain Falcon on Dream Land with the TV muted in PM and do the same in Melee right after. It will probably help you to figure out what is wrong. Try the same thing with Fox vs Falco on Final Destination. Try Falco vs Marth on Yoshi's Story and finally Fox vs Jigglypuff on Fountain of Dreams. Personally I think they are so close that any difference wouldn't affect gameplay enough to matter.

 

[G13_Flux]

as far as WDing goes, PM reads you as airborne on the first frame after jumpsquat ends, whereas melee read you as airborne on the last from of jumpsquat (1 frame sooner). SHing and what not is slightly more challenging in melee, and for that reason, you may have to slow up your input ever so slightly to WD properly. For all realistic purposes, i think this difference is extremely minimal though.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

The vocal minority "feels" that much more obnoxious.

 

[jalued]

Is there a reason why they can't fix it?

This question is asked a lot. As far as I know, the order that the brawl engine inputs commands causes the 1 frame delay in momentum. To fix this, someone would have to re-code the entire game engine... so i doubt it will be solved

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

The biggest things that I notice are the Shield mechanics-- It's a bit trickier to wavedash out of shield, and lightshielding is history.

Also, I miss SSBM's tether mechanics, although Samus, Lucas, and the Links are the only character I'd really like to see function that way with their grapples.

Here's hoping the PMBR will find a way to fix those. Awesome work regardless!

 

[Kati]

Definitely miss light shielding.

but yeah I'm pretty sure brawl has different thresholds for the control stick producing tilts and dashing. I think in the melee the stick has to go farther to initiate both.

 

[robosteven]

Definitely miss light shielding.

but yeah I'm pretty sure brawl has different thresholds for the control stick producing tilts and dashing. I think in the melee the stick has to go farther to initiate both.

This right here.

This is the ONLY reason I can't play Melee nearly as well as I used to be able to.

Falcon is near unplayable for me now.

 

[9bit]

In PM, it's easier to make my character do what the **** I want him to do.

Same for me. Now, I played Melee for a very long time, some of that time at a "high" level. It could be that I'm more used to PM now, but when I go back and play Melee I feel out of control. I'm like, afraid of my movement because it feels so jank. To me PM feels tighter and Melee looser (which could also be thought of a smoother / more flow). At that point I guess it's up to personal preference.

 

[KeithTheGeek]

I feel sort of the opposite right now. I really like PM, but Melee feels ever so more fluid to me. I can't really pinpoint what exactly it is, but I imagine the 1 frame delay on being airborne has a lot to do with it. And for whatever reason I find wave dashing harder to do in PM than in Melee.

I think if they could tweak PM slightly more that'd be great. As it stands though the difference is really small and I already prefer PM as my main Smash Bros game. And I agree with OrangeSodaGuy, Melee tethers for zair tethers would be very welcome. Doubly so if they ever manage to get Samus's extended grapple working.