The Ai

[knuckles213]

It's been awhile since I actually posted something on smash boards. Anyways I wasn't sure if this was talked about yet, but I wanted to know what do you guys think on the idea increasing the difficulty level of the CPU in regular matches and training purposes (and teams if that matters to anyone)?

Let me into go into detail so you'll have a better understanding:

I've play competitively for awhile and stop the past year because of real life, but going back to play smash, there was one thing that I wish that was included in the game (even tho its somewhat there) or sakurai should have at least mentioned and that was having the CPU have the abilities to get smarter so that they give you more challenge so that you could improve your skill as a player when you don't have players to play against. (yea I know there's wifi, but wifi is terrible and character specific) CPU's in 64 and melee were dumb even on high levels, but brawls had a slight edge on melee and 64's CPU and were much more challenging because they could learn and get harder to fight, but that's only if you saved a lot of replays to your wii/sd Card (and also it should be noted that you should have replays GOOD PLAYERS, so that the CPU doesn't learn bad habits); I've notice that the CPU was getting harder fight and doing things they shouldn't, like copying certain actions that a player would have made; and Sakurai never mentioned this anywhere.

But my thing is that along with using saved replays (WHICH BY THE WAY BETTER BE LONGER THAN 3 MINS IN THE NEXT GAME) to to increase the difficulty or skill of the CPU, this system should carried on and improved with also being able to use accumulated saved ghost data from players.

here's an old article and some vids for proof of this CPU experience system:

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=8848

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4HvhIPOz4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YNteWW749U

Please tell me what you think.

 

[pichuthedk]

Kinda Wish I heard about this before I was doing the train on level 5s to work on being aware of what options the characters can use... but pretty awesome

 

[DakotaBonez]

My gawd, it seems like I Iearn something new about brawl every day.
Ive seen a couple of threads talk about wanting ai that learn from the player, but I suppose none of us realized that they were there all along.
I mean, how someone even implements this into ai is so profoundly amazing.
Do they only learn from replay data? If you have a 99 stock match against a cpu does it grow stronger? Can they learn from project m, or does that mess with their thought process?

That is, if this is true...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUVdXuIcU4&feature=related
I wish someone would post an interview with the ai programmers.

However, it is obvious that the ai in the smash bros series HAVE grown stronger.
It will be amazing to see what can be done after 6 years of improvements in the ai department.
Plus now that tripping has been removed from the game these kinds of features may get more attention.

 

[knuckles213]

My gawd, it seems like I Iearn something new about brawl every day.
Ive seen a couple of threads talk about wanting ai that learn from the player, but I suppose none of us realized that they were there all along.
I mean, how someone even implements this into ai is so profoundly amazing.
Do they only learn from replay data? If you have a 99 stock match against a cpu does it grow stronger? Can they learn from project m, or does that mess with their thought process?

That is, if this is true...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFUVdXuIcU4&feature=related
I wish someone would post an interview with the ai programmers.

However, it is obvious that the ai in the smash bros series HAVE grown stronger.
It will be amazing to see what can be done after 6 years of improvements in the ai department.
Plus now that tripping has been removed from the game these kinds of features may get more attention.

yea that vid is old and its true

Stocks don't matter, its just the replay data that the game somehow reads and interprets it in a way where it can learn and use in a match. You''ll notice that your CPUs will start doing actions that you or another does more frequently. Unfortunelty its been like what 6 years and nobody really bothered to open up the game to find out what causes this. plus people are ready stop caring about brawl awhile back

I believe that this only works in brawl's case as far as I know, I never got a chance to play project because of the whole not hacking your wii deal and my wii not being able to read disc(I use usb), but it could work in project M if someone were test out. My question is can project M even save replay data from the way you have to run the game? cause if it can then the CPU might get better, not sure how tho.

thank god that tripping will be gone, now all thats left to get rid of is bananas, infinite, and chain grabs.

 

[Souless_shadow]

Ai?

But in all seriousness that is a really cool function that I didn't know was in the game. I guess I should start using that to train.

 

[Superyoshiom]

I'm not sure whether or not Brawl's CPUs were even legitimately challenging. It just doesn't feel satisfying enough destroying level 9 CPUs anymore.

 

[Chiroz]

It's not only with replays. I can confirm 100% that CPU's will still copy player moves without saving any replays.

This is a double edged sword though as CPU's might also copy bad habits. My Wolf CPU always fsmashes at various specific situations because I have a friend who spams F-Smash. As such, my Wolf CPU is very easy to read.

Still, unless many various resources can be spent on the AI in order to also make it analyze its options instead of only copying a player I don't forsee the AI learning pattern to go way beyond what Brawl did.

 

[Vann Accessible]

I haven't played in a while, but I remember thinking Brawl's level 9 AI was pretty damned intelligent and challenging. Unlike Melee's.

I'd probably get my ass kicked if I played now.

Edit? Can't say ass? Really? Oh lordy.

 

[Waver]

Oh man... In my honest opinion, I don't think the CPUs need to be tougher. Brawl went a little too far with the difficulty, level 9s are practically psychic (if you're not using dirty tricks)

64 and Melee may have been dumb (especially Melee) but I kinda enjoyed their stupidity, it gave them a fun flaw. XD