The Ai can learn again...

[Captain Norris]

for those who didn't know, the ai in Brawl had the ability to basicaly copy and remember techniques and abilities that you did. There is a video floating on the internet of Peach T-bagging and opponent. And guess what? That appears to be back.

I was on the NA demo. As I played as Villager, I would occasionally T-bag, or spam the crouch up and down. Well, a few matches later the Villager was doing the same thing back to me! I will get footage next time it happens too.

Have you found cases in which the Ai is learning from you (specifically level nines)? Discuss below!

 

[yahooda]

I'm going to keep this in mind so that I can have teabag parties with CPU's later on.

 

[Captain Norris]

I'm going to keep this in mind so that I can have teabag parties with CPU's later on.

Falcon Punch parties were a thing in Brawl. Taht was all the level 9 cpu would do after awhile. Just google it

 

[Khao]

Wasn't this proven false at some point?

 

[Reila]

Wait, the Brawl AI did that? I never noticed.

 

[Spirst]

Wasn't this proven false at some point?

I have no idea but I'd definitely like to see some actual examples of this for validation.

 

[c-1]

Villager on my game tea baged also. I have yet to tea bag in the demo, so I don't think that proves it.

 

[VivaReverie]

I believe one way this was proven false was by A, looking at the AI programming itself, that's what the PM team did and AFAIK they didn't find anything learny-ish, and B, the replay save files in Brawl only recorded player movements, since AI movements were the same every single time.

...However, learning during a match and exclusively for that match could be a thing, I dunno.

 

[Azaris]

Wait I always thought the ai learning thing was just a myth. Does anyone know where I can see proof this does happen?

 

[Storm Eagle]

You want Skynet? Because this is how you get Skynet.

 

[Marxally]

Scumbag AI. I need to test it or see a video.

 

[Anomalous Adam]

No wonder I could beat the level 9 CPU initially and now it keeps ****ing rolling and shielding all my ****(the way I usually play). I seriously almost rage quit, I've never had a CPU be so dodgy before. I can barely land ANYTHING.

 

[Marxally]

No wonder I could beat the level 9 CPU initially and now it keeps ****ing rolling and shielding all my ****(the way I usually play). I seriously almost rage quit, I've never had a CPU be so dodgy before. I can barely land ANYTHING.

Just roll and grap. Even if this takes a lot of rolls xD

 

[Anomalous Adam]

Just roll and grap. Even if this takes a lot of rolls xD

Yeah but the Villager has a very punishable grab.

 

[Captain Norris]

Okay, thanks peopel for clarifying that the ai learning was only a myth in Brawl. However, it is still odd that the villager t-bagged for a good 2-3 seconds. Why would they implement this into the game?

 

[AugsEU]

It's probably just a small bug. It's not like it will happen often.

 

[Yarlick]

So that's why the Toon Link that was against me was a real devil in Brawl...I never knew that...I always told my friends that the IA in Brawl was learning from us and copying us...But I never thought it to be true...

Edit : Wait? This was just a myth?

 

[Metarai]

The AI learning is just a myth, at least it is according to a source I read. The reaction time of a cpu in Brawl is found to be one frame, which is why they perfect shield so much. People have also looked into the AI codes, replays, save files, and the fact that cpus never learn some moves and they determined it to be false.
I personally think AI don't learn things, but I do wonder why they seem to sometimes. Luck?

 

[Yarlick]

When I took Toon Link as an example, on my Wii, I have a lot of time passed on this game, I've always used Toon Link, I remember him to be "bad"...but he was "learning" everyday...The smash I was doing or the attack I was trying, it was almost like the IA knew them and accomodated to my playstyle. In the end, the Toon Link IA "became" a beast, and when I was playing with some friends, they did found my Toon Link to be quite weird since their Toon Link IA wasn't acting the same way...
So...Luck? I don't know x)
But I will believe the Project M team since they saw through the programming codes.

 

[KingClubber]

AI does not learn in a box.
Not even if you play with a fox.
Ai won't learn Not in your house.
Not even with @Mouse.
AI would not beat them
here or there.
AI would not beat them anywhere.
AI would not beat @Green Knight, @Egg$ or @Ham.
AI does not learn them, Sad-I-am.

...Seriously, if AI could learn i'd be out of a job on the PMDT team.

 

[Cruncher93]

When I took Toon Link as an example, on my Wii, I have a lot of time passed on this game, I've always used Toon Link, I remember him to be "bad"...but he was "learning" everyday...The smash I was doing or the attack I was trying, it was almost like the IA knew them and accomodated to my playstyle. In the end, the Toon Link IA "became" a beast, and when I was playing with some friends, they did found my Toon Link to be quite weird since their Toon Link IA wasn't acting the same way...
So...Luck? I don't know x)
But I will believe the Project M team since they saw through the programming codes.

I mained the Ice Climbers for a while, doing only chain grabs. After a while the AI ICs also started chain grabs. So those were programmed into the game already? It's been years since I did that but I think there were some grabs that could go from 0% to kill, since one IC can grab while the other charges a smash.

 

[StanHarford]

Okay, thanks peopel for clarifying that the ai learning was only a myth in Brawl. However, it is still odd that the villager t-bagged for a good 2-3 seconds. Why would they implement this into the game?

They did not implement this into the game, because it's a bug.
AI does stupid things all the time and nobody cares. But if they just once do something that resembles human behaviour people think it's magic. It's a fallacy.

 

[KingClubber]

I want to see a video of that @ Cruncher93

But no, IC's do not have chain grabs programmed into their code, seeing the IC chain grab in brawl is random. Which is why you haven't seen it done since then.

AI doesn't learn from anything you try to do in game because they are programmed to behave in a situation.

AIPD (The Brain) has this situation labeled, and it select a random choice by a random chance.

    fXFar {
    //Unk33 1,5,100,0
    //Unk32 2,0,100,0
    //Unk22 2,30,100,0
    //RollF 1,0,100,0
    //Unk1090 16,0,100,10
    //FHopTowards 3,40,100,0
    //SHopTowards 10,0,100,0
    //GetBehind 1,0,50,0
    //Unk1050 20,1,100,0
    //Unk3080 10,0,80,30
    //Unk3010 44,0,80,30
    //Unk10 0,10,50,0
    //Nothing 100,100,0,0

This situation "fxFar" means "If the Enemy is in front of you and Far away"

It then select of the choice by random, and then reroll another change using the numbers behind it to see if it should use it.

This is straight out the brawl's coding. SSB3DS AI code is probably very similar.

 

[Yarlick]

I see, pretty interesting.

 

[Vinje]

Really? Is there any videos where I can see that happening?

 

[Khao]

B, the replay save files in Brawl only recorded player movements, since AI movements were the same every single time.

I'm not trying to prove that the CPUs can learn, but this is actually just not true. Pick a neutral stage, turn off items to avoid random elements, and put two CPUs on a fight.

The fight will be completely different every time.

Heck, I just tested it, put Mario against Donkey Kong in Final Destination, first match, Mario jumped, threw a fireball, landed and started charging the FLUDD.

Second match, Mario ran forward.

Third match, threw a fireball in place.

Fourth match, ran backwards.

I don't know where the idea that CPUs have the same moves every time came from. Maybe the replays don't save CPUs "button" imputs, but there has to be something else that's recorded, because fact is, CPUs never move the same way in a match, but do in replays.

 

[Wyntir]

Smarter AI you say? Interesting... VERY interesting. [ off topic ] I hope that rumored USA smash demo arrives Friday (19th).

It'll be cool if the ai learned edge guarding. That would add some ... idk... coolness.

 

[marvel b]

i remember the first time the AI learned. the jumping falcon punch from melee. now whenever i play,i have to be cautious about it. then in brawl,the ganondorf teabaged me after using the shadow grab. something i used to do online.

 

[KingClubber]

@ Khao - Did you not read what i just posted.

AI does not record anything. Please stop trying to prove something that has already been repeatedly been proven false several times.

At the begin of a match. If I want mario walk up to you and usmash you, i could code that. If i want mario to jump off the stage in kill himself i could code that.

You are telling people false information.

No theory is going to beat cold hard facts.

Do you really think a cpu could do this on its own without someone programming it.

http://www.gfycat.com/VigorousAfraidBlacklab

 

[Khao]

I don't have a "theory," I'm not claiming the CPU can do anything remotely close to that. I'm not even supporting the "CPU can learn" side, I think that's complete nonsense.

All I said was that a CPU battle is different every single time, which is a hard fact.

 

[KingClubber]

But that depends on the programming of the AI.

Also...Good!

These AI can learn threads are silly as hell. The worst now being the "Nana Can learn" thread.

 

[marvel b]

i still like to believe...
i just tested this,using captain falcon and mewtwo on 9 in final destination.
first match,mewtwo charges shadow ball, cape jumps and falcon punches
second match,mewtwo grabs capt.,throws down,then side tilt,then down smash
third match,same as first,except no jump
and they both used tactics i used to do,like capt. tilt b, then up b.

 

[Deleted member]

Not saying that AI will pick up on everything, but i do think they will learn your style and learn to counter it with DI and other small mechancs. I'm over 10k coins, so I have a lot of time in it, and the CPU seems to DI in a different direction that what they used to when i will dash attack with mario. I used to be able to dash attack>fair, but now i can't get it off because the CPU DI behind me.
And I thought I would bring up that the amiibos adapt to your playstyle, who's to say normal CPU don't either.

 

[Name Cannot be changed]

video floating on the internet of Peach...

Floating
Peach

I see what you did there

 

[yahooda]

Even if the in-game AI doesn't do this, the Amiibos supposedly will.

 

[KingClubber]

@ M marvel b @greyback

Even if the in-game AI doesn't do this, the Amiibos supposedly will.

 

[Djent]

Can confirm, currently training AIs to mimic obscene gestures of various sorts.

...what, you don't believe me?!?

 

[TheDMonroeShow]

Isn't this one of key features of amibo? That it learns from playing with the player. I doubt they would put it into the vanilla game.

 

[KingClubber]

Not that i trust IGN or anything but

"When an amiibo is placed on the GamePad, that character will be brought into the game. Players have a choice of watching the character battle other characters, battling alongside the character or battling against the character. In addition, the player will not be able to directly control the character. The more the amiibo is played, the more it levels up, unlocking different moves, equipment and customization options. They will also level up faster when pitted against other amiibo fighters."

"If a player brings his or her amiibo to a friend's house and puts it into their friend's Smash Bros. game, it will bring all its unique data and characteristics with it. Even if a Mario amiibo is pitted against a different Mario amiibo, the two Marios would behave differently based on how they've been used and leveled up previously."

"Behave" differently is most likely custom moveset with different equipment, and power-ups.

There is nothing about the AI learning to do anything. The reason they would behave differently is because two amiibo will like have different stuff attached to their data.

Its a microchip not a brain.

Source: http://www.ign.com/wikis/nintendo-amiibo-figurines

 

[Khao]

But that depends on the programming of the AI.

Sure, but since replays are always the same despite the CPU having random elements, there proably has to be a recording of something other than just player input, or they'd otherwise act differently each time you open a replay.

Though it's probably just the random seeds and stuff. Especially since that's also needed for stuff like items and Luigi's/Game & Watch's side B. But yeah, since it's completely random, there's no way the CPU could learn from previous matches anyway.