That's Right! Meowth for Smash Bros! UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT

[ToothiestAura]

I actually like Gen 2 best. 1-3 were my favorite Gens. Gen 4 seemed to start a decline to me - some Gen 4 designs were just ugly. It only got worse form there. I didn't even pick up Gen 5 because when Pokemon started being based on objects and not animals they lost me.

In any case, Meowth has very little chance. I really thought we were talking about wanting Meowth to be in - not his chances. I doubt a Gen 6 would be in simply because of the time window - between that any SSB4's potential release (but that's actually a pretty long time).

 

[DonkaFjord]

I actually like Gen 2 best. 1-3 were my favorite Gens. Gen 4 seemed to start a decline to me - some Gen 4 designs were just ugly. It only got worse form there. I didn't even pick up Gen 5 because when Pokemon started being based on objects and not animals they lost me.

In any case, Meowth has very little chance. I really thought we were talking about wanting Meowth to be in - not his chances. I doubt a Gen 6 would be in simply because of the time window - between that any SSB4's potential release (but that's actually a pretty long time).

There actually were many pokemon based on objects in gens 1-4. Some might have went over your head because of cultural differences, like Castform is one of those weather dolls they hang up when it rains, and there are pokemon based off of a puppet, a marionette, a mandrake, a doll, a bell, a mirror, eggs, insect skin, sludge, magnets, cherries, pine cones, gas, shadows, pokeballs, letters, rocks, plugs, totem poles, etc. Also the ones people dislike like the ice cream pokemon- those were designed by an american (Along with those rock robots and the vultures), not Ken. Victini was also designed by this famous Japanese chick I forgot her name. And I would love meowth being in but based on his chances I am not so sure. Also the pokemon designs were finished way before the Smash roster was finished since they were already working on X and Y games by then (And 3D modeling and animations take longer than sprites etc.) Remember that Sakurai meets up with game freak/pokemon company so He would know the pokemon that are planned for future movies, which ones are they planning to market more, ect. So I am sure the roster is finalized give or take a few they are unsure they can finish in time plus some space for any last minute additions needed (Like sonic in Brawl.)

 

[ToothiestAura]

There actually were many pokemon based on objects in gens 1-4. Some might have went over your head because of cultural differences, like Castform is one of those weather dolls they hang up when it rains, and there are pokemon based off of a puppet, a marionette, a mandrake, a doll, a bell, a mirror, eggs, insect skin, sludge, magnets, cherries, pine cones, gas, shadows, pokeballs, letters, rocks, plugs, totem poles, etc. Also the ones people dislike like the ice cream pokemon- those were designed by an american (Along with those rock robots and the vultures), not Ken. Victini was also designed by this famous Japanese chick I forgot her name. And I would love meowth being in but based on his chances I am not so sure.

No, yeah, you're right. They were just, less obviously based on objects. (Not Unknown, though. That's as obvious as it can get. Just forgot them.) I was really just talking about Gear, that chandelier one, the one that's a sarcophagus, etc. Those just seem lazy and weird. The designs have just seemed to lack something the older one's had. Not all of them, the starters tend to still look pretty good.

Also the pokemon designs were finished way before the Smash roster was finished since they were already working on X and Y games by then (And 3D modeling and animations take longer than sprites etc.) Remember that Sakurai meets up with game freak/pokemon company so He would know the pokemon that are planned for future movies, which ones are they planning to market more, ect. So I am sure the roster is finalized give or take a few they are unsure they can finish in time plus some space for any last minute additions needed (Like sonic in Brawl.)

Yeah, I follow that. People just may be more upset with a Pokemon addition that is just to promote a new generation when there hasn't been much time for them to get used to the new Pokemon. Lucario appeared in stuff before the official release of Gen 4, though, Gen 6 Pokemon probably have too. And Japan had far more time to get used to it than America, so I suppose it matters less the time gap between games here.

 

[DonkaFjord]

No, yeah, you're right. They were just, less obviously based on objects. (Not Unknown, though. That's as obvious as it can get. Just forgot them.) I was really just talking about Gear, that chandelier one, the one that's a sarco****us, etc. Those just seem lazy and weird. The designs have just seemed to lack something the older one's had. Not all of them, the starters tend to still look pretty good.



Yeah, I follow that. People just may be more upset with a Pokemon addition that is just to promote a new generation when there hasn't been much time for them to get used to the new Pokemon. Lucario appeared in stuff before the official release of Gen 4, though, Gen 6 Pokemon probably have too. And Japan had far more time to get used to it than America, so I suppose it matters less the time gap between games here.

Well with pokemon getting a worldwide release I feel by the time smash is out whatever pokemon made it in will already be pretty loved. Also the gears were odd but so were magnemite. The chandelier I liked because of the pokedex entries, the 3D models, and they are based on a real ghost type. Similar to the sword guy he is based on those ghosts that inhabit tools and form spirits through those that use them (Another cultural thing... Yokkai I believe they are called not sure... Careful disposal of sewing needles at shrines were huge back in the day due to this belief.) I feel gen 6 is moving away from the older pokemon but you have to remember they still exist and the new pokemon look good mixed with the old- they give it variety.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I feel gen 6 is moving away from the older pokemon but you have to remember they still exist and the new pokemon look good mixed with the old- they give it variety.

Some of them do, at least. I still say the objects make it look weird.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Some of them do, at least. I still say the objects make it look weird.

Meh I wouldn't say that but knowing the background mythos on what they are based off of probably helps someone enjoy them more. I personally like to study the supernatural so maybe I am just attracted to them by taste. Anyways sorry about derailing the thread a bit.

 

[Arcadenik]

You know that if Eevee is playable in Smash, it cannot evolve back and forth between Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and Sylveon, right? So, what would make a playable Eevee unique without that "interesting mechanic like Pokémon Trainer" in Smash? Last I checked, Eevee is a Pokémon, not a Digimon.

 

[DonkaFjord]

You know that if Eevee is playable in Smash, it cannot evolve back and forth between Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and Sylveon, right? So, what would make a playable Eevee unique without that "interesting mechanic like Pokémon Trainer" in Smash? Last I checked, Eevee is a Pokémon, not a Digimon.

I meant somehow enable a mechanic like that. Like there is no transformation and the eevee type wouldnt change until it was KO'ed but that'd be hard to balance and be clunky, I am sure there is a way. Also I am not sure if you meant it but they came off very argumentative and if you follow each series Pikachu wouldn't have some of the moves he has in brawl, Captain falcon wouldn't be able to punch, Kirby wouldn't have his hammer/stone/cutter etc. I mean I could go on but I think you get the point that although smash follows most of the mechanics of a character from its series there are exceptions. Again sorry for the derailing this thread is for meowth.

 

[ToothiestAura]

You know that if Eevee is playable in Smash, it cannot evolve back and forth between Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon, Umbreon, Leafeon, Glaceon, and Sylveon, right? So, what would make a playable Eevee unique without that "interesting mechanic like Pokémon Trainer" in Smash? Last I checked, Eevee is a Pokémon, not a Digimon.

Non-canon Smash? Ludicrous.

Also, read the Pokemon Manga. Red's Eevee can do that.

 

[Arcadenik]

Non-canon Smash? Ludicrous.

Also, read the Pokemon Manga. Red's Eevee can do that.

That was because this specific Eevee was experimented on by Team Rocket, giving him the ability to Digivolve. Are you saying that the Eevee in Smash should be Red's Eevee? Fine, how is Red's Eevee going to work in Smash? There are eight different Eeeveelutions (water, electric, fire, psychic, dark, grass, ice, fairy) in addition to the normal form... that's 9 characters in one. And people say Zelda/Sheik and Squirtle/Ivysaur/Charizard were bad.

 

[Deleted member]

Since the Eevee could only turn into the stone based evolutions through the experimentation, it would be limited to just the original 3. (Once it evolved into Espeon, it was permanent; stabilizing its genetics).

Aside from that, who said Eevee had to be like Shielda/PokeTrainer?

Taking a page from Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion, Eevee could be like Ben, where Eevee fights primarily in base form while the Specials involve the evolved forms in a path like this:

Eevee -> Evolution -> Special Attack -> Eevee.



But that's beside the point. Last I checked, this was a Meowth thread, not an Eevee thread.

 

[YoshiandToad]

If Manga Eevee is taken into consideration then Anime Meowth definately gets consideration.

ANYWAY. ENOUGH ABOUT EEVEE.

How about some Meowth topics instead?

Would anyone want to see Meowth as a dirty fighter or would they prefer a standard Pokemon affair? Would they want to see him using various traps, trickery, cheap shots or using just his Pokemon skills of slashing, scratching, and throwing coins in peoples faces like a lord would to peasants?

Would anyone like him to utilize other Team Rocket Pokemon to help him fight, or keep him on his lonesome?
Wobbuffet for example looks like he'd make a pretty good spring board, for a Up + B. Or maybe Weezing. Arbok/Seviper for grabs perhaps?

I imagine his neutral A combo being quick swipes like a flightless Metaknight, and I can't help but imagine him having a meteor smash with that Meowth's Party guitar now. Swing it down, knock a player into the abyss. What do you guys envision for non special attacks?

 

[Sonsa]

Meowth support all the way! I think the only reason Jigglypuff got in over him in Smash64 is cause she was easier to make as she's pretty similar to Kirby. Anyway!
Pay Day, Tail Whip, Fury Swipes, all the moves are there, Pokemon come with plenty.
For his Final Smash...! You have to sit through the entire Team Rocket theme song as Meowth scurries about! And then... "Meowth dats right!" and aaaall your opponents are blasting off again!

 

[Arcadenik]

I will always want and support Meowth but it is hopeless. I am never going to play as Meowth in Smash. I will always be stuck with the same Pokemon from Melee/Brawl till SSB5... because they cannot keep embargoing potential Pokemon newcomers out of Smash (just for the sake of keeping all the Pokemon veterans) indefinitely in all future Smash games.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I didn't even pick up Gen 5 because when Pokemon started being based on objects and not animals they lost me.

I realise this is a very late reply, but they've done that for a while with the following Pokemon and their evolutions:

1st gen: Magnemite, Voltorb, Any rock Pokemon.
2nd gen: Wobbuffet(Punching bag? Not sure if this one counts), Unown.
3rd Gen: Nosepass, Chimecho(wind chime)
4th Gen: Bronzor, Probopass

Weirdly people only noticed this when Vanillite, Klink and Trubbish showed up.

Back on topic:
Meowth's score for want in the Rate Their Chances game was what got my (Go)goat. I expected low chance ratings, that was obvious, but I can't understand why people don't WANT Meowth? He's only relevent because of the anime? So are Genesect and Zoroark. If not for those movies no one would probably care about their existence seeing as how small a role they have in the games as well.

Pokemon's going to be decided by the anime, not the games. Otherwise we'd be getting Purrloin over any other potential newcomer seeing as it was a major part of the BW2's 'plot'.

Depressing!

 

[Sponge]

Hate to bump this, but I'm surprised at the lack of posts! Meowth's one of the oldest Pokemon that's still used in the anime, gets merchandise and is still pretty popular. I'd take Meowth over Jigglypuff in Smash anyday.

 

[Arcadenik]

Meowth is still featured in merchandise? I thought they were reserved for Pikachu, starters, Legendary Pokemon, and flavor of the month movie Pokemon.

Anyway, I believe the reason most people don't want Meowth in Smash is the same reason they don't want Zoroark or Genesect or a new Pokemon Trainer... They don't want them to "steal" the 5th spot from Mewtwo and they don't want to cut anyone to make room for new characters.

 

[Curious Villager]

Meowth is still featured in merchandise? I thought they were reserved for Pikachu, starters, Legendary Pokemon, and flavor of the month movie Pokemon.

Anyway, I believe the reason most people don't want Meowth in Smash is the same reason they don't want Zoroark or Genesect or a new Pokemon Trainer... They don't want them to "steal" the 5th spot from Mewtwo and they don't want to cut anyone to make room for new characters.

It's kinda sad it came to this. I mean I would like to see all the Brawl Pokemon plus Mewtwo back as much as the next guy, but at the same time, with such a huge series like Pokemon and it's large cast of potential great pokemon. I would still be quite disappointed if all we got for the Pokemon franchise are just the Brawl veterans plus Mewtwo (As much as I want Mewtwo back so much).

I guess that's why I'm probably still holding out hope that we might still see Zoroark or Meowth come along anyway, as unlikely as that might seem.... :T

 

[Sponge]

Meowth is still featured in merchandise? I thought they were reserved for Pikachu, starters, Legendary Pokemon, and flavor of the month movie Pokemon.

Anyway, I believe the reason most people don't want Meowth in Smash is the same reason they don't want Zoroark or Genesect or a new Pokemon Trainer... They don't want them to "steal" the 5th spot from Mewtwo and they don't want to cut anyone to make room for new characters.

Depends on the merchandise really, but he's there.

 

[ShichibukaiJimbe]

I would love Meowth to be the second pokemon rep in the 64 game, unfortunatelly I feel it's too late now to the character

 

[NitrusVirus]

Let's be honest here. Jigglypuff could stand to be cut to make room for Meowth, and a welcomed one at that. I dont see Pkmn Trainer being cut entirely but maybe carried over into maybe a standalone Charizard or altered in SOME way from Brawls iteration of Pkmn Trainer. If we had Pikachu, Meowth, Pkmn Trainer/Charizard, and Mewtwo thats technically 4 characters, so we could stand to have one more.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Meowth is WAY to underrated.

 

[YoshiandToad]

One thing I don't buy is Sakurai wanting to rep the gens more fairly. If this was true, why on earth would he have picked the Kanto starters and Red?

I will continue to support Meowth through the years, but every game gets more difficult for the scratchcat to have a chance, seeing as since Melee a new Smash Bros. comes out roughly every two gens.

Honestly at this point I'm mostly glad to see there's still a lot of love for him; despite there being 719(ish) Pokemon now he's still in the top 3 most wanted Pokemon newcomers(excluding Mewtwo). I doubt if there's another Smash people will still support Genesect or Zoroark(or at least not to the same insane levels, after all Blaziken does still get some support as do Plusle and Minun), but I feel Meowth fans will remain wanting Meowth for years to come.

Is he important to Gamefreak though? That seems to be the argument I've seen a lot. Obviously he's important to the anime. No one can truly question this; he's the second main Pokemon in the series right after Pikachu.

But what about the games?
Every gen(except second where the closest we get is the cat weasel; Sneasel) a new speedy cat Pokemon with two forms turns up: Meowth, Skitty, Glameow, Purrloin, Espurr.
Who else gets a new Pokemon similar to themselves every generation? Pikachu. It could be a coincidence, but I feel like a new cat Pokemon being added so frequently means Meowth is maybe more important to Gamefreak than they let on hence why they repeat this tradition.

But regardless of these kind of tenuous links for Gamefreak, Meowth is important to US. The Pokemon fans.

He is a part of our childhoods, a part of the Pokemon boon that took the world by storm, and no doubt he's still insanely popular. He may not be the strongest Pokemon, he may not be the best in the metagame, but he is a part of something nearly all Pokemon fans watched growing up. THAT is why I feel Meowth is a true Pokemon "All Star" and that is why I will most definitely always want him.

 

[Sponge]

I don't understand where people get the idea that Jigglypuff is the second most popular Pokemon. I see it mentioned on a lot of different forums and it makes me wonder if people truly believe that.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/05/japan-votes-on-the-most-popular-pokemon/

This was from 2010, and Meowth hit #5. That's a pretty impressive feat.

 

[Arcadenik]

I don't understand where people get the idea that Jigglypuff is the second most popular Pokemon. I see it mentioned on a lot of different forums and it makes me wonder if people truly believe that.

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/05/japan-votes-on-the-most-popular-pokemon/

This was from 2010, and Meowth hit #5. That's a pretty impressive feat.

#1 - Arceus
#2 - Darkrai
#3 - Deoxys
#4 - Pikachu
#5 - Meowth

No way... how come no one mentioned this before?!?!?

 

[Sponge]

#1 - Arceus
#2 - Darkrai
#3 - Deoxys
#4 - Pikachu
#5 - Meowth

No way... how come no one mentioned this before?!?!?

Beats me. Whenever I see Pokemon discussion it's usually about how Jigglypuff is so safe because she's part of the original 12. Wasn't she one of the last characters added to Brawl? I dunno.

Either way unless we can get Meowth's name out there I think his boat has sailed. It's getting a bit too late for Sakurai to add characters.

 

[Arcadenik]

I hope Sakurai is aware of how popular/iconic Meowth is outside the video game forums in Japan... but I already feel demoralized about Meowth's chances ever since he was deconfirmed in Brawl.

I always wanted Meowth to be a lightweight speedy acrobatic fighter with lots of scratches, bites, and throwing coins... I envision Meowth as a ninja-like fighter... the coins could be like shurikens... and Meowth could fight similar to other cat-like characters in other fighting games like Felicia from Darkstalkers games and Cham Cham from Samurai Shodown games.

 

[D3monicWolv3s]

Mewtwo and Meowth are the only deserving reps to me.

 

[Sonsa]

Yeah Meowth definitely deserved a spot more than Jigglypuff back in the day...now I feel Sakurai believes she's one of the characters that make smash bros... smash bros! And he could definitely be right, many people feel that way, she's been with us since the beginning, and hey she has a unique moveset, but enough of this, Jigglypuff is not the enemy. No reason Meowth and Jigglypuff can't both be in! If Meowth doesn't get in the game on release, I feel he has a nice chance for DLC. As one of the mysterious fighters planned for the beginning, and the only one not eventually put in! Even if they put Meowth as a pokeball character, it could just be to throw us off. There can be more than one Meowth after all.

 

[DonkaFjord]

Yeah Meowth definitely deserved a spot more than Jigglypuff back in the day...now I feel Sakurai believes she's one of the characters that make smash bros... smash bros! And he could definitely be right, many people feel that way, she's been with us since the beginning, and hey she has a unique moveset, but enough of this, Jigglypuff is not the enemy. No reason Meowth and Jigglypuff can't both be in! If Meowth doesn't get in the game on release, I feel he has a nice chance for DLC. As one of the mysterious fighters planned for the beginning, and the only one not eventually put in! Even if they put Meowth as a pokeball character, it could just be to throw us off. There can be more than one Meowth after all.

The rumor is Jigglypuff was a last minute add on back in the day because she used some of the animations kirby did (so they say.) Some claim Sakurai was looking for a character to use some pre existing material to help fill out the roster a bit more so he finally decided on Jiggs.

 

[Sonsa]

The rumor is Jigglypuff was a last minute add on back in the day because she used some of the animations kirby did (so they say.) Some claim Sakurai was looking for a character to use some pre existing material to help fill out the roster a bit more so he finally decided on Jiggs.

Ahh, yeah, that's what I thought. They probably saw Jiggs and said "Hey, she's kinda like Kirby...and she's sorta popular in the anime, right?" Tah-dah.

 

[Sponge]

Ahh, yeah, that's what I thought. They probably saw Jiggs and said "Hey, she's kinda like Kirby...and she's sorta popular in the anime, right?" Tah-dah.

Considering Smash 64 was a low budget game I'd be willing to believe that was the case. Now we're in 2013 and Pokemon has had six generations of games. It'd be so hard to include Meowth we you already have Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo if he comes back on the roster.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I support him. (I'd make a joke about him being confirmed today, but he was supposed to be in SSB, so.)

 

[SuperBrawler]

I think people are forgetting the concept that Smash is about NINTENDOS ALL STARS! Meowth is definitely one by a long shot.

 

[Sonsa]

I think people are forgetting the concept that Smash is about NINTENDOS ALL STARS! Meowth is definitely one by a long shot.

More of a long shot than Jigglypuff or Solid Snake? I'm not saying he's likely, but he was considered once for a reason.

 

[YoshiandToad]

More of a long shot than Jigglypuff or Solid Snake? I'm not saying he's likely, but he was considered once for a reason.

No, he's saying Meowth is definitely a Nintendo All Star BY a long shot(aka he's very iconic), not that he's a long-shot himself.

Although he (unfairly) is also a long shot at this point.

Or maybe not so much a long shot as a dark horse candidate.

 

[SuperBrawler]

No, he's saying Meowth is definitely a Nintendo All Star BY a long shot(aka he's very iconic), not that he's a long-shot himself.

Although he (unfairly) is also a long shot at this point.

Or maybe not so much a long shot as a dark horse candidate.

He is like the second most iconic pokemon due to the anime.

 

[Sonsa]

Oh. Alright, whoops. But yeah, the anime. The same place Jiggs's 'popularity' came from. I don't hate Jiggs, but Meowth's whole argument seems to be "Hey, that's my spot." But now that Jigglypuff has made a name for herself and is part of the original twelve and this and that all cause of her appearances in smash bros...maybe they can both have a spot? Ehhh I dunno.

 

[SchAlternate]

#1 - Arceus
#2 - Darkrai
#3 - Deoxys
#4 - Pikachu
#5 - Meowth

No way... how come no one mentioned this before?!?!?

Actually, number 5 was Mew, not Meowth. Though that list was basically screwed up by the fact that they mentioned that whoever reaches the first place would be given away.

Even then, I'm sure Meowth is still up there with the top five.

 

[Sponge]

Actually, number 5 was Mew, not Meowth. Though that list was basically screwed up by the fact that they mentioned that whoever reaches the first place would be given away.

Even then, I'm sure Meowth is still up there with the top five.

Oh wow was it? Everywhere I've read has said Meowth.