Technically, do you think nair (sweet spot) is Megaman's best offstage kill option? let me explain

[p1ay6ack]

so i just found out megaman nair (sweet spot) is one of the best offstage moves to kill with. Maybe the best off stage kill option for megaman. its got a KnockBackGrowth of 150 while fair has knockback growth of 100, and bair has knockback growth of 100. Looking at these KBG perecentages tells us that nair(sweet spot) offstage is by far the strongest kill option , better than the other two, for megaman to kill with.

It is interesting to note about bair's multi hit move tho.

bair has a knockback growth of 180 at the last hitbox tho, but being multi hit means your opponent can DI out of the full multi-hits, and the first two multi hits have a KBG of 100, that opponents have a decent window to act out of (lack of hitstun) and dodge the last multi hit.

Lets look at the frame data. nair got low start up lag (7 frames), and can quickly act out of, bair (4,7,10 frames) low start up lag, but requires a bit of commital frames for the three hits to hit, fair (9 frames) start up lag and end lag is pretty committal. what does this tell us? Nair is the fastest and less committal option megaman has at his disposal to killing offstage. all you really got to be good at is being a good sniper and a good reader

Ive been testing this on training mode, and ive been getting nair (sweetspot) on toon link at 110+% and killing him at this percent. keep in mind, training mode doesnt calculate rage, so this could kill much earlier

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

I would like to see a video of someone using it

 

[smasher1001]

I've gotten kills with nair offstagea few times, but i feel bair is overall a much stronger option due to its further reaching (disjointed too!) and faster startup since frame 4. I haven't seen anyone really DI out of bair honestly though, any vids of it?

 

[p1ay6ack]

I've gotten kills with nair offstagea few times, but i feel bair is overall a much stronger option due to its further reaching (disjointed too!) and faster startup since frame 4. I haven't seen anyone really DI out of bair honestly though, any vids of it?

the disjointed option is good, can't deny that, and it is powerful, but bair frame 4 start up frame has low KBG. I mightve confused DI with something else. the first 2 multi hit of bair can push away your opponent from getting hit by the 3rd. By push away, I mean the KBG sends them a bit farther and gets a bit harder to land the 3rd hit. bair is still good, yet nair can travel farther too and disrupt somoene's jump trajectory to the stage (if you dont get the sweet spot). I think nair has potential as much as bair for offstage shenanigans

 

[CopShowGuy]

I don't think you can DI out of bair while airborne. Hit 1 has a set knockback of 0, hit 2 has a set knockback of 55, and hit 3 comes out 3 frames after hit 2 so it doesn't matter how much it may knock you back.

 

[p1ay6ack]

I don't think you can DI out of bair while airborne. Hit 1 has a set knockback of 0, hit 2 has a set knockback of 55, and hit 3 comes out 3 frames after hit 2 so it doesn't matter how much it may knock you back.

that does make sense. im probably confusing my phrasing with something else x_x

 

[Locke 06]

BAir's finisher does more damage than NAir's canon hitbox. Knockback isn't quite as simple as "higher knockback growth = better kill potential."

NAir's canon hitbox has a deadly launch angle though and is great offstage.

 

[ChopperDave]

It can be fun to jump at someone and fake a bair, bait their airdodge, and hit them with a nair instead. I've gotten a few stage spikes that way

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I think more importantly nair has much fewer end lag frames so you can go quite a bit further out and still make it back to the stage. Fair is pretty slow and nair you have to face backwards which can be very telegraphed.

Bair is fast and has good knock cal but you have to either RAR it or let go of the ledge to hit it.

 

[Rush 2112]

It's harder to time the shot, you have to leave yourself open to attack, and you need to be right on top of them. I think safety has to play a part in deciding which one is best and imo it will always be dair. That can kill at much lower %, even around 50 if you hit them low enough and their recovery isn't amazing. It depends on the char which option will be best.

Are you even considering dair here? You didn't mention it once. And you don't need to be ONLY a good sniper, your opponent's skill matters too. Their ability to mix up and their characters recovery options.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Well, Nair can also break horizontal momentum, people. Yes, getting a blank point Nair is hard, but lemons are still there and can cripple some characters. It won't work on everyone & it will never gimp, but it still is fun to do once in a while.

 

[Sorichuudo]

It's harder to time the shot, you have to leave yourself open to attack, and you need to be right on top of them. I think safety has to play a part in deciding which one is best and imo it will always be dair. That can kill at much lower %, even around 50 if you hit them low enough and their recovery isn't amazing. It depends on the char which option will be best.

Are you even considering dair here? You didn't mention it once. And you don't need to be ONLY a good sniper, your opponent's skill matters too. Their ability to mix up and their characters recovery options.

Do you manage to hit dair often?

Seems like i hit it only after throwing everything plus the kitchen sink at my opponent, forcing them to go low, and even then i need to time it perfectly. I hit bair way more often and easily. Am i using dair the wrong way? How do you do it?

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Do you manage to hit dair often?

Seems like i hit it only after throwing everything plus the kitchen sink at my opponent, forcing them to go low, and even then i need to time it perfectly. I hit bair way more often and easily. Am i using dair the wrong way? How do you do it?

Read them. Read them like the library couldn't satisfy your thirst for knowledge. Or just drop from the stage and Dj to get the perfect height if they can't get to the ledge horizontally.
(btw Sweetspot Dair = fun cuz it kills XD)

Personally, I think FAir is a really good gimp tool when you connect the sourspot (it has low knockback, but is even more horizontal than Nair). As long as you keep your DJ & your UpB, you shouldn't die if you connect it.

 

[Sorichuudo]

"Read them. Read them like the library couldn't satisfy your thirst for knowledge." I'm so using this as a signature.


Even when reading, hitting them with bair is easier like that too. Also mindgames are fun, "imma jump with mah back to you obviously i'm going to -SURPRISE HARD KNUCKLE!", works sometimes XD.

 

[Diamond Octobot]

Go for it, Sorichuudo. You don't even need to quote me

 

[Rush 2112]

Do you manage to hit dair often?

Yes.

Knowing their recovery is a big part of it. You need to time it properly so your fist is occupying the space between them and ledge. If they have a fast recovery like Marth you need to do it a bit early, for example. Some chars are even immune to it during their UpB. Ever since I watched a video explaining the proper spot to hit people who are trying to grab the ledge I'm landing much more. If you've never seen that video it's the spot a little bit away from the ledge and a little bit below it. Not where their hands will be.

The stage pick matters. Anything with perfect vertical walls is best for dair spikes. Dunk Hunt and some Omegas like MM's means they can't go under the stage and avoid the dair. They will often try and recover away from the wall, gotta read and guesstimate.

The easiest way to land it is to knock them off stage above the ledge, and as they try and fall into the ledge you hit them with a MB and chase it with a dair. With the right timing it's almost kill confirm. I land it quite often. Any hit with a MB as they recover is going to force them to upB in a way they didn't want to, in a way that is likely unsafe, in a way that sometimes guarantees a dair spike if you throw it at the right time.

Otherwise it's just chasing them with it and timing it right. Reading them or getting a lucky prediction.

Some recent vids where I land a dair kill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWCzOg_H-Yk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2LRMDT1fKg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frGHjh4fK50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcYrxsup-_M

Combo vid that has many examples
https://youtu.be/WqF0LYKhhb4?t=43
https://youtu.be/WqF0LYKhhb4?t=113
https://youtu.be/WqF0LYKhhb4?t=234
https://youtu.be/WqF0LYKhhb4?t=444
https://youtu.be/WqF0LYKhhb4?t=524
https://youtu.be/WqF0LYKhhb4?t=914

Can't find any right now where I MB > Dair spike.

I think every move has it's merits depending on the situation/matchup but to address the question in the OP - I don't think nair is the best offstage option. I think it's dair : )

btw: I love your avatar!

 

[Sorichuudo]

btw: I love your avatar!

Ha ha, thanks, found it while browsing for some images XD

And i see what you mean now, i am definitely using this move wrong. I am aware of that video now, ledge snapback or something by tourney locator.

Back to the lab for now.

 

[xIvan321]

All aerials really do serve a purpose. Less-so fair off stage but that's another topic. Bair, Dair, and Nair are what you always want to use, Nair specifically to safely return since Bair takes a long time to end. Dair works best if its combined with a diagonal metal blade either to force an air dodge or to combo into. When you think Dair won't spike or connect, its always good to use nair. Bair if you want good range that kills. Uair to potentially use as last resort if they decided to recover over you in an off-stage situation.

My opinion on F-air is, its primary use is on stage for spacing.

Outside of that type of edge-guarding, Nair/Jab (sour spot) is really good along side Leaf Shield (auto cancelled) hanging on the ledge just to harass people on stage making recovering potentially more difficult for 50 frames.