Tech skill videos incoming, suggestions?

[gravy]

Hey guys, I'm going to upload some videos going over the kind of tech skill we should be able to do, and showing ways that I practice it. I plan on going over a lot of stuff, but I'd like to hear suggestions from you guys on things I should make sure to cover, and I'll do what I can to work it in.

 

[Wizzrobe]

lot of Movement tricks like perfect wavedashes on platforms.

 

[Nicco]

Shield drops. Lots of waveland tricks. Edgecancelling. Lots of moonwalk tricks and different ways of initiating the moonwalk. Combo practice. For NTSC: gentleman!

OOS game, shield pressure and edgeguarding.

And DI and recovery.

And lots of sexinessss

 

[gravy]

Alright, those are good suggestions. I don't think I want to include combo practice, because I have a seperate project cooking up for those.

 

[Zhea]

In terms of things I don't see discussed a lot that falcon could really benefit from? P.C. Edge hogging, and edge canceling up b on platforms and stage edges. especially stage edges. I think being able to do that would force people to not just hold edge vs falcon.

 

[BTmoney]

Frame data for characters and techs that you can cover on reaction.

That and OoS stuff

 

[6VI6]

Pc dropping with falcon isn't useful (slow walk with jerky movement) but pivot dropping would be good.

Also that thing where you jump and turn around when you land to grab the edge. Probably falcon's easiest way the grab legde from far in the stage.

 

[ShrieK1295]

Also that thing where you jump and turn around when you land to grab the edge. Probably falcon's easiest way the grab legde from far in the stage.

Any video of this? I don't think I know about this

edit: tried it a bit in practice and got it to work a few times. Ughh, so many things to practice in melee!

 

[gravy]

In my opinion, dash pivot ledge grab as well as jumping to the ledge and pivot edgegrabbing (I Don't think they have real names since PC refers only to the walking version) are just too difficult to be able to perform even close to consistently. Now, I could be wrong, and if someone here can really do it consistently (meaning they can expect to do it at least 10 times in a row perfectly) than you'll have to teach me how you do it and I'll start practicing it. On a side note, I'll definitely include ledge cancelling up b Zhea.

 

[Zhea]

Everyone says that, but there are so many combos/techs that are already as frame tight as that (1frame) that I think with enough practice it could be done.

 

[gravy]

Like I said, if someone can do it then I'm wrong, but as of now I've never seen anyone who can do it on command. I've tried practicing it before, and it just seems impossible.

 

[BTmoney]

Seriously include the tech chase stuff and throw in something on the most efficient tech chase positioning (for say, dthrow vs spacies/relevant characters).

(ex. Gucci usually opts to WD forward immediately after the throw, some falcons foxtrot to bait a reaction, some dash dance, some run up and shield, hell some sticky walk etc. I like WD forward)

If you have access to Dolphin or whatever you run framework in then you can see how late you can be as far as frames go and still be able to chase the tech without giving the opponent an opening (i.e. frame trap). With reaction time being a generic 11-14 frames (about .2 to .25 seconds) and you can separate characters into to tiers (ranging from "don't expect to cover this tech on reaction" to "feasibly covered on reaction" and "easily covered on reaction" or whatever) of how easy it is to chase their techs, along with the actual number.


(ex. "hypothetical Falco's" away tech goes X distance for a duration of 25 frames including tech-start-up (in the beginning after you picked your direction but did not begin to move). "Hypothetical Falcon" can run X minus his grab range (subtract out the grab range because he does not need to overlap the person to grab them) distance in 12 frames and grab grabs on frame 7. This gives you 6 (25 minus [12+7]) frames to react therefore you should not expect to be able to cover that tech based on reaction from the most efficient tech chase position.

/made up

Falcon's own tech chase data will obviously have worse numbers than Falco with his pathetic tech rolls

etc.)


Thoughts?

 

[Zhea]

Like I said, if someone can do it then I'm wrong, but as of now I've never seen anyone who can do it on command. I've tried practicing it before, and it just seems impossible.

After practicing this some tonight I really feel that this is doable, I think with a few more days/week of practice I could start implementing it. Do you understand how it works?

Edit: Yeah you can totally do this gravy, you are much more technical then me, you can get this down.

 

[6VI6]

I feel like they are both very doable with a good amount of practice, when i have daily access to a cube I'll work on them. But I do the jump to turnaround ledgehog on accident often enough when i try moonwalk to edgehog.

 

[Zhea]

S

I feel like they are both very doable with a good amount of practice, when i have daily access to a cube I'll work on them. But I do the jump to turnaround ledgehog on accident often enough when i try moonwalk to edgehog.

Sorry P.C> edge grab is the wrong term. What I am talking about is dashing to the edge and pivot grabbing it. I am pretty sure this is the fastest way for falcon to get to the edge.

 

[6VI6]

Yeah I got that, I thought you were talking about both of the techniques. And Dash to pivot grab is fastest if you are already near the edge. If you are in the middle of dreamland or something the jumping stuff will be faster.

Edit: to shriek, I don't think i've seen videos of it before but I'll see if I can get it recorded this weekend in a tournament match or something.

 

[gravy]

Alright I guess I'll keep practicing it then. I'll just keep ledge cancelling a knee or something and trying to do the pivot edge grab. But I don't know if I can put it in to a tech skill vid until I can do it consistently myself.

 

[Zhea]

The real hard part of it is just mastering the ability to do a dash pivot. If when your doing this your stick is tapping the sides, you are going to far. You just want to dash->pivot stand. Then just space it to the edge, which is the easy part

 

[gravy]

Just apply the same motion to the jumping one?

 

[6VI6]

The jumping one doesn't require pivots. You just turn around immediately after you land. Similar mechanics to pc dropping, just you get forward momentum from the jump instead of walking.

 

[Zhea]

True, but the jump is readable, and limits your options. Dashing towards the edge is very nebulous, making it harder for opponents to read.

 

[6VI6]

I mean, you use the jump when you are too far away for the pivot drop (and i guess pivot to wavedash would fall in a length between these).

Lots of discussion about falcon's edge game on smashboards recently lol

 

[Zhea]

If you are in dd range you are in range to pivot drop. You can also use crouch to let you dd again if it's out of dd range.

 

[gravy]

So in my opinion it seems like I should buffer a turn around for the jumping one, and try to let go the frame I turn, where as the dash one is just pivoting normally at the very edge while again letting go the frame I turn. Is this about right?

 

[Zhea]

how are you buffering jumps in melee?

 

[gravy]

No I can't buffer a jump, what I mean is I will jump at the ledge, aiming for the edgecancel, and while landing I'll be slightly holding the control stick to the opposite direction so that I buffer a turn around, with the intention of releasing as soon as I can while still getting the turn around. I think getting a good understanding of the best way to do your technical inputs is really important for establishing speed and consistency, which is why I'm trying to dissect these inputs.

 

[6VI6]

I didn't think about buffering turnaround actually.

Anyways i got quite a few of them in 10 minutes, so definitely viable.

 

[gravy]

Well, I practiced them and couldn't really do it very well at all, maybe I'll just include it in another video when I get better at doing it.

 

[Zhea]

So here is what I have found works, after slamming the control stick in the direction to get the dash, you have to return it to a little past neutral quickly. If you hit the other end of the octagon, then you screwed up. It's a flicking motion. It's also easier to start closer to the edge so that it's one motion rather than delayed, though you can do it from a full dash

 

[gravy]

Alright. What about the ledge cancel one?
Edit: actually, if I jump at the ledge, am I supposed to not ledge cancel? Does ledge cancelling stop your momentum entirely?

 

[Zhea]

Okay so I don't know how the jump works, but the dash one is essentially stopping during the pivot frame. Which kills your momentum.

 

[rjgbadger]

pivoting isn't that hard at imo

just takes practice, but i am really good and pivots in 64 and the skill transfers. melees is hard tho

 

[gravy]

It's not pivoting I'm struggling with, I consider myself better than average at pivoting. It's doing this pivot ledge grab thing that I'm struggling with.

 

[Zhea]

The difference here is your not just trying to hit a button during the pivot animation to stop you (a very binary method) vs stopping on the pivot frame (an analogue method). The main issue is that you can't use both hands to facilitate it which makes a lot of precise timing tech easier for me.

 

[gravy]

If I do this with an aerial, do I have to not ledge cancel the aerial? It seems like that stops my momentum and ****s me up.

 

[Zhea]

I'm no sure, what I think would happen is you would get the pivot, and then start nairing and then die. for the the jump cancel version I think you would only have to worry about how a nair/fair would push falcon away from the edge before canceling. Oh That's another cool trick. ledgehop knee which cancels itself and returns you to the edge.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

wall jump bairs???
that always gets hype and falcon is most entertaining indeed
westballz was amazing last night

 

[gravy]

I think I'm being misunderstood. I'm talking about if I'm trying to aerial the ledge and then instantly grab the ledge with a pivot. This is a way that I could aerial the ledge from far away to cover myself and then instantly ledge grab.

 

[Zhea]

Umm to be honest I don't know enough about the ledge cancel pivot shenanigans to have anything to say on that.

 

[gravy]

Yah it seems like not many people do. Melee is so mysterious.