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Team Attack

NisforSmash

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Whelp it's idea time again. So this time around i had been thinking about doubles. One of the things I think is awesome about doubles is the crazy potential for things like this to happen. Something I've always wished for in smash is the ability for two characters in doubles to perform a unique attack or ability. Something like if the wombo combo were a context sensitive team final smash. Of course i know this wouldn't be possible for Project M with how little the team is and how much work that would require to work flawlessly. So i gave up on that idea and got to thinking about other ways to influence teamwork in doubles.

Then i came up with team attack. Not in the sense of a context sensitive wombo combo final smash, but something simpler. Perhaps a one time attack where both press a button and a cool move executes? Sorta but not quite there yet. I came up with a team ability that isn't even really an ability. They would be more so odd quirks or gimmicks like wave dashing except these would be intentionally programmed into the game. The good thing about them is they wouldn't require any new animations. None. The bad thing is that they're more than likely very difficult to program. The odd quirky part about them is they can only be executed when team attack is on. I know as of now it sounds really strange but please just read them and see what you think. Any and all feedback is accepted and appreciated.

Universal Change: Throwing a teammate still gives them the knockback and damage however there is no hitstun, so they may act instantly out of it. (credit to @ Mera Mera Mera Mera for this one)

Wario: Performing chomp on a teammate increases wario's waft. Pummeling a teammate increases wario's waft.

Mario: Performing a footstool on a teammate gives them their second jump back in exchange for mario's second jump. If he has already used it then they do not receive their second jump.

Luigi: Performing a sweetspotted super jump punch on a teammate with luigi doesn't put him in a helpless state
which allows him to perform luigi missiles afterwards. He doesn't get his jumps or super jump punch back though. Luigi receives a stored misfire everytime his teammate dies. If he takes a stock from a teammate from a misfire then he receives another. (hence the name "misfire")

Peach: If a teammate is holding a turnip, Peach's chances of pulling something special increase. Also teammates may footstool off of peach's opened parasol without any falling animation to peach. Peach bombers on teammates will always show the heart graphic unless the taunt button is pressed which will then display the explosion effect. If peach counters a teammates attack using toad, she immediately puts toad away as opposed to an attack coming out.

Bowser: Any attack performed on bowser by a teammate while he crouches doesn't make him flinch however he will still receive the damage. Teammates may footstool off of bowser while he is performing whirling fortress without tumbling him. Bowser's fire breath increases in potency as long as it hits a teammate.

Yoshi: If yoshi uses egg lay on a teammate on ground, as long as the teammate holds shield, the egg they became encased in becomes a weaker pseudo yoshi shield that can't roll but can be jumped out of at any time. Once it breaks from attack their shield reverts back to normal and yoshi must do it again. If yoshi uses it on a teammate in air they may use their second jump out of the egg at any time. While in the egg, they may only jump out. If it breaks, there is no shieldbreak with the helpless state. The egg just falls apart with the character standing there.

Donkey Kong: If donkey kong cargos a teammate he takes all damage and knockback from attacks as opposed to the teammate and he ignores light projectiles. Throwing a teammate delivers no damage to them as well.

Diddy Kong: Teammates and Diddy no longer trip from bananas owned by diddy or the teammate. If a teammate gets hit by diddys rocketbarrels they receive their second jump back.

Captain Falcon: If captain falcon lands a raptor boost on a teammate he is not put into freefall and is allowed to use falcon dive afterwards. He doesn't receive any more jumps however. Falcon will automatically turn away from teammates when falcon punch is activated.

Wolf: If wolf shines a teammate he receives his second jump back and the teammate can act out of it instantly.

Fox: If fox shines a teammate they can di away and act out of it instantly.

Falco: If falco shines a teammate they can act out of it instantly.

Ice Climbers: If the ice climbers freeze a teammate the teammate takes no damage while in the ice block and it doesn't move. The ice block can be kept frozen if the ice climbers keep using ice based attacks on it.
Programming miracle idea: If the player using ic's is going sopo, he can use Belay on a teammate in place of nana however when he gets pulled back to the stage he automatically jumps on as opposed to grabbing the ledge.

Zelda: Zelda's dins fires always launch a teammate upwards towards the stage. Zelda's Nayru's love sends teammates upwards towards the stage and gives them their second jump back,

Shiek: Shiek's chain gives a teammate their recovery move back.
Programming Miracle Idea: If a teammate can reach sheiks chain but not the ledge, the chain becomes a temporary tether for that character. With shiek in control being able to choose when to pull the teammate up.

Link: Tethering a teammate propels link to the teammate.

Toon Link: Same as link

Ganondorf: If ganon aerial flame chokes a teammate off the stage to both of their deaths, ganon loses a stock while the teammate retains theirs. If ganon footstools a teammate they automatically go into fastfall but can act out of it instantly. If ganon lands a down aerial on a teammate (ouch) he gets his second jump and both recovery moves back.

Mewtwo: If mewtwo attacks a teammate out of his teleport he can either hover or teleport once more but not both.

Lucario: If lucario and a teammate taunt next to each other his aura is raised. If a teammate grabs lucario, pummeling him will raise his aura.

Pikachu: Pikachu's Quick Attack gives a teammate their recovery move back. Teammates may walljump off of pikachu while he is using skull bash.

Jigglypuff: Resting a teammate restores jigglypuff's health back to 0. Sleeping a teammate recovers the teammates health by 1% every second. The teammate can jump out of it at any time they choose with the max health they gain being 10%.

Squirtle: Bubble doesn't trip teammates. Water gun doesn't push teammates back as far. While squirtle is using withdraw, footstooling his shell doesn't phase him.

Ivysaur: Synthesis pulls teammates towards ivysaur while it normally pushes other characters away. Can tether teammates to propel towards them. If ivysaur has solar beam charged, grabbing and pummeling a teammate heals them by 2%. If solar beam isn't fully charged, grabbing and pummeling a teammate deals 1% to both ivy and the teammate.

Charizard: While charizard is gliding, teammates may footstool off of his back with no falling animation for charizard. If charizard uses fly infront of a teammate they go up with him.

Samus: Same as link. Being hit by a teammates fire attack swaps her moveset to fire while being hit with a teammates ice attack swaps her moveset to ice.

ZSS: Paralyzer doesn't damage teammates. Using her up special or side special tether recoveries on a teammate allows her to propel towards them. Cannot trip teammates with her down special. If zss lands a down aerial on a teammate they are given their second jump back.

Lucas: Lucas' Offense up attack done on a teammate buffs their offense as it did for him. He may charge offense up afterwards but the buff will not actually be applied until the teammate has used theirs. If a teammate destroys lucas' pk thunder he gets it back. If lucas is in pk thunder's 2nd state and hits a teammate, the momentum and attack transfer over to the teammate.

Ness: Pk fire dissipates on teammates shields. If a teammate destroys ness' pk thunder he gets it back. If ness sends his pk thunder into a teammate, they become electrified. If they hit ness, the ability and momentum transfers over to ness.

Pit: Anything reflected by pit's shield cannot hit teammates. Also his shield doesn't turn teammates around. If pit is gliding, footstooling does affect him however if he is using shield bash, footstooling the shield gives the teammate a little more of a boost.

Kirby: Can swallow teammates. Be happy with it. Teammates may footstool off of kirby's stone ability endlessly and without height detriment. Footstooling also doesn't take kirby out of stone state.

Metaknight: Mach tornado on a teammate sends them upwards which can carry them.

Dedede: If a teammate dies, Dedede is guarentee'd a gordo on the next waddle dee toss. If dedede has a teammate in his mouth, he takes all damage from any attack.

Ike: Ike's super launcher doesn't kill teammates. If ike footstools/jumps out of a quickdraw on a teammate, he jumps off of them as if they were a wall. If ike 0hitko's a teammate instead of taunting he makes a death sound.

Marth: Using the first part of dancing blade on a teammate allows him to use it again as if it were his first use.

Roy: If roy hits a teammate with the second hit of his side special, he receives his second jump back.

Olimar: Can tether onto a teammate which propels him to them. If Olimar latches a pikmin onto a teammate they won't attack him until he uses his whistle (down special). Once whistle is used, the pikmin self destructs delivering little to no knockback but providing a bit of damage. Olimar can footstool teammates without tumbling them.

Rob: Footstooling rob gives the teammate a second jump in place of one of his robo boosters.

Game and Watch: Parachuting a teammate gives them their recovery move back. Oil Slick can be filled by teammates. Hitting a 9 on a teammate makes him perform a death sound but also guarantees another 9 following the next number.

Snake: If snake stickies a teammate they can pass it to an opponent by grabbing and pummeling once.

Sonic: Teammates can footstool sonic's spring in air. If sonic does a homing attack on a teammate he doesn't do the little trick afterwards making him able to act out of it sooner.

I'm up for any suggestions as well. Post your thoughts regardless of whether you love em or hate em.
 
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shairn

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Double Pikachu = flying around the stage

Why not
 

NisforSmash

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Double Pikachu = flying around the stage

Why not
I feel like that wouldn't really be a problem. You would have to keep it going for a long time for it to be considered stalling, plus if you keep it going for awhile they take damage on each hit so once they mess up either they fall to their death or whoever can kill them in one hit. Also that would probably be incredibly difficult.
 
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shairn

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Bowser + Jigglypuff sounds a bit broken though, since Bowser could crouch, take a rest and burn Jiggs awake.

Some of these I like, for example Peach's parasol being bounced off of, Mewtwo gaining one more hover/teleport, Charizard flying teammates up.

Also, I don't think Olimar's pikmin attacking your teammate in special fall would break them out of it, since they do no knockback.
 

NisforSmash

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Bowser + Jigglypuff sounds a bit broken though, since Bowser could crouch, take a rest and burn Jiggs awake.

Some of these I like, for example Peach's parasol being bounced off of, Mewtwo gaining one more hover/teleport, Charizard flying teammates up.

Also, I don't think Olimar's pikmin attacking your teammate in special fall would break them out of it, since they do no knockback.
Hmm...the bowser jiggs combo does sound a bit steep however bowser would still receive the damage from the rest and jiggs would take damage from the burn. Also consider that it would take a bit of time to set up properly. Bowser is the slowest character and a physical tank while jiggs is now a worse than before floaty + a potential stock tank for doubles. I think the trade off while being in jigg's favor is pretty fair. Bowser already takes damage like a pro so this is nothing new plus if jiggs keeps doing it she'll shorten the time of his life. It's really a selfish gimmick that is only effective under certain circumstances....or when your teammate is bowser.

White pikmin does when it blooms so i guess that one would require some serious coordination.
 

Mera Mera

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A change that could be universal that would be cool:

If you throw your teammate, they take full knockback, but don't go into hitstun (so you launch them and they can do an aerial). That could get pretty silly/fun.
 

NisforSmash

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A change that could be universal that would be cool:

If you throw your teammate, they take full knockback, but don't go into hitstun (so you launch them and they can do an aerial). That could get pretty silly/fun.
I'm adding that to the OP if you don't mind.
 

Sour Supreme

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I love it, Nis. I've long been interested in Doubles strats and ideas like this. A guy I used to do doubles with, (Who, despite my advisement never got a Boards account) and I spent what seemed like an eternity trying to time Lucas and Ness's f-smashes so we could bat one opponent back and forth. We got pretty good at this, but it wasn't an ideal strat. It took perfect timing which was rare, especially considering one enemy had to be removed so the last man was vulnerable. That being said, after our endeavors I spent a lot of time thinking about ideas similar to yours. One of mine was that a teammates shield would deflect Ness's PK fire, which could then be caught and thrown like an item. Unfortunately, I don't know how practical that is and I didn't know any programmers who were willing to try.

Props on these ideas!
 
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RascalTheCharizard

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I think some of these ideas are seriously cool and I would love to see them implemented! Charizard, Dedede, Lucas and Link's ones are a few that really stand out to me.
Roy: If roy lands a fully charged flare blade on stage on a teammate, all players lose a stock.
This one however made me all like "wut".
 
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NisforSmash

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I love it, Nis. I've long been interested in Doubles strats and ideas like this. A guy I used to do doubles with, (Who, despite my advisement never got a Boards account) and I spent what seemed like an eternity trying to time Lucas and Ness's f-smashes so we could bat one opponent back and forth. We got pretty good at this, but it wasn't an ideal strat. It took perfect timing which was rare, especially considering one enemy had to be removed so the last man was vulnerable. That being said, after our endeavors I spent a lot of time thinking about ideas similar to yours. One of mine was that a teammates shield would deflect Ness's PK fire, which could then be caught and thrown like an item. Unfortunately, I don't know how practical that is and I didn't know any programmers who were willing to try.

Props on these ideas!
Hmm. That sounds like it could be cool but like you said probably difficult to program. Although that did give me an idea which I'll put up for ness.

I think some of these ideas are seriously cool and I would love to see them implemented! Charizard, Dedede, Lucas and Link's ones are a few that really stand out to me.

This one however made me all like "wut".
Yea...the FE lords i don't really like all that much....any ideas?
 

RascalTheCharizard

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Yea...the FE lords i don't really like all that much....any ideas?
Well it appears you changed it. A weird point but, wouldn't Dairing someone be very impractical? The endlag is huge without L-Cancel and Roy is like the 7th fastest faller in the game. Hmm, I really don't have much in the way of ideas (so creative lol). Maybe in addition to getting his jump back, he could be able to instantly jump out of Dair? Idk.
 

NisforSmash

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Well it appears you changed it. A weird point but, wouldn't Dairing someone be very impractical? The endlag is huge without L-Cancel and Roy is like the 7th fastest faller in the game. Hmm, I really don't have much in the way of ideas (so creative lol). Maybe in addition to getting his jump back, he could be able to instantly jump out of Dair? Idk.
Hmmm...I don't think letting him cancel it is the answer...
 

Mister the Wizard

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I haven't read through all the combos yet, and I haven't read anybody else's responses, but I just have to say this looks so legit. It would add so much more strategy to doubles. I hope this becomes a thing. I love the idea of being able to like, have mario back throw a teammate offstage, just as an example lets say lucas, and lucas goes all the way out there from the throw then backairs for the kill, but still has jump and everything since he was thrown. This just sounds so cool.
 

Mister the Wizard

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Ok so I got the time to thoroughly read through this thread, and holy crap I love this idea. However, if it is implemented I don't think it will be any time soon. I agree that this would probably be really hard to program. I still have decided to give my opinions on this stuff though. Also I really think that this should get some more attention/discussion. Here's my opinions on all the attacks suggested so far:
(brace yourself this could take a while)
Throwing a Teammate: If nothing else, this simply has to be implemented. This could lead to so many more strategies and could bring SO MUCH hype to doubles.
Wario: I think it's cool but the damage on the teammate might not be worth it, just an opinion.
Mario: I think this could be cool but seems way too complicated and hard to pull off for the skill level that I'm at :p
Luigi: Honestly not sure how this would help that much, because if you're down under the stage, super jump punch and get your missles back, you'll still be in a position where you won't be able to make it back. I just think this wouldn't do very much honestly.
Peach: I think both these changes would be AWESOME, especially the umbrella.
Bowser: I feel that this wouldn't change very much as well, since bowsers crouch cancel is already good, and like others said the bowser+jiggs combo could be crazy.
Yoshi: This would be helpful so that you don't accidentally kill a teammate, but besides that idk.
DK: I like this one a lot. Would be really cool to see a DK scoop up a teammate and save them by tanking all the damage. I think this would be really unique and helpful, but not overpowered. I vouch for this one.
Diddy: Eh. Seems like a pretty obvious change.
Falcon: Once again, don't think this would change too much.
Wolf: Pretty cool, and I could really see this being used.
Falco/Fox: Neat idea, but not strategy changing like wolf's.
Icy's: I like both of these changes a lot. The second one seems, like you said, hard to program but the first sounds really cool.
Zelda: This is another one of my favorites. I could see Zelda becoming a support/stock tank.
Shiek: Meh.
Link/Toon Link/Samus/Zero Suit Samus/Ivysaur/Olimar Grapple: Pretty frikken cool. I like all these "propel to a teammate" moves. That would be neat, and probably not that hard to program (just a guess)
Ganon: This seems more of a balance than a team attack.
Mewtwo: This one's cool. I could see someone dropping down to help his recovery.
Lucario: This is really interesting, and I could see this being used a lot in between stocks. I like it.
Pikachu: Another favorite.
Jigglypuff: This is another really cool one, but could be abused (Bowser+Jiggs)
Squirtle: More small changes that I think could make a big difference and make squirtle a more playable character (in doubles at least)
Ivysaur: Another change I think would be really awesome. The ability to heal a teammate would be really cool, making Ivysaur an even better Tank/Support
Charizard: Not much to explain on this one, I just like it.
Samus: I don't think the bomb part is very useful, because the set up required to do this would be difficult and the situations where it would actually be useful seem few and far between.
ZSS: Sure. Just another thing that seems like a given.
Lucas: As a Lucas main, I like this a lot. Giving the buff to your teammate would be so cool, however I think that for fairness he should not be able to have the buff at the same time. If he buffs a teammate he should not be allowed to charge it until the teammate uses it up or dies. If both team members could have it stuff would get crazy unfair. The pk thunder thing is ok i guess.
Ness: Same as Lucas.
Pit: This seems like it could be pretty cool.
Kirby: I thought this was already a thing.
Meta Knight: This is another favorite, and I picture this being used a lot. Especially with Meta Knight being a popular doubles character.
King DeDeDe: I love this one. Any guaranteed one use power move, like the Gordo after death, or a stored Luigi Misfire, is really cool. Also, just like Donkey Kong, I think a character being able to save a teammate and tank for them is just super cool and adds so much to the strategy and team play.
Ike: I honestly don't see the point of this one.
Marth: Don't get this one either :L
Roy: Now this ones cool, but no one plays Roy.
Olimar: Ok so this one sounds useless, but this COULD be very very helpful, although you can sorta do this already. If a teammate is at high percent, you could attach a pikmin to him, then if he gets hit by an enemy and uses his recovery move, you command the pikmin to attack and your teammate gets knocked out of free fall and can Up+B again. Other than that I don't see it's use.
Rob: Pretty nifty.
Game and Watch: I like this one. Being able to fill up the Oil Bucket for free could be really powerful, and the parachute thing is a really good idea.
Snake: Another favorite. You don't have to try and be sneaky and stick your enemy when they're off guard, you can just coordinate with your team. This is a really really really cool one.
Sonic: Pretty simple but I like it.

I hope these opinions helped. Sorry for such a long post, but after reading through this I just had to comment on each and every one. Thanks so much for this idea, I really hope it gets implemented.
See you all later!
~Mister the Wizard
 

NisforSmash

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Wow! Thanks for the reply and support @ Mister the Wizard Mister the Wizard

I've taken into account everything you've said and will update the OP accordingly.

For ikes, essentially suppose he is too far away from the stage horizontally and there's no wall on the stage, let's say his teammate mario jumps off the stage, ike can quickdraw, then either footstool out of quckdraw on mario or jump against mario as if he were a wall. When ike uses quickdraw against a wall inputting a jump command allows him to walljump so just imagine him doing that against mario, however ideally mario is going to get all the momentum from the quickdraw so he'll likely be pushed back onstage.

With marth, using his side special once in air halts his vertical momentum temporarily so if lets say he uses his side special, jumps, then uses it again, his momentum wouldn't be halted the second time however with my suggestion if he hits a teammate it would halt his vertical momentum again.

Luigi's super jump punch + missile recovery works better for horizontal recovering. Let's say he's really far out there with teammate charizard, he can super jump punch zard then missile himself back onto stage. The super jump punch gives zard a guaranteed landing. As long as he's high enough up, he should be able to recover using missiles, second jump and air dodge alone.

Olimar's is exactly how you described it. It's perfect for getting a teammate out of a helpless state without killing them or giving them too much knockback like a grenade or bomb would. The character would just walk around with a pikmin stuck to their leg or hanging off them as a backpack until olimar uses whistle.

Like you said, i hope this does get discussion even if it's just someone saying they like the concept but don't like any of my ideas specifically. I'd be fine with that.
 
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PMS | Tink-er

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I'm pretty sure the super wavedash is happens after Samus uses her bombs because the animation after the bomb comes out puts her into a ball, but her landing animation is her standing. So the inputs cause her to interact out of ball form in such a way that there is very little friction. The bomb doesn't contribute to the SWD beyond this, and Samus can SWD pretty far away from the bomb. This is all IIRC though.
 

NisforSmash

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I'm pretty sure the super wavedash is happens after Samus uses her bombs because the animation after the bomb comes out puts her into a ball, but her landing animation is her standing. So the inputs cause her to interact out of ball form in such a way that there is very little friction. The bomb doesn't contribute to the SWD beyond this, and Samus can SWD pretty far away from the bomb. This is all IIRC though.
I didn't know that much. I removed the SWD portion anyway so good timing i suppose.
 
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Mister the Wizard

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Wow! Thanks for the reply and support @ Mister the Wizard Mister the Wizard

I've taken into account everything you've said and will update the OP accordingly.

For ikes, essentially suppose he is too far away from the stage horizontally and there's no wall on the stage, let's say his teammate mario jumps off the stage, ike can quickdraw, then either footstool out of quckdraw on mario or jump against mario as if he were a wall. When ike uses quickdraw against a wall inputting a jump command allows him to walljump so just imagine him doing that against mario, however ideally mario is going to get all the momentum from the quickdraw so he'll likely be pushed back onstage.

With marth, using his side special once in air halts his vertical momentum temporarily so if lets say he uses his side special, jumps, then uses it again, his momentum wouldn't be halted the second time however with my suggestion if he hits a teammate it would halt his vertical momentum again.

Luigi's super jump punch + missile recovery works better for horizontal recovering. Let's say he's really far out there with teammate charizard, he can super jump punch zard then missile himself back onto stage. The super jump punch gives zard a guaranteed landing. As long as he's high enough up, he should be able to recover using missiles, second jump and air dodge alone.

Olimar's is exactly how you described it. It's perfect for getting a teammate out of a helpless state without killing them or giving them too much knockback like a grenade or bomb would. The character would just walk around with a pikmin stuck to their leg or hanging off them as a backpack until olimar uses whistle.

Like you said, i hope this does get discussion even if it's just someone saying they like the concept but don't like any of my ideas specifically. I'd be fine with that.

I'm glad I could help! I was so interested in this, and really wanted to give my opinion. I'll be sticking around here, as I really want to see how this develops. Also, I see what you're saying with Ike, Marth, and Luigi, but I still think that the situations where this would be useful are very rare. Using your Ike+Mario scenario, it is highly unlikely that both people on the opposing team would be dead, and they would definitely try and stop you from doing the maneuver. And now, instead of Mario saving Ike, they're both in bad positions and could easily be intercepted/killed. I think that something more unique and maybe more useful would be much better.
 

NisforSmash

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I'm glad I could help! I was so interested in this, and really wanted to give my opinion. I'll be sticking around here, as I really want to see how this develops. Also, I see what you're saying with Ike, Marth, and Luigi, but I still think that the situations where this would be useful are very rare. Using your Ike+Mario scenario, it is highly unlikely that both people on the opposing team would be dead, and they would definitely try and stop you from doing the maneuver. And now, instead of Mario saving Ike, they're both in bad positions and could easily be intercepted/killed. I think that something more unique and maybe more useful would be much better.
I agree that the situations would be rare but i think that it shouldn't be too difficult to pull off. The teammate just has to place themselves in front of the recovering character and they'll do the rest of the work if they're good enough. I'll try and come up with something else but the FE lords are especially difficult to be creative with so unless you or anyone else has any decent ideas for them i'll just leave it as is.
 
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