Taking a Note out of Pokemon's book

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

For the past few weeks I've had something stuck in my head regarding a nintendo sponsored tournament setting for smash 4. The more and more I look at the limitations of the Wii U version (namely controller syncing) the more I see the 3ds scene taking off, primarily when I relate it to pokemon.

Now to preface this I'm going to explain what I mean. In 2011 (iirc) nintendo began hosting pokemon tournaments (VGCs) first party wise. Before this, there was occasional events sponsored by Pokemon company but there was never a season or a tournament atmosphere. Further more, the metagame of pokemon was decided by those players who all came together to make their own ruleset and tier lists, namely smogon. The standard for pokemon was 6 vs 6 single battles with rules set in place to balance ladder play as well as tier lists and suspect tests to ensure balance in all tiers. This still goes on but with the introduction of Pokemon Company VGCs there is a new format specifically made for these tournaments. They follow the same tournament structure that the pokemon trading card game had known for years, they have Battle Road, Cities, and Regional tournaments with a point system in place. They had a yearly national tournament as well as a World Championship.

Looking at the pokemon model (which a certain AlphaZealot is associated with, you may have heard of him *cough cough*) it isn't out of the realm of possibility that Smash Bros for 3ds will be the more supported platform. Nintendo through pokemon company already has sanctioned events for competition and 3ds to 3ds connection is miles easier than controller interference and syncing with a wii u. They even had methods in place to allow spectating for feature matches and finals. I could easily see smash bros doing the same thing, swiss rounds of however many minutes with a top cut and championship point system similar to pokemon.

All and all, I think that its reasonable to relate the two, it seems pretty obvious to me at least. I think a lot of people (as evident with the 2 forums difference in post counts) are writing off the 3ds version as a "port that limits the wii u version" and are more stuck with the traditional mindset of BYOC tournaments we've been used to, when it seems more likely that the 3ds scene will possibly be the better one. Especially with how many more 3ds's are sold as well as handhelds selling more than home consoles on average. There will probably be a bigger player base of 3ds than wii u and even though I'll support both versions and hope that nintendo supports both with traditional tournaments (I think that with the proper support, since we have a massive install base that we can be the biggest e-sport ever) but I would put my money on the 3ds when it comes to first party support.

 

[Sashimi]

I think Nintendo would be more likely to support 3DS competition than Wii U competition, but what about the players? Online works well for Pokémon because it's turn-based. I wouldn't want to have to deal with latency in a fast-paced game like Smash Bros.

 

[BaPr]

Nintendo will most likely do Wii U events. Why? Because it is great advertisement for it. After the Wii U gets out of the low sale zone, I could see them doing both side by side, or even just 3DS events. I mean, Nintendo in japan would have major events only for the 3DS considering it even sold out in Japan. Also, why do you think the 3DS will have a better scene? My reasons are that it will have more players, easier set ups (credit to Capps for that reason), and that it just seem cooler to have 3d and a second screen.

 

[Zero Requiem]

Nintendo will most likely do Wii U events. Why? Because it is great advertisement for it. After the Wii U gets out of the low sale zone, I could see them doing both side by side, or even just 3DS events. I mean, Nintendo in japan would have major events only for the 3DS considering it even sold out in Japan. Also, why do you think the 3DS will have a better scene? My reasons are that it will have more players, easier set ups (credit to Capps for that reason), and that it just seem cooler to have 3d and a second screen.

Sounds really neat tbh and I agree.

 

[Tesh]

Yea, I think the first 2 responses outline the biggest issues. You can't really compare turn based gameplay with fast paced fighting. Something like Pokemon, Civilization, Yu Gi Oh or Monopoly can be played with virtually any amount of lag because either player will spend 50% of their time doing nothing anyway.

Syncing wiimotes might not be as much of an issue if the technology is stronger for Wii U controllers. I've had no missed inputs using my gamepad in the same situations where my wiimote is nearly useless. If the same technology powers the Wii U Pro controller, there is hope there.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

I'm not saying Wii U competitions are out of the question, I'm just saying it makes more sense if the 3ds was the focus of nintendo sponsored tournaments. Of course the player base will continue to play the wii u version and I'm not talking about gameplay, I'm talking about set ups. With a 3ds tournament there is no need for set ups and controller syncing is an issue, I'm not talking about input. Let me give you a scenario: its time for pools and because there are no wired controllers, everyone needs to individually sync to the wii u, don't you see there being potential problems when numerous people over a tournament setting are all trying to sync controllers at about the same time?

I'm not trying to say the wii u scene would be weak, I'm just saying the 3ds scene would work better. Not online wise because I know how different games can't always be smooth, I'm talking about in person play. The Wii U scene looks a lot worse than a 3ds scene for potential nintendo sponsoring hosting. I think you guys are misunderstanding.

I think Nintendo would be more likely to support 3DS competition than Wii U competition, but what about the players? Online works well for Pokémon because it's turn-based. I wouldn't want to have to deal with latency in a fast-paced game like Smash Bros.

Not talking online, pokemon tournaments are in person.

Nintendo will most likely do Wii U events. Why? Because it is great advertisement for it. After the Wii U gets out of the low sale zone, I could see them doing both side by side, or even just 3DS events. I mean, Nintendo in japan would have major events only for the 3DS considering it even sold out in Japan. Also, why do you think the 3DS will have a better scene? My reasons are that it will have more players, easier set ups (credit to Capps for that reason), and that it just seem cooler to have 3d and a second screen.

They're already got a successful model with pokemon, swiss rounds, bring you DS, top cut. They would have to get specific set ups that would again cause confusion when syncing comes into play, trying syncing 10+ wii u controllers onto 5 different consoles in the same general area. The 3ds makes more sense since handhelds sell more on average and its easy to have a tournament, everyone brings their 3ds and they get matched up. I'm also not saying Wii U is out of the question just a lot more difficult on paper

Yea, I think the first 2 responses outline the biggest issues. You can't really compare turn based gameplay with fast paced fighting. Something like Pokemon, Civilization, Yu Gi Oh or Monopoly can be played with virtually any amount of lag because either player will spend 50% of their time doing nothing anyway.

Syncing wiimotes might not be as much of an issue if the technology is stronger for Wii U controllers. I've had no missed inputs using my gamepad in the same situations where my wiimote is nearly useless. If the same technology powers the Wii U Pro controller, there is hope there.

Again this isn't about lag online, these would be local things. I don't think you guys understood with my pokemon example. Battle Roads, Cities, and regionals are all held in person with pairings, not online play, this has nothing to do with that.

It is because of the seer number of controllers syncing at the same time


You guys missed the point.

 

[BaPr]

I think I wasn't clear. I honestly believe the 3DS will have a better scene, but if Nintendo sponsors it, it would be for the Wii U because they would want to advertise it, due to low sales.

 

[Tesh]

Party games aren't as fun on a handheld imo. Smash is generally going to have alot of people watching. Its also more comfy to be able to sit back and hold a controller, than to hunch over a small screen or hold it up to your face , hurting your arms after some time.

From a hardcore perspective and a casual perspective, the console version is superior. Handhelds have an advantage in portability, but thats thrown out the window when you consider a tournament situation where you have to stay in one place for a few hours anyway.

 

[BaPr]

Party games aren't as fun on a handheld imo. Smash is generally going to have alot of people watching. Its also more comfy to be able to sit back and hold a controller, than to hunch over a small screen or hold it up to your face , hurting your arms after some time.

Consoles will definitely be better when it comes to party games. Also, the way I like to sit down, it is a lot easier to use a handheld instead of a console. I have a chair that can go back (forgot what it is called).

From a hardcore perspective and a casual perspective, the console version is superior. Handhelds have an advantage in portability, but thats thrown out the window when you consider a tournament situation where you have to stay in one place for a few hours anyway.

Not really sure what you mean by hardcore, but to a casual, I believe that the handheld is better. The reason why is because it is easier to access and judging by how much phone games are played by casuals, I say that is very important (that, and the fact that it is cheaper, which the 3DS also has).

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

Party games aren't as fun on a handheld imo. Smash is generally going to have alot of people watching. Its also more comfy to be able to sit back and hold a controller, than to hunch over a small screen or hold it up to your face , hurting your arms after some time.

From a hardcore perspective and a casual perspective, the console version is superior. Handhelds have an advantage in portability, but thats thrown out the window when you consider a tournament situation where you have to stay in one place for a few hours anyway.

Fun is subjective. Besides it's the same thing if you're hooking up to play someone.3DSXL and the circle pad pro. Pokemon also provides spectating. All those are easily addressed.

I'm not saying the console version won't be better, I'm saying the 3ds has the potential to have a better scene because nintendo direct support would be much easier because we already have a good case study in pokemon. As a result, if the scene is DIRECTLY supporter than by nature it will have a better scene since it's not solely community funded and held.

I think I wasn't clear. I honestly believe the 3DS will have a better scene, but if Nintendo sponsors it, it would be for the Wii U because they would want to advertise it, due to low sales.

It's pretty clear, nowhere was online stated and while I could have directly stated in person, since I am relating it to the TCG, it's sort of implied.

 

[BaPr]

Oh, well 3DS tournaments will work more fluently (is that the right word?). The 3DS has an advantage because it is its own set up, and controller syncing isn't an issue. One issue will be the fact that trying to connect to a certain player might be hard, but since everyone (or mostly everyone) will have their own names, you could choose which person to play with. Am I on the right track now?

 

[Heefe]

By the time Smash 4 will be released, the Wii U already has Zelda WW HD, Mario Kart 8, Super Mario World etc., so I guess the sales overall will be much more.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

Oh, well 3DS tournaments will work more fluently (is that the right word?). The 3DS has an advantage because it is its own set up, and controller syncing isn't an issue. One issue will be the fact that trying to connect to a certain player might be hard, but since everyone (or mostly everyone) will have their own names, you could choose which person to play with. Am I on the right track now?

Pretty much, is really to connect DS/3DS to DS/3DS with no complications, that why something like US Nationals for pokemon could support 300+ people in swiss rounds.

By the time Smash 4 will be released, the Wii U already has Zelda WW HD, Mario Kart 8, Super Mario World etc., so I guess the sales overall will be much more.

I know that but it doesn't matter, handhelds ALWAYS have larger install bases.

 

[SmasherP82]

You kidding me Pokemon X and Y 3DS XL's sold out in Japan just like that now imagine Smash 4 for 3DS/Wii U

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

You kidding me Pokemon X and Y 3DS XL's sold out in Japan just like that now imagine Smash 4 for 3DS/Wii U

Just a statistic about pokemon sales compared to smash brothers sales:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros.

The highest selling smash game, melee, sold 8.1 million copies, every main series Pokemon game outsells melee sans Black and White 2. Pokemon is a bigger franchise with a much larger install base and cultural recognition. I don't see where you're going with this. Yes the Wii U will see MASSIVE sales after the release of Smash 4, Mario Kart 8 and such but handhelds in their lifetimes ALWAYS sell more than consoles. (The only exception being the PS2 which barely outsold the DS in lifetime sales.

 

[SmasherP82]

Just a statistic about pokemon sales compared to smash brothers sales:

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Pokemon
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros.

The highest selling smash game, melee, sold 8.1 million copies, every main series Pokemon game outsells melee sans Black and White 2. Pokemon is a bigger franchise with a much larger install base and cultural recognition. I don't see where you're going with this. Yes the Wii U will see MASSIVE sales after the release of Smash 4, Mario Kart 8 and such but handhelds in their lifetimes ALWAYS sell more than consoles.

You know I always wondered why Handhelds selled more but meh and if there were more people into Smash than Pokemon I'd probably not even imagine it........I don't even know how many pokemon fans there are Ik I'm one of them o_o

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

You know I always wondered why Handhelds selled more but meh and if there were more people into Smash than Pokemon I'd probably not even imagine it........I don't even know how many pokemon fans there are Ik I'm one of them o_o

Cheaper price and portability, there is a trend of that lowering in the recent year with the advent of the Tablet and Smartphone eating a majority of the market share, still the 3ds outsells everything per month.

A lot of people point fingers at pokemon for the boom of handheld gaming, it revolutionized the gameboy model after the initial tetris boom. Nintendo makes billions of handhelding gaming per year.

But there aren't, pokemon is a franchise bigger than any other franchise other than Mario.

 

[SmasherP82]

Cheaper price and portability, there is a trend of that lowering in the recent year with the advent of the Tablet and Smartphone eating a majority of the market share, still the 3ds outsells everything per month.

A lot of people point fingers at pokemon for the boom of handheld gaming, it revolutionized the gameboy model after the initial tetris boom. Nintendo makes billions of handhelding gaming per year.

But there aren't, pokemon is a franchise bigger than any other franchise other than Mario.

Of course it's bigger than Mario and if you'll excuse I'm gonna cry over my horrible ranking in the Pokemon Global Showdown T-T

 

[LiteralGrill]

I thought Brawl sold more then Melee. O_o

Um... it was.

At 11.76 million.

 

[ScubaF_ingSteve]

I thought Brawl sold more then Melee. O_o

Um... it was.

At 11.76 million.

Mmm the stat I used was off, still my point still stands with numbers.

 

[BaPr]

I can't wait to see what events are put up. If the U.S. doesn't do much with the 3DS, I am moving to Japan where the 3DS sold out.

 

[SmasherP82]

I can't wait to see what events are put up. If the U.S. doesn't do much with the 3DS, I am moving to Japan where the 3DS sold out.

but you can't *^* we need you in Murica!