Sweet Spot on Vision? O.o

[Darklink401]

I've played against a lot of Shulks. They send me pretty far when I'm at 70 or 80%

But not that far.

I was playing him with Kirby. Now Kirby is a light character, sure, but I was 85%

And we were at two thirds of the stage. I used a bair on him, but moved right to his center as he used Vision, almost behind him.

And it freaking MURDERED me x.x

Is this just how its supposed to be, and Kirby's just really light or...?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

It probably does but I'm not sure where, maybe the blade itself as it is raised to hit with the beam.

 

[Masonomace]

I've played against a lot of Shulks. They send me pretty far when I'm at 70 or 80%

But not that far.

I was playing him with Kirby. Now Kirby is a light character, sure, but I was 85%

And we were at two thirds of the stage. I used a bair on him, but moved right to his center as he used Vision, almost behind him.

And it freaking MURDERED me x.x

Is this just how its supposed to be, and Kirby's just really light or...?

I would need a video to help answer & confirm your question. Because Vision does have some complexity to it's hit-boxes, including the possibility if he had any Art currently in use while Vision countering you. So here's some questions in hoping to get more answers:

1. Kirby is a Very-Light-weight character. He's the 3rd lightest character only being heavier than Mr. G&W, & Jigglypuff on this weight rankings: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Weight#Super_Smash_Bros._4_weight_values
   
   
2. Did you inhale Shulk to copy his Neutral-B MArts by any chance? Jump, Buster, & Smash mode all reduce weight so it may have been a factor.
   
   
3. Did the Shulk have any MArts currently in use? Buster or Smash mode could have done the trick to do tons of damage with Buster, or send you flying really far with Smash KO'ing you.
   
   
4. Was it Forward Vision, or regular Vision?
   
   
5. Finally, show me the video?

 

[Darklink401]

1. He is definitely light. But that launch was not normal. Will review footage later, cuz at work now for specific damage and stuff.

2. I had him inhaled, but I either had jump or speed art, so wouldn't have affected anythin, right?

3. Will say for sure once I replay the footage later, but I believe he had the...uh...yellow one.

4. No idea. What the hay is Forward Vision?

5. I shall record it later :3

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

You know you got hit with a Forward Vision when Shulk dashes straight toward you and slices, instead of the step back/slash it normally does. If you hold forward on the stick while doing a successful Vision it does the alternate version which is MUCH more powerful.

 

[Masonomace]

1. He is definitely light. But that launch was not normal. Will review footage later, cuz at work now for specific damage and stuff.

2. I had him inhaled, but I either had jump or speed art, so wouldn't have affected anythin, right?

3. Will say for sure once I replay the footage later, but I believe he had the...uh...yellow one.

4. No idea. What the hay is Forward Vision?

5. I shall record it later :3

1. Okay

2. Jump mode (green) reduces your weight, so yes it can definitely make a difference, but you'll have to confirm exactly between which Art you had on at the time.

3. Shield mode (yellow) reduces the damage he deals. It could affect his Vision's Kill power by reducing it, but still it's kind of a small reduction in terms of KnockBack.

4. Forwarded Vision is this:

You know you got hit with a Forward Vision when Shulk dashes straight toward you and slices, instead of the step back/slash it normally does. If you hold forward on the stick while doing a successful Vision it does the alternate version which is MUCH more powerful.

To add-on what I can, Forward Vision is when Shulk slashes the Monado behind him while lunging forward, sort of like a samurai cliche moment. Regular Vision is when Shulk steps back & leaps forward quite a bit of distance swinging his Monado forward in front of him.

5. Thank you.

 

[Berserker.]

IIRC, both normal and forward vision have sweetspots (The base of the monado)

 

[Darklink401]

IIRC, both normal and forward vision have sweetspots (The base of the monado)

Yes, exactly. He hit me with the base and it was murder.

Twice.

this is one of those times.

 

[Berserker.]

Yes, exactly. He hit me with the base and it was murder.

Twice.

this is one of those times.

D'oh I love doing that. Countering Kirby's b-air is glorious

Of all the moves you can counter

 

[Darklink401]

It hurt so much.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Darklink401 Ouch, him having Buster on is damndify. At least your Smash mode went on cool-down to save you the pain & launch speed of 1000mph. Instead your Smash mode disappeared & you only went 500mph.

The one in the video shows the very tip of the Forward Vision. Can't wait to see the base send you flying at 1500mph.

 

[Berserker.]

No. It sends Kirby flying at 299,792,458 meters

I still hate this match up

 

[Masonomace]

Well, if we have to be very close to someone to hit with the tip-area of Forward Vision, then it's probably a given we have to be quite a bit of distance away from someone proc'ing a Vision & doing the Forward version if the Base does connect.

No. It sends Kirby flying at 299,792,458 meters

I still hate this match up

You mean, approximately ~500 pixels per second.
3DS resolution is only 400 x 240 afterall~

And for MU advice, if the Kirby knows it's crouch is amazing & will actually use crouch to evade some moves, don't try stationary grabbing after they avoid the first & second time you attempt grabbing for whatever reason. Perhaps Speed mode pivot grabs could grab a crouching Kirby but yeah. That's my 1 penny. Other than that, I do a lot of retreating SH > B-air when Kirby aproaches with B-air.

 

[LoreLes]

Just going to say this, Shulk's Vision has some random effects sometimes. I've seen sometimes where I will use the forward step Vision and hit someone at 100% but they won't die, then I'll hit someone at 60% and they get destroyed. An example being that I went up against a Yoshi and he was at 60%, countered his Bair and he got launched as if he got hit by the baseball bat.

 

[Darklink401]

Just going to say this, Shulk's Vision has some random effects sometimes. I've seen sometimes where I will use the forward step Vision and hit someone at 100% but they won't die, then I'll hit someone at 60% and they get destroyed. An example being that I went up against a Yoshi and he was at 60%, countered his Bair and he got launched as if he got hit by the baseball bat.

Maybe you hit him with the hilt?

 

[Rakurai]

I find it a little odd that countering someone at zero percent damage with Smash active won't launch them as far as you will without it.

Does the game calculate the damage percent after determining launch distance or something?

 

[Jade_Rock55]

I think it does percent then launch.Shulk has multiple hitboxes on his blade

 

[Masonomace]

Just going to say this, Shulk's Vision has some random effects sometimes. I've seen sometimes where I will use the forward step Vision and hit someone at 100% but they won't die, then I'll hit someone at 60% and they get destroyed. An example being that I went up against a Yoshi and he was at 60%, countered his Bair and he got launched as if he got hit by the baseball bat.

Perhaps because it was the finishing last hit of his B-air? Idk I'd need video footage of what you're talking about. Ofc It does vary what move you're Vision countering, so the first example of the person having 100%, you may have been really close to them & used the Forward input, hitting them with the Tipper area which is the sour-spot.

 

[LoreLes]

Perhaps because it was the finishing last hit of his B-air? Idk I'd need video footage of what you're talking about. Ofc It does vary what move you're Vision countering, so the first example of the person having 100%, you may have been really close to them & used the Forward input, hitting them with the Tipper area which is the sour-spot.

It could be, but Shulk's counter is very inconsistent when it comes to this super launch strength. It works as it should when you counter certain attacks but there are some cases like I've mentioned above. I should of stated that it was just the first hit of his Bair, so it really doesn't make sense. I'll find a way to upload a replay I have of it being weird.