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Super Smash Brothers Brawl Characters

Shiek 84

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
5
This is a little piece I wrote. It was finished before I knew Samurai Goroh would only be an assist trophy.

http://www.heretic-gamer.com/content/view/30/52/

From the Article:

One of the many great pastimes of Nintendo fans is concocting loose blue prints for sequels to their favorite games. That is, to play the role of game designer. I myself have indulged in this hobby on numerous occasions (see: Wii Can Dream). On one level, these pipe dreams are fruitless at best and frustrating at worst. We’re not game designers, we don’t work for Nintendo, our ideas have no impact on the actual product, and the inevitable failure of the real developers to realize our dreams leads us down the road of disappointment. Nevertheless, to abandon the enjoyment of devising theoretical masterpieces to enhance the value of reality's pedestrian experiences is not worthy trade to me.

Creating lineups for Super Smash Brothers is among the favorite undertakings of wannabe game designers (at least of the Nintendo breed). Super Smash Brothers is an immensely open ended franchise that is rife with possibilities and tremendous appeal. Forming lists of characters is simple, easy, and fun. Here is where I must briefly be an *******: I find the vast majority of fan-made character lineups to be unsavory--if not hideous. While it is my hope that this antagonistic stance does not immediately turn you against my list, concealing this sentiment was futile. It is therefore my obligation to explain why so many fan made lineups leave so much to be desired.

This rather infamous Photoshop job easily conveys several issues of many fan lineups. First, the inclusion of non-Nintendo characters was at one time a particularly aggravating offense. Fans less acclimated with the video game industry were unable to distinguish Nintendo mascots from third party or even competing companies. However, with the advent of third party mascots in Brawl, this is no longer of great concern.

Yet, there are other factors that render a majority of fan lineups undesirable. For example, the fallacy that “the more the merrier” is clearly demonstrated in the picture above. Even if we generously assume that every single one of those characters was given enough attention by the developers to make them worthwhile and fun to play (they wouldn’t be), the sheer quantity is overkill. Unless one devoted the totality of his free time to the game, they would never be able to become acquainted with a reasonable fraction of the characters, much less master them.

Some may argue that a massive amount of content in and of itself is nothing to bemoan. Perhaps there is truth to this. But to fall back on this argument in defending the lineup above would be to ignore that many of the characters that compose it are complete ****, regardless of how well they might play. Luke, Darth Vadar, Spider Man, Bond, the Hulk, and Batman may have appeared in video games, but they’re not associated with video games by the general public. Characters like ReDeads, Poes, Goombas, Jinjos, Gorons, Zoras, and Dekus, are obscure secondary characters recognizable only to those who play their games. It must be emphasized that being of “secondary” importance is a far more severe drawback than being obscure; Ness and Mr. Game & Watch were indeed obscure, but they were the primary stars of their respective series. If there did in fact exist concrete boundaries between primary, secondary, and tertiary characters in given video games, a ReDead would be no higher than of quaternary importance. Honestly, what would make a ReDead any better of an addition than a Peahat or a Cucco?

The relationship between a ReDead and a Peahat helps illustrate another logical flaw of many fan lists—one that is potentially harder to grasp. With that said, this specific example is far from the best one and I will therefore not use it. Instead, consider the game Metroid Prime Hunters. One might initially conjecture that the hunters from the game would make ideal candidates for characters in Brawl. Yet, unless you were to include all six, I vehemently disagree. All of the characters are basically equal. To include one and not the others would be not only arbitrary, but imply that they are fundamentally superior somehow. Thus, taken individually, they are very poor candidates indeed; to include one would be illogical and inconsistent, to include all would be just as absurd. The Golden Sun franchise would run into a similar road block, but the way the nature of the characters allows for a sensible solution. As the unquestioned leaders of thier parties, Isaac and Felix are both noticeably more vital than the other adepts. The addition of Isaac in particular is fully logical because of his relative clout. The addition of say, Sheba, on the other hand, would be entirely random and fail to make sense in the least.

There are at least two other pitfalls that fan lists often fall into (note the use of the phrase “at least,” for there are probably others). First, people often seem to disregard the character balance of the game as a whole. That is, they are not cognizant of series representation. They might be really dedicated followers of a specific series such as Mario or Zelda, which will certainly lead them to include a disproportionate amount of characters from one series while neglecting others. My position is that this would be very bad for the game. Smash Brothers is a clash between Nintendo characters—not Zelda characters. Like the United States House of Representatives, it can be tolerated that the bigger states (franchises) have more representation in government (the character lineup), but only to a certain degree. To have ten characters from Mario and only one two or three from every other game would be lame. Instead, there should be a nice, fairly even distribution of characters from several franchises, and I was sure to take this into account in my final list—even if it meant knocking off a few superfluous characters that I might have found neat.

The final pitfall of this analysis is also the most ridiculous (and thus the easiest to grasp). That is, blatant stupidity resulting from a failure to consider the character’s merit beyond a surface level. Arguably the most dubious example from the proposal above is the moon from Majora’s Mask. Now how the **** would that work? How would it move about the screen? How would it attack? How would it be knocked out? Wouldn’t it cover the entire arena and then some? Sure, it might make a decent stage, but come on! No other character from the screenshot can match the absurdity of the moon, but several come fairly close: Navi, Goomba, Dampe, Saria, the Animal Crossing character, et cetera. It is readily apparent that these characters suck not only for the reasons expressed above, but more importantly, because, for various reasons, they wouldn’t work. Navi is too small, a Goomba lacks appendages, Saria is a pacifist, and Dampe would be limited to hitting foes with his shovel.

The bottom line is that this list of characters, while amusing, is fundamentally lacking for too many reasons to bother mentioning and offers no practical indication of where Brawl may be headed. All we can hope is that its author was being humorous. But, though it offers no pragmatic value, I do think it is valuable in showing why so many other proposals go awry, albeit in an exaggerated fashion.

With that, my list (* denotes a character that could work with a proper move set, + denotes a totally revamped move set for a veteran):

Mario Series:
Mario; Luigi; Bowser; Peach; Wario; Baby Bowser; Yoshi; Paper Mario; Birdo*

Zelda Series:
Link; Zelda/Sheik; Ganondorf; Toon shaded Young Link; Zant*; Midna*; Tingle*

Donkey Kong Series:
Donkey Kong; Diddy Kong; King or Captain Krool; Dixie*

F-Zero Series:
Captain Falcon; Samurai Goroh; Black Shadow*

Star Fox Series:
Fox; Falco; Krystal; Wolf* or General Scales*

Kirby Series:
Kirby; Meta Knight; King Dede

Metroid Series
Samus; Zero Suit Samus; Fusion Suit Samus*; Dark Samus*; Ridley*; Significant Hunter from Corruption*

Pokemon Series:
Pikachu; Mewtwo; New Pokemon*, New Pokemon*

Nintendo Traditional RPG Characters:
Ike (Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance); Eirika (Fire Emblem: Sacred Stones); Isaac (Golden Sun); Felix (Golden Sun); possibly an applicable character from Advance Wars.

“Miscellaneous/Gimmick” Characters:
Ness; Pit; Ice Climbers: Captain Olimar*; Little Mac*

Third Party Characters:
Snake (Konami); Sonic (Sega); Mega Man or Viewtiful Joe (Capcom); Cloud or Sora (Square Enix)

Subtractions:
Dr. Mario; Pichu; Mr. Game and Watch; Young Link; Marth; Roy; Jigglypuff

Now for some explanations!

Pending the addition of Birdo (which I do not feel strongly about either way, though I’m leaning towards a no), the Mario series will be represented by eight or nine characters—most in the game. Considering the high quality, highly versatile nature of the series’ mascots, not to mention the fact that it is (in theory) Nintendo’s flagship series, this is okay. I purposely omitted Waluigi because I felt he was a boring character with little potential and noticeably subservient to Wario anyway. I’m also not fond of Luigi, but to omit him would be offensive to some. I would like the developers to revamp his move set to further differentiate him from Mario (cloned characters were all too common in Melee), but this might be difficult. They are brothers with similar abilities and anatomy, so it is understandable if they remain clones (at the very least, equipping him with the poltergeist 3000—useful for collecting items quickly—might be cool). The substitution of Paper Mario for Dr. Mario is a beneficial one; Paper Mario will not merely function as another clone. He will transform into a paper airplane to return to the stage and use his hammer and other unique abilities in combat. The other addition is Baby Bowser. I think he is significant enough to include and offers a number of move possibilities. He should boast his handkerchief and paint brush from Mario Sunshine and his “final Smash” could be to summon a giant Bowser in the background that would pummel the stage with projectiles (ala Yoshi’s Island).

The Zelda series will be the recipient of a makeover as well. Ganondorf, as Link, will be portrayed in his Twilight Princess model. More importantly, he will no longer be a shameless clone of Captain Falcon. He will not only wield a badass blade, but be able to send out balls of energy as in Ocarina of Time (though he should maintain his Warlock punch as it fits his character well). Young Link will be portrayed in his toon shaded Wind Waker model. A speed character, his movement will be fluid and quick—a very fun character to play. He will use the Deku Leaf as his recovery move, and his bombs would explode with cel-shaded wonder!

Zant and Midna, the stars of Twilight Princess, are both appealing characters that would grant the developers a fair amount of freedom. Being magical sorcerers in and of itself makes them potentially versatile additions—the developers would not necessarily be restricted by the game they’re from. However, there are a few decisions that must be made. First, would Midna ride Wolf Link or be her own character? Determining this will go a long way in shaping her move set. Secondly, I feel it would be awkward to include one and not the other; therefore, I believe the developers ought to either include both OR Tingle. My bet is that most fans would prefer the former. Including all three would give legendary franchise seven characters and a huge boost from the previous outing. This could help the game seem less “Mario-centric” or it could further reduce the impact of other series.

The Donkey Kong series was obviously in need of greater representation. The most obvious remedy is the addition of Diddy Kong. I envision him equipped with his Peanut Pop Guns, orange grenades, and jetpack from Donkey Kong 64. His tail would be his primary close range weapon. KRool is also an attractive addition—a character from the DK series that is not a primate. The rest of the gang from DK64—Lanky, Tiny, Chunky—are all basically equal, so it makes no sense to include one with the others, and I sure as hell wouldn’t want all of them! Dixie makes slightly more sense, but she is a long shot character. Imagining her return to the stage with her hair twirl is very appealing to me, but this alone does not warrant her entry to the brawl.

F-Zero is undoubtedly a lesser Nintendo franchise, so perhaps to include both Samurai Goroh and Black Shadow would be exorbitant and unbefitting of the franchise’s actual weight. At the very least, I believe Goroh deserves entry. He is a cool looking big character in a game that is short of cool looking big characters. I could see him as a formidable close range fighter, possibly sharing a few moves with Captain Falcon (which is obviously far more logical than Falcon sharing moves with Ganondorf). He could also wield a blade.

Krystal is a common sense addition from another underrepresented franchise. I like her because she has good move potential due to her staff. She could use it to ground-pound; to shoot fireballs; to spray ice; in melee; and to burst herself upward in recovery. Wolf and General Scales are other remote possibilities that could work assuming they had decent move sets. Because it is likely that Fox and Falco will remain relative clones, Wolf should not be added unless he provides a sufficiently original frame. General Scales, on the other hand, is a completely open ended character since we never saw him in actual combat in Star Fox Adventures (which was bull**** by the way).

It is already confirmed that Kirby will be getting a much deserved boost from Meta Knight. You would think that Hal (the studio that develops Smash Bros and Kirby) would want a better showing from their own series! Meta Knight looks to be an awesome character and perhaps my favorite confirmed newcomer. King Dede, as probably the second most recognizable Kirby mascot, is another common sense addition. He will lend some physical strength to team Kirby, though there might be concerns regarding his move set.

The Metroid series is the biggest question mark of all and pondering its place in Brawl has frustrated me on many occasions. On one hand, ignoring sales, Metroid is likely the third most adored Nintendo franchise behind Mario and Zelda (Pokemon caters to a different crowd). On the other, it is a series that is mostly devoid of personalities and characters and thus very challenging to represent accordingly in Super Smash Brothers. There are a number of different approaches to improve Metroid’s standing, but none of them seem quite satisfactory to me. Zero Suit Samus is a start, but in some ways, I’d almost prefer to have her be a second form of power suit Samus much the way that Sheik is a second form of Zelda. It is decidedly awkward to have two of the same character (even if they’re in different forms). But, if we accept that there will be two, is it much greater of a stretch for there to be three or four? Fusion Suit Samus could be a quicker, less powerful version of Power Suit Samus, but also wield superior “diffusion” missiles. Or, might there be an important hunter from Corruption that would be an attractive candidate? What about Ridley? Combing through the entire Metroid series that dates back all the way to 1986, Samus’s long time adversary is possibly the only adequate character besides Samus herself! The other long time adversaries—Kraid and Motherbrain—are simply too large to be feasible, Dark Samus and the SA-X are merely redundant forms of the Samus model, and I’ve already addressed why I feel looking to the hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters for fresh blood is a huge mistake. Ridley is the best option, but I’m continually stumped in devising a good move set for him. First, the question must be asked, what of his wings? He can fly. This poses a serious problem. Secondly, his physical size would need to be trimmed down substantially to make him fit plausibly in with the other characters—this, however, is doable. To be truthful, I’m interested to see what the developers come up with.

I must confess that I am no longer familiar with the Pokemon franchise. I am totally ignorant of all Pokemon released after Gold and Silver. Yet, though I have a strong distaste with the lackluster designs of many of the newer generations of Pokemon, I acknowledge the need to update characters to better represent the modern games. What I mean to say is that, whatever new Pokemon those still acquainted with the series deem “best” or “most popular” (probably either the legendary Pokemon or cutesy easily recognized Pokemon—ideally one each) should be added to replace the defunct Pichu and less than useful Jigglypuff. I personally enjoy Mewtwo’s move set and physics, but am not entirely against ditching him to implement a more symmetric distribution of Pokemon throughout its history. That is, a single Pokmon to represent each of the four generations of new releases—it is obviously mandatory that Pikachu represent the first generation. Togepi or Celebii might be good options for the second. After that, I am at a loss. Finally, to lessen the blow of Jigglypuff’s omission (which might anger those who have taken a liking to her clumsy but devastating “rest” attack) one of the new Pokemon must be endowed with a similar ability. Again, Togepii might be a good bet.

Nintendo’s anime stars will also be given a shot in the arm with the entry of Golden Sun characters. I am a huge advocate of the Golden Sun series. I liked the chance of Isaac and Felix making an appearance even before third party characters were announced, and now, I’d like to think that at least one of them is a certainty. They will naturally play similar not only to one another, but their Fire Emblem counterparts (along with being able to use Djinns and earth based psynergy). The Fire Emblem characters, which in effect are to replace Marth and Roy, were simply extracted from the more recent Fire Emblem games. These are all very elegant characters. Less elegant, and frankly, less of a possibility, though certainly not an impossibility, would be the surprise appearance of a character from the Advance Wars series. Yet again, I must confess that I have never played an Advanced Wars game, but it is still a reasonably successful Nintendo series and probably deserves more attention than it has gotten. It there is an applicable character, I’d like to see them.

Then we come to the little known characters who hail from obscure franchises. Ness is in need of a tune up. He is a fun to play and it is not hard to see what Hal had in mind for him, but the execution was not their. He needs to be made more competitive. Pit, who is confirmed and whom I called on even before he was revealed, looks to be coming along fine—he’ll be one of the first characters I try out. Captain Olimar, in all honesty, will be difficult to figure into the equation. I love the Pikmin franchise and happen to be a huge proponent of its expansion and shoehorning Olimar in might give it a stimulus. Unfortunately, it is quite hard indeed to envision a pragmatic move set for him. I predict him ending up either too weak or too strong, ultimately throwing off the balance of the game as a whole. Still, I remain optimistic that Hal will find a way to incorporate him in an effective manner. Finally, summed up, Little Mac (or any number of other forgotten NES characters) could be Brawl’s Mr. Game and Watch—more of a novelty than anything else.

And what about the advent of third party characters? Initially, I was upset about it, but have sense opened up to the idea. Nevertheless, my position, and presumably the position of a majority of Nintendo fans, is that they should nowhere near equal the Nintendo mascots in number. A small handful will suffice. Ideally, to continue with my theme of symmetry, I’d like to see exactly one mascot from between four and six companies. Snake, Konami’s most famous mascot, is confirmed. Sonic is the only sane choice from Sega. I have never been an avid fan of Square Enix, but I know others are crazy about them. I threw out a few suggestions, but almost any major character from any Final Fantasy will do the trick for me. Sora from Kingdom Hearts is another interesting option. Capcom poses a problem; there are two excellent and relevant candidates from them—Mega Man and Viewtiful Joe. This is a dilemma. Do we limit ourselves to just one or the other, or do we include both at the expense of appealing symmetry? (not to mention showing favoritism) Other reasonable candidates are Ubi Soft’s Rayman and Namco’s Pacman.

If every single character under my plan were to be included, the total would come to 57, which would an over twofold increase over Melee (though barely a half of the ridiculous proposal from earlier). This grand total would not only put tremendous strain on the developers, but overwhelm players as well. However, when we take into account that I assigned disclaimers on many of the above characters, we arrive at a more realistic figure of hovering around the mid forties. This is still a massive leap from Melee. The fact that I call for fewer clones only sharpens the disparity. While I do concede I doubt they’ll reach this number in reality, I will still contend that they could and in fact should. Brawl is a massive undertaking. Numerous developers are on board. It is the game, more than any other, that can perpetuate Wii’s success for a generation. At the same time, it is largely based on a gameplay system that was made famous almost a decade ago. If the system is undergoing mere tweaks (as it seems to be), what better aspect for the developers to focus on then delivering an unprecedented amount of content—characters included—to fully realize a brawl to end all others?
It is rather lengthy. That tends to happen when I start writing. Anyway, your thouhts?
 

Vali

Smash Ace
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
721
Zant, Tingle, Paper Mario, Birdo, Dixie, Metroid Hunter, Cloud/Sora


There ya go.
 

Bassoonist

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
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NNID
WoodwindsRock
3DS FC
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It's a well thought out list, but I just can't really see Birdo and Tingle as playable characters. That would just be odd.
 

Conker1

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 7, 2001
Messages
602
Location
Florida
I read your rant on people's ****ty lists. I thought you may actually make a good list.

But that was the most piss poor list I have ever read. Seriously.

Paper Mario, Tingle, Zant, Sora, Cloud, 4 types of Samus, Black Shadow, K Rool, Zant, Midna, Cel-Link, Birdo, Baby Bowser, Mega Man, Viewtiful Joe, and then you eliminate ALL FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS and Mr. Game and Watch.

What the **** man?
 

Viroxor

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
803
Location
On the precipice of victory
The list was decent. Definitely not the worst I've ever seen. Some things about it were kind of ridiculous, though.

You disclaim the 'more the merrier' theory, yet you end up with a list of about 57, mainly because you included minor and/or secondary characters hardly recognizable to the outside (something you also claimed to have a problem with) and 4 types of Samus? No, not going to happen.

I'm referring to characters like Birdo, Tingle, and General Scales. Birdo is not a very well-known character, because, with due respect, most would identify her as 'girl Yoshi'. Tingle...I don't even know who Tingle is, I just know a lot of people think he's gay, which is not a good thing for a Brawl candidate. And General Scales, as you said, was never seen in combat, is presumed dead, and was only in one game.

So the list is in definite need of down-sizing, although I agree with you about less clones and all things related to that topic. Then there's Samurai Goroh, everyone knows he got AT'd, and no-one likes Black Shadow very much, it appears, so Pico would probably get the F-Zero spot alongside the Cap'n.

I disagree about Falco being a Fox clone again. He's a cool and original character who deserves better than that, and he's a bird, for crying out loud. Bird does not=fox. Wolf is probably getting the last spot, after Fox, Falco, and Krystal. Scales is out for the reasons I mentioned above.

I agreed with all the Metroid stuff until you said we need four different Samuses. That's more ridiculous than all the hunters from MPH. Note, I don't want the hunters from MPH, I just think it could make more sense than all four Samuses.

Donkey Kong, I'm not a fan, but I know it's popular and all that, so it probably could get all the said reps, except Dixie. I think that's stepping over the line.

That concludes my rant evaluation. Don't listen to me, I'm an idiot/jerk today.
 

Shiek 84

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
5
Note the astericies. I think some of you didn't take into consideration that I put disclaimers on several of the characters. There is a lot of speculation here. I definitely would not want all of those characters in the game. If the character has an asterisk by its name, it meant that it might work with a proper move set and if other such characters were omitted. I didn't put them there for no reason at all . . .

For example, about Birdo, I mention right in the article that . . .

Pending the addition of Birdo (which I do not feel strongly about either way, though I’m leaning towards a no),
And about the multiple versions of Samus, I specifically say having four would be weird . . . this was written before it was confirmed ZSS and Samus were one character--and I simply suggested that if we were to have two forms of the same character, three or four might not be any worse. Even so, I still believe Ridley is the best candidate from the Metroid series, though I have a feeling he is going to be made an assist trophy now.

In short, an asterisk denotes that I wouldn't totally object to a certain character--that I felt they were worth mentioning, but a character that I would be leery about nonetheless. True, if we took every single character I mentioned, we'd be around sixty. However, if I trimmed down the astericked characters reasonably . . . I'd probably cut out:

Birdo
Tingle
Zant (possibly keep Midna, she is has decent notoriety)
Dixie (the thought of her spinning her way back to the stage seemed cool, but otherwise, she's not significant enough).
Black Shadow (I don't like him either. I just figured he was third in line for F-Zero)
Wolf
General Scales (wasn't enthusiastic about either of them. Not a huge fan of Star Fox--Krystal can stay, she'd make a good character)
Dark Samus (Frankly, I hate Dark Samus)
Fusion Samus (Hopefully, there is a good candidate from Corruption. Ridley also stays)
*I'm out of touch with Pokemon, but I still like the idea of one representative for every generation.
*Little Mac (Olimar gets the nod over him--hopefully they could devise a workable move set)

I also like my choices for third parties.

So, assuming this, the total drops to between 40 and 45. Not all that unbelievable.

ALL FIRE EMBLEM CHARACTERS and Mr. Game and Watch.
No I didn't. I replaced them with more modern characters. Granted, I am not a follower of the series, but Fire Emblem characters are not instantly recognizable among mainstream gamers anyway, so I saw it as an opportunity to get fresh blood in there. To my understanding, most Fire Emblems star new characters--they're not like Mario and Zelda and Metroid. Anyhow, the new characters--Ike and Erika--would play very much like Roy and Marth.

And Mr. Game and Watch is a novelty character. I don't think he is needed again.
 

Viroxor

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
803
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On the precipice of victory
Yeah, I didn't really account for a lot of the astericks, which was my bad. I still disagree about
Ridley being an assist trophy, though. I think he'll be playable. And I believe Wolf has a chance, since wolves appear to be extremely popular with people, and he himself is a popular character and Fox's ideal opposite. Besides that, the Star Fox series does need some kind of antagonist character, and Andross would have the same problems as the Moon and Kraid, simply being too big and limb-less to be a PC. He would be a cool AT, though.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
...

Good god are you insane?

Where do i start... ok Fusion Suit Samus? she would be a costume NOT a character, waste of space. Ridley? Hell yes, he should be in and i'm sure he will be in. Dark Samus, well she could be inm but i doubt it, maybe in Smash 4.

And about the Hunters? The hunters would be a waste of space, because all know Ridley>D.Samus>Hunters.

Zant and Midna? Ok... i hope not, if Midna get's in fine, but Zant? Zant sucks, it was Ganondorf all along! Long Live Ganondorf!.

And about tingle... F uck no.

DK, although i would be happy to see K. K. Rool in there, it might not happen, but i'm sure Diddi would get in Brawl.

About the Starfox Series, seriously General Scales would NEVER appear in Brawl. And you think the inclusion of Wolf has "remote possibilities" that's stupid, we have Fox, Falco and probably Krystal, that's 3 heroes for the same Franchinse, Wolf is pretty much a given.

Now here is where the things get ugly:

"anime chars"

Ok, you screwed up big time here. Do you really think Golden Sun is better than FE? That's madness(yeah yeah Sparta).

Although i like the Golden Sun games, i'm pretty sure they're crap compared to FE, and now with the new FE game coming out in the Wii, i'm pretty sure Ike is in Brawl, and i hope the Black Knight get's in.

And for the Advance Wars characters, they COULD be Assist Trophies, nothing more.

And i think that's all.
 

PrettyGoodYear

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 1, 2007
Messages
1,792
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Panama, Panama, Central America...
and less than useful Jigglypuff
I was going to read the whole thing. You lost me there. Even when you later defended your decision to cut 'Puff off due to her only good move being Rest, and that people only play her because of that. WRONG. People can go through entire matches without using it. And sure, it's fun to own people with it, but there is much, much more to Jigglypuff.
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
You should make a new list and follow your own logic. You brought up excellent points, but then churned out a list, that quite honestly, looks alot like other boring and stale lists on this site.

Birdo and Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. borrow from other characters. Yoshi, Mario, and Bowser respectively (even if Birdo came before Yoshi).

None of those three should make it.

Brawl is a game about innovation and fun. That means diverse movesets, diverse stats, and diverse abilities. Yes, it is also a fan service game, but that does not mean every ppular character should make it in.

Samurai Goroh is a villain to Captain Falcon but he offers nothing new. Deoxys is basically Mewtwo with an overly complex morphing ability that would bog down the game. And they are ATs probably because of this.

I think Sakurai is reaching for new heights.

Having Fox, Wolf, and Falco in the same game is redundant. They have simlar training, use similar weapons, have similar occupations, ect. Wolf and Fox have nearly the same anatomy. Why waste a character slot wth a redundant character?

And the Metroid series can only really support Ridley. Maybe a hunter, but that would be usurping a space for another franchise and the hunters are not that mportant right now.

I say make another list limiting yourself to 40 characters and follow your own guidelines.
 

Viroxor

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
803
Location
On the precipice of victory
I've debated the Fox, Wolf, and Falco thing with you before. Fox is the only one known to have had official 'training'. Falco was in a gang, and Wolf, we have no idea.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Having Fox, Wolf, and Falco in the same game is redundant. They have simlar training, use similar weapons, have similar occupations, ect. Wolf and Fox have nearly the same anatomy. Why waste a character slot wth a redundant character?

And the Metroid series can only really support Ridley. Maybe a hunter, but that would be usurping a space for another franchise and the hunters are not that mportant right now.
You make good Points Bowserlick, however i disagree.

Anatomy has nothing to do here, look at Link and Marth, they have the same kind of anatomy and both are swordsman, yet they play very diferent, the question is "why?".

It's not because they're from diferent franchises, it's because the Characters are diferent, Link uses all sorts of Gadgets, while Marth is just a swordsman.

The same applies to Fox/Wolf.

Fox is more of a sophisticated Soldier, with a Gun and gadgets like the Reflector, While Wolf, i belive is more of a Savage warrior, i would expect him to have a machine gun of some sorts and a knife, and i would expect him to fight with more heavy and brutal attacks than Fox.

Also Fox is small and skinny, Wolf is big and muscular. Also Wolf is the only Star Fox Villain that would deserve a post in Brawl. I know you support Andross, but let's be fair, he whont be a Playable Character now that ATs exist.

And about the Metroid Characters, like i sayd, Ridley>D. Samus>MPH Hunter that's the priority, at least i doubt a hunter get's in before D. Samus. I even think He/She/It has a chance of beig in Brawl with the release of MP 3 so soon, and He/She/It being the main Enemy again.

Edit:

I sort off remember Wolf whas James Mc Cloud friend and companion, thus i assume he has the same training as Fox.

Have you whatched Goldeneye? I think Fox is like Bond while Wolf is like Janus(or whatever his name was).
 

Bassoonist

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,684
NNID
WoodwindsRock
3DS FC
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Bowserlick, I think Paper Mario would be a great addition. There are several things they could do that wouldn't make him a clone of Mario.

Also, regardless of whether Fire Emblem is "better" then Golden Sun, or not. Isaac would make a great addition into SSBB. He could have an awesome moveset.
 

Viroxor

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
803
Location
On the precipice of victory
@Shuma: No, James McCloud's friends/wingmates were Peppy and Pigma (who betrayed them to Andross and joined Star Wolf).

I can be considered a Star Fox fanboy, as much as I hate the title, so I let no wrong facts slip past me. Would you let it go if I stated a wrong fact about one of your favorite series? Well, I can't, regardless, so...
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Isacc would, but giving the axe to all the FE characters because of Golden sun characters is baaaaaad.
 

Phaazoid

Basket
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This is a little piece I wrote. It was finished before I knew Samurai Goroh would only be an assist trophy.

http://www.heretic-gamer.com/content/view/30/52/

From the Article:




It is rather lengthy. That tends to happen when I start writing. Anyway, your thouhts?
my argument

ridley could easily be implemented. check out what gypsy lee wrote

"http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=2485517&postcount=1897
And what about the advent of third party characters? Initially, I was upset about it, but have sense opened up to the idea. Nevertheless, my position, and presumably the position of a majority of Nintendo fans, is that they should nowhere near equal the Nintendo mascots in number. A small handful will suffice. Ideally, to continue with my theme of symmetry, I’d like to see exactly one mascot from between four and six companies. Snake, Konami’s most famous mascot, is confirmed. Sonic is the only sane choice from Sega. I have never been an avid fan of Square Enix, but I know others are crazy about them. I threw out a few suggestions, but almost any major character from any Final Fantasy will do the trick for me. Sora from Kingdom Hearts is another interesting option. Capcom poses a problem; there are two excellent and relevant candidates from them—Mega Man and Viewtiful Joe. This is a dilemma. Do we limit ourselves to just one or the other, or do we include both at the expense of appealing symmetry? (not to mention showing favoritism) Other reasonable candidates are Ubi Soft’s Rayman and Namco’s Pacman."

sakurai said there would be at most 2 other third party characters other than snake. Square enix's rep would be geno, sonic is segas. megaman might be in instead of geno. those are the most popular third party characters

"The Metroid series is the biggest question mark of all and pondering its place in Brawl has frustrated me on many occasions. On one hand, ignoring sales, Metroid is likely the third most adored Nintendo franchise behind Mario and Zelda (Pokemon caters to a different crowd). On the other, it is a series that is mostly devoid of personalities and characters and thus very challenging to represent accordingly in Super Smash Brothers. There are a number of different approaches to improve Metroid’s standing, but none of them seem quite satisfactory to me. Zero Suit Samus is a start, but in some ways, I’d almost prefer to have her be a second form of power suit Samus much the way that Sheik is a second form of Zelda. It is decidedly awkward to have two of the same character (even if they’re in different forms). But, if we accept that there will be two, is it much greater of a stretch for there to be three or four? Fusion Suit Samus could be a quicker, less powerful version of Power Suit Samus, but also wield superior “diffusion” missiles. Or, might there be an important hunter from Corruption that would be an attractive candidate? What about Ridley? Combing through the entire Metroid series that dates back all the way to 1986, Samus’s long time adversary is possibly the only adequate character besides Samus herself! The other long time adversaries—Kraid and Motherbrain—are simply too large to be feasible, Dark Samus and the SA-X are merely redundant forms of the Samus model, and I’ve already addressed why I feel looking to the hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters for fresh blood is a huge mistake. Ridley is the best option, but I’m continually stumped in devising a good move set for him. First, the question must be asked, what of his wings? He can fly. This poses a serious problem. Secondly, his physical size would need to be trimmed down substantially to make him fit plausibly in with the other characters—this, however, is doable. To be truthful, I’m interested to see what the developers come up with."

dark samus, though has a samus type body, is entirly different form samus. dark samus is the final boss of prime 1, fused with your phazon suit. dark samus has no morph ball. dark samus has no missiles. there is no zero suit dark samus. dark samus shoots phazon, has a shield, can dematerialize, can control and generate phazon. this could easily result in an entirly different character. but in my opinion, ridley is better, and scored second on sakurais poll, tied with diddy kong and krystal. very popular character, as the prime series is very unpopular in japan, and this was a japanese poll. and about size, Sakurai already made a 3d character model for ridley. it was a trophy in melee. it was ridley's first 3d model. ever.

"it's been confirmed that the max amount of characters is 50.
If every single character under my plan were to be included, the total would come to 57, which would an over twofold increase over Melee (though barely a half of the ridiculous proposal from earlier). This grand total would not only put tremendous strain on the developers, but overwhelm players as well. However, when we take into account that I assigned disclaimers on many of the above characters, we arrive at a more realistic figure of hovering around the mid forties. This is still a massive leap from Melee. The fact that I call for fewer clones only sharpens the disparity. While I do concede I doubt they’ll reach this number in reality, I will still contend that they could and in fact should. Brawl is a massive undertaking. Numerous developers are on board. It is the game, more than any other, that can perpetuate Wii’s success for a generation. At the same time, it is largely based on a gameplay system that was made famous almost a decade ago. If the system is undergoing mere tweaks (as it seems to be), what better aspect for the developers to focus on then delivering an unprecedented amount of content—characters included—to fully realize a brawl to end all others?"

and your list of characters not to return, i think that sakurai will cut only direct clones, as yl, doc, pichu, marth or roy. falco and ganondorf will be redone. no more clones will be put in, but no more characters will leave.

i mainly agree with everything else you say.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
Ridley is the best option, but I’m continually stumped in devising a good move set for him. First, the question must be asked, what of his wings? He can fly. This poses a serious problem. Secondly, his physical size would need to be trimmed down substantially to make him fit plausibly in with the other characters—this, however, is doable. To be truthful, I’m interested to see what the developers come up with.
Stumped, eh?

STATISTICS

Jump: *****

Ridley can't jump very high, but the amount of jumps he has more than makes up for it. Ridley's first jump is average when compared to other characters. His second jump is quite mediocre, too. But, it doesn't stop at just two jumps. Like Kirby, Jigglypuff, Metaknight, and Pit, Ridley has multiple jumps. With each flap of his wings, he is carried a little higher, though they decrease in height with each consecutive jump. He maxes out at 6 jumps, including his initial "ground" jump.

Size: *****

Let me get this out of the way right now - Ridley's a beast. He's so big and ripped, that Sakurai is going to have to shrink him down to the size of a small adult elephant, so that he may compete 'fairly' against the puny humanoid characters in Brawl.

Weight: *****

Not only is Ridley a beast, Ridley is a tank. His lardy a** is tied with Bowser for heaviest character, making him difficult to knock off stage. This, combined with his great recovery, makes for a long day for your opponent.

Speed: **

Ridley has a speedy straight ahead dash, however, his size and lanky build hurt his agility. This causes for, overall, laggy moves. He isn't as slow as say, Bowser, but he sure isn't no Fox by any means.

Strength: ***

Ridley isn't as strong as you'd expect him to be. His arms are long, slender and weak. Ridley usually carries things with his feet or in his mouth, making for slow, awkward uses of items. In combat, he relies on his powerful jaws and strong dagger-like tail. He seldom uses his arms, maybe for an occassional swipe at the enemy.

Recovery: *****

Armed with several jumps, the ability to glide, and fireballs to preoccupy edge guarders, Ridley is extremely hard to keep off stage. Ridley's opponents must put their blood, sweat, and tears into each KO.

Fall Speed: ***

Ridley is large and heavy, yes. But, Ridley is also a pterodactyl/dragon, meaning he can fly, meaning he should be somewhat floaty. These two confinscate for one another, making him neither a floaty, nor a fast faller. He should be somewhere around average.

Comboability: *

Ridley is not about combos. Ridley is about run-and-gun deals, in which he comes in for an attack every now and then until the other player's damage is at a high percentage. At this point, Ridley comes in for the kill.

KOability: ***

Ridley is good at KOing the opponent at high percentages, though only at high percentages. He has a few satisfactory kill moves that get the job done when the opportunity comes.

Coolness Factor: ************************************************** *************************

I could give him a higher rating, but you get the point.



GROUND ATTACKS

Neutral A Combo

Name: Double Bite
Damage: Low
Knockback: Low
Lag: Moderate
Range: Moderate
Duration: Short-Moderate
Hits: 2
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley reaches his head out for a quick bite at the enemy. If the 'A' button is pressed a second time, Ridley will then stretch out his neck and twist his head for a second, more powerful bite.


Forward Tilt

Name: Tail Slash
Damage: Low
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Low
Range: Long
Duration: Short
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley spins around and swings his tail in front of him, slicing the opponent. Much like Mewtwo's Forward Tilt, except with more reach and slightly more knockback. This move is effective for edge guarding, or keeping an attacker at bay.


Up Tilt

Name: Headbutt
Damage: Low
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Moderate
Range: Low
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley yanks his head upwards and hits the player in the air with his snout. It has some lag, but is hard to miss with, so Ridley is hardly ever open to a counter attack unless he completely wiffs. This move is good for juggling an opponent, but not much else.


Down Tilt

Name: Ankle Bite
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: High
Lag: High
Range: Moderate
Duration: Short
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley crouches down on all fours and bites at the enemy. This move deals good damage and knocks your opponent far back, but due to lag, it leaves you open to attack afterward.


Dash Attack

Name: Dragon Claws
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: Low
Lag: Moderate
Range: Low
Duration: Long
Hits: 4
Effect: None

Description:

Whilst running, Ridley furiously slashes at the opponent 4 times, twice with each claw. Punishable, (as most dash attacks are) but useful nonetheless. This attack may be used as an alternative approach to Ridley's Forward B.


Forward Smash

Name: Devastating Chomp
Damage: High
Knockback: High
Lag: High
Range: Long
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley lunges at the opposing player with his mouth wide open and crunches them with his powerful jaws. This move is laggy and highly punishable, but is a powerful smash with long reach, making for a satisfactory finisher.


Up Smash

Name: Wing Strike
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Moderate
Range: Long
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley leans to his right, looking over his left shoulder, and swings open his left wing at the player above him. It's a decent smash overall, but it serves no particular purpose as far as edge guarding, KOs, etc.


Down Smash

Name: Tail Sweep
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: Very High
Lag: Moderate
Range: Long
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

This is Ridley's signature tail sweep. Ridley spins and sweeps his tail across the ground on both sides of him. The player hit is sent at a near horizontal trajectory. It is devastatingly powerful and is easily his greatest kill move.


AERIAL ATTACKS


Neutral Aerial

Name: Wing Spin
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: Low
Lag: Very Low
Range: Low
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1-3
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley spins twice in the air with his wings spread out to his sides. It is great for knocking away another aerial opponent on either side of you.


Forward Aerial

Name: Claw Swipes
Damage: Low
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Moderate
Range: Low
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 2
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley swings one of his claws and then the other at the player in front of him. Both swipes do the same knockback and damage, so hitting with either one will send the opponent flying.


Backward Aerial

Name: Back Slash
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: High
Lag: Low
Range: Low
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley spins around to his right, with his left claw reached out to his side, and slashes at the player behind him. It sends them at a horizontal trajectory, and it's accompanied by an awesome slashing sound. :cool:


Up Aerial

Name: Overhead Bite
Damage: High
Knockback: Low
Lag: Moderate
Range: Moderate
Duration: Short
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley looks up and quickly snaps at the enemy above. This move is very damaging, but by no means is it powerful.


Down Aerial

Name: Head Splitter
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Moderate
Range: Long
Duration: Short
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley's meteor strike. Ridley pulls his wings and arms back (as if to give some one a hug), looks down at his victim, and then swings his tail from right to left. It can, like most meteor strikes, be meteor canceled. Otherwise, it's a fast, deadly move.


SPECIAL ATTACKS

Neutral B

Name: Fireball
Damage: Very Low
Knockback: Very Low
Lag: Moderate
Range: Very Long
Duration: Long
Hits: 3
Effect: Fire Damage/Stun

Description:

Ridley shoots a bright orange fireball from his mouth (a slighty bigger and elongated version of Mario's) that travels at about the same speed and distance as that of Samus' missles. It scores 3 hits on whomever it comes in contact with, each dealing about 2% damage. It has little knockback, but stops the opponent in his tracks because of the "fire stun" (like being hit by Young Links arrows). Ridley can also fire them in the air, and are aim able at three different trajectories:



The fireballs are sub-par as far as damage and knockback standards go, but when combined with the ability to shoot them in barrages while flying over an opponent, they become a very versatile and useful projectile.


Up B

Name: Dragon Flight
Damage: N/A
Knockback: N/A
Lag: Very Low
Range: N/A
Duration: Very Long
Hits: N/A
Effect: Ridley is granted infinite jumps for 5 seconds

Description:

Ridley's is granted temporary flight for a several seconds, allowing him to recover or maneuver freely in the air for a short time. Upon activation, Ridley's eyes glow a bright, fiery orange. For the last few seconds of the move's duration, the light from his eyes flickers off and on until eventually, the light fades and they return to normal, signifying that the move has ended. When this happens, Ridley gives a last, hopeless shriek and tumbles to his doom, or until he touches solid ground, or until he is hit again.

The move can be automatically canceled by performing another move before it is over, such as a Fireball. It can even be transitioned into a glide, allowing for aerial strikes with bombardments of fireballs on pesky edge guarders.


Forward B

Name: Relentless Charge/Glide
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: High
Lag: High
Range: Long
Duration: Long
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley quickly pulls his head back, screams, and gallops forward with an open mouth and claws. Right before hitting the opponent, Ridley closes his mouth and lowers his head. Upon contact, he thrusts his head and body forward, knocking the opponent back a good distance. During the duration of the charge, Ridley is completely invincible to projectiles, direct attacks, etc. Hence the name: Relentless Charge. Although recognizeable by the scream, the start up of the move is fairly quick and can be difficult to predict. However, the ending lag is very noticeable. After traveling approximately the distance as Falcon's Raptor Boost, Ridley falls over in a similar fashion. Thus, making this move easily punishable when missed. Also, the charge itself is a tad bit sluggish, but is made up for by the invincibility frames. This move is best used in close quarters, or when the opponent is projectile happy.

In the air, instead of charging forward, Ridley swoops forward a short distance and opens his wings, allowing him to glide. During this move, Ridley can perform any aerial attacks. All of his special moves have a different effect while gliding. He can shoot fireballs at different angles, he can rain plasma breath on foes below, and he can even fly directly out of his glide (in the event that he hasn't used is previously, of course). Ridley continues to glide for a short time, or until he touches the ground. The trajectory of his decent is around 30 degrees less than horizontal, (or 90 degrees) so he falls rather slowly.


Down B

Name: Plasma Spew
Damage: High
Knockback: Low
Lag: High
Range: Long
Duration: Moderate
Hits: Multiple
Effect: Fire Damage/Stun

Description:

Ridley crouches down on all fours in a "ready to attack" position (similar to how cats and dogs do) then draws his head back, opens his mouth, and spews plasma ahead of him. As he does so, he motions his head from side to side, as if spreading the flames all over (but it can't be seen unless you pause the game and turn the camera angle). It works in a way that is very similar to that of Bowser's Fire Breath. Ridley keeps a steady flow of plasma going for a short while (continuing to move his head back and forth also) until the ever shrinking flames die down to a tiny spark, and then to nothing at all. There's a bit of lag at the beginning and end of the move to watch out for when using it.

Whilst gliding, Ridley performs an aim able version of the attack, just like the fireballs. The properties of the move remain the same, however, he only makes one motion of his head, and then the move is finished.


Final Smash

Name: Plasma Beam
Damage: Very High
Knockback: Very Low
Lag: N/A
Range: Very Long
Duration: Very Long (between 20-25 seconds)
Hits: Multiple
Effect: Fire Damage/Stun

Description:

Ridley's eyes glow, and he is surrounded by the Final Smash's signature orange aura. He lets out a screech as he swoops into the air. As Ridley hovers high in the air, he pulls back his head and slowly opens his mouth. A bright light begins forming in Ridley's mouth. Then, suddenly, he lets out an unnerving shreik as a thick red beam of plasma shoots from his mouth. When it first crashes into the stage, flames burst all around it. The move is a continuing beam of plasma, and is fully aimable, allowing Ridley to direct it over the other players. When it hits an opponent, they are stunned a bit, (from the fire, like in Melee) and as long as they are under the beam, their damage sky rockets. (Probably around 25% a second). However, the move has no knockback, exept for when the laser initially hits. Small trails of flames (from where the beam has been) last for a few seconds, dealing some damage to anyone who walks into them. During the whole move, Ridley is far out of the reach of anyone, and is only able to be hit via projectile. When this happens, Ridley is briefly interrupted, but quickly continues the move again until it is finished. If the projectile has no knockback, (i.e. Fox's lasers) then Ridley is damaged by it, but not interrupted.



MISCELLANEOUS


Grab Attack

Name: Vicious Bites
Damage: Very Low
Knockback: N/A
Lag: N/A
Range: N/A
Duration: Very Short
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley, holding the opponent in a death grip right in front of his face, bites at the poor soul caught in his clutches.


Forward Throw

Name: Ruthless Toss
Damage: Moderate
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Moderate
Range: N/A
Duration: Long
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley pulls his victim to his hip, holding them firmly in his grasp. Then, with a horrendous screech, he gallops forward and launches the opponent ahead of him.

Backward Throw

Name: Behemoth Slam
Damage: High
Knockback: Low
Lag: Moderate
Range: N/A
Duration: Moderate
Hits: 1
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley lifts his foe over his head and proceeds to slam them into the ground behind him. Upon impact, the foe is dealt a second helping of damage, and bounces off the floor.


Down Throw

Name: Pogo Tail Stab
Damage: Very High
Knockback: Very Low
Lag: Moderate
Range: N/A
Duration: Very Long
Hits: 4
Effect: None

Description:

Ridley plants the opponent into the ground beneath him, then hovers in the air a few feet above them. He then deals a massive amount of damage to the foe by stabbing them several times with his spear like tail. The initial slam can be teched, though, much like Fox's Down Throw.


Up Throw

Name: Suicidal Crash
Damage: Very High
Knockback: Moderate
Lag: Moderate
Range: N/A
Duration: Long
Hits: 1
Effect: Ridley is dealt with 10% damage

Description:

Ridley flies straight up into the air with the opposing player in his clutches, then after an earth shaking shriek, he dives straight down as fast as he can and crashes into the ground. Both Ridley and his foe are damaged by the move, though Ridley receives far less. 30% damage to the player he was holding, and 10% to Riddles.


Taunt

Ridley leans forward, with his arms tucked under him and his neck stretched out, and sways his head from side to side as he shrieks. Some people may recall this from Metroid Prime, in which, he was left open to fire when doing this. This is easily incorporated into Smash as a taunt, seeing how it's of no benefit to him, and that he is left open to attack whilst doing so. His signature scream may sound cool at first, but eventually, it becomes quite annoying, especially to the other players.


Shield

Ridley tucks his head in, and shields his body under his enormous wings. Then, the shield itself appears around him. Like all large characters, his shield isn't big enough to cover the entirety of his body.


Roll

Ridley spreads open his right wing and spins backwards around his foe, then folds his wing again. His roll moves him over a large distance, and has an average duration time. It is an overall decent roll.


Air Dodge

Ridley flaps his wings forward, propelling himself backwards into the "3rd dimension," and pulls his wings back out of the way of the enemy's attack. Afterwards, he cannot move and falls until he touches the ground or dies. As far as air dodges go, it's duration is rather long.


Winning Pose 1

Ridley, nowhere to be seen, suddenly appears in the distance, flying towards the screen. He then soars past, screeching, and returns to land abruptly in center stage, and folds his wings behind his back. He flew out of nowhere just like this in Metroid: Zero Mission and Metroid: Prime.


Winning Pose 2

Ridley opens his broad wings and holds them high above his head. He pulls his arms to his sides, raises his head in the air, and gives a long, drawn out sceech as he moves his head from the right to left. If anyone has seen the avatar of the chicken with its wings raised in the air, that is basically what this pose looks like.


Winning Pose 3

The screen is blank for a second. Then, a beady red eye fades into view, followed by the rest of Ridley. He did this in the beginning of each of the two encounters Samus had with him in Super Metroid.


Victory Music / Theme Song

Ridley's Boss Battle Music

Listen or Download the Original Song Here

Listen to the Brawl Take on the Song Here


Kirby Hat



Props to the talented Silver777 for drawing this great Ridley Kirby hat. Thanks, Silver ^^.



COLORS

Purple

Though it varies through the games, (from a deep violet, to a near periwinkle hue) this is Ridley's normal color. This color would double as his costume when he is on the Blue Team in team battles. This is entirely possible, seeing how Samus used her purple Gravity Suit for the Blue Team in Melee.



Red

Originially used for promos, renders, and box art for Super Metroid for the SNES, the red colored Ridley is one of his more common depictions. In alot of the 2D Metroid games, Ridley would flash or turn completely red in rage towards the end of a fight. This color would also serve as his costume for the Red Team.



Green

This color was never used in a Metroid game, but it would give Ridley a more "dragon" or "dinosaur" like appearance. Plus, it would serve as his costume for the Green Team.

Brown

Ridley first appeared with a brownish hue in the remake of the original Metroid, Metroid: Zero Mission for the GBA. So far, it has been the only time he has been seen in a game in a color other than purple. I personally think that this costume looks terribly awesome.




COSTUMES

Meta Ridley

Meta Ridley appeared in Metroid Prime and will also play a role in the upcoming Metroid Prime 3: Corruption, in which he is believed to have acquired 'phazon' powers. Meta Ridley is not to be confused with Mecha Ridley. Meta Ridley is the actual Ridley that was defeated in the first Metroid, however, he was "resurrected" by the Space Pirates. Many of his body parts were replaced by robotic parts and he was fitted with weapons. Alot of people want to see this version of Ridley as at least an alternate costume because he looks like a torn up, metal badass. And I completely agree.



Mecha Ridley

This is Mecha Ridley, or Robo Ridley (usually Mecha Ridley because Robo Ridley sounds like a really lame anime character). He/it is actually a robot. It was the final boss in Metroid: Zero Mission.



Ridley X

Ridley X is Ridley, or a 'clone' of Ridley, that has been infected by the parasite, X. In Metroid: Fusion, he had been frozen in a storage compartment. Towards the end of the game, his frozen body was infected by an X. He then mutated into this guy, who looks more like a dragon then the pterodactyl-esque normal Ridley.




STAGES

Planet Zebes
Norfair

Norfair would be a combination of the Ridley Boss Room and Lower Norfair from the 2D Metroid games. The battle takes place on a central steel platform that is approximately the length of the Fountain of Dreams stage from Melee. The platform is held above a bed of lava by two metal pillars at each of its ends. These pillars extend and contract when the lava rises and falls, respectively, thus raising and lowering the main platform. This can cause the fight to move closer to the top kill zone, allowing for easier vertical KOs. Two Rippers (small, brown hovering beetles) will often rise from the lava and roam the areas on each side of the main platform. They work like moving ledges, in other words, you can hang on to them for dear life. From time to time, these little guys will save you from certain death.

The lava beneath the stage is deadly. Acting as the acid did in the Brinstar stage from Melee, it sends you rocketing upward if you happen to land in it. This can be especially dangerous if the lava has risen, and the main platform is closer to the level's ceiling. The kill zones to the left and right of the stage are relatively wide, about the same as those in Final Destination.

The background in Ridley's Lair would be home to several cameos appearances by a few critters from the Metroid games. Large, gaudy columns line the background, engraved with lores and pictures by the Chozo. Ancient, crumbling Chozo statues and architecture line the floor, damaged by years of erosion from the constantly rising lava. Occasionally, an Etecoon or a Dachoras will wander around in the background, hopping around on the statues. The flickering light from the lava causes the small, friendly creatures to cast huge, ominous shadows as they pass by.

Sounds would include the crackling of fire from the lava, and the noise of bubbles rising to the surface and bursting, generated by the same burning lake of fire. When one of the animals moves around in the background, the sound of their footsteps and crumbling rocks would echo through the huge, open chamber. The music playing would be none other than the Lower Norfair theme. It's solid beat sets the pace for battle.

Listen or Download the Song Here





Tallon IV
Artifact Temple

Everyone, even those new to the Metroid series, should know about this level. Taken straight from Metroid Prime, is the Artifact Temple, the location where you first encounter Meta Ridley. The battle is fought from the front view of the stage on the cliff overlooking the Impact Crater. To make it a playable arena, the small statues that hold the artifacts are removed, but in their place are two small platforms hovering over the gigantic, main platform. These platforms, like the statues, have thick, engraved lines that glow blue. These markings spread from the center of each platform, in which there's a glowing, blue, circular engraving.

The length of the main platform is the equivalent of Final Destination. The horizontal kill zones are quite short, allowing for an occasional cheap KO. However, the level has a very high ceiling, so star KOs are hard to come by. The walls leading up to the ledge of each side of the stage are high and flat. This affects the difficulty each character has recovering drastically.

Periodically, the enormous Chozo statues in the background will "come to life" and their rich blue light turns into a deep red. Their eyes steadily shine brighter and brighter, until lasers shoot from them. The tiny red lines meet at a central point, where they form a thick scarlett beam that fires at the character that is currently in the lead. The laser stuns the player for a few seconds, leaving him open to an attack for a short time, then the beam dies down and parishes. The light in the statues' eyes fade away, and the red lights change to blue again.

The most notable cosmetic change of the Artifact Temple is the weather. Starting with a clear, peaceful day, it worsens as dark clouds start to gather, and it begins to rain. It progresses from a light drizzle, to a downpour, and finally into a frightening thunderstorm. Then, the sky clears, and the cycle continues. As the weather changes, however, so does the atmosphere of the battle. When sunny and mellow, flocks of birds will soar into the horizon, various creatures can be heard in background, and the music (The Red Brinstar Remix that was later used for Metroid: Prime) is slow and calm. As it starts to rain, everything goes silent, the setting darkens, and the theme picks up tempo. While the rain comes down heavier and harder, the rumbling and crashing of the thunder shakes the ground, and the song becomes more twisted and unnerving. By the time the storm is in full throttle, so is the now dark music, and lightening strikes in the background, briefly lighting up the stage. As the storm wanes, the song slows back down to a soothing rhythm, the wildlife awakens, and the stage is in a peaceful state again.

Listen or Download the Song Here





BANNERS


Okay, so I'm not the best at making signatures by any means, so if you have a Ridley support banner that you wouldn't mind sharing, please tell me so that we can help spread the Ridley love. Feel free to use one. If not for their beauty, (LOL) then for the cause. Show your support for the purple dragon and lead the fight against Ridley haters today!












ICONS


First of all, these aren't mine. They were made by someone who goes by the username SSBB_Polska on Photobucket. Here's a link to his album. These are simple, space saving icons that get straight to the point. Put one of these in your signature to say, "Hey, I support Ridley for Brawl, and if you don't like him, then **** you!"

 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
I've debated the Fox, Wolf, and Falco thing with you before. Fox is the only one known to have had official 'training'. Falco was in a gang, and Wolf, we have no idea.
Falco and Fox are on the same team. Since they fly the same ship and use the same weapons they would need similar training. And didn't they all go the same academy regardless of what they did previusly?

You make good Points Bowserlick, however i disagree.

Anatomy has nothing to do here, look at Link and Marth, they have the same kind of anatomy and both are swordsman, yet they play very diferent, the question is "why?".

It's not because they're from diferent franchises, it's because the Characters are diferent, Link uses all sorts of Gadgets, while Marth is just a swordsman.

The same applies to Fox/Wolf.

Fox is more of a sophisticated Soldier, with a Gun and gadgets like the Reflector, While Wolf, i belive is more of a Savage warrior, i would expect him to have a machine gun of some sorts and a knife, and i would expect him to fight with more heavy and brutal attacks than Fox.

Also Fox is small and skinny, Wolf is big and muscular. Also Wolf is the only Star Fox Villain that would deserve a post in Brawl. I know you support Andross, but let's be fair, he whont be a Playable Character now that ATs exist.
It is not just anatomy. It is anatomy plus simialr occupation, similar weapon usage, similar leadership skills and ther skills, ect. Wolf is basically the "evil" Fox. The previous games might of tried to give Wolf a little more personality, but he still cannot escape being a "gray mean" fox quite yet. (Wario is an example of how a rival, dark version character can branch off to have his own uniqueness). So there is hope for Wolf in the future, but right now he is just that rival character. This is apparent in his name, "Wolf."

Marth and Link do not come from the same worlds and they do not sure the same way of fighting. Fox and Wolf pretty much do.

There really is no point wasting a character slot with a character who shares similar moves.
 

Viroxor

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
803
Location
On the precipice of victory
Link and Ganondorf come from the same world and have similar training (or at least a lot closer than Fox and Wolf) and yet they are considered immensely different characters.
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
They come from a similar world but they do not have similar training out all. You are just grasping at straws now. They both use swords but that is the only onnection. Link uses items to gain the advantage and has a unique swordplay. Gannondorf uses dark magic, possession, unholy transformations, and has a different style of swordplay. Mainly blocks and hard strikes with a kick thrown inbetween.

When they both fight, they fight differently. When you fight Wolf in Starfox 64 you both use the same manuvuers and shots.

You have to agree to that. Its fact.
 

Conker1

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 7, 2001
Messages
602
Location
Florida
Please no Wolf in Brawl. The main reason I see people asking for him is because they want more villains, the worst reason to want someone. After that comes adding Krystal because they want more females. Neither of them deserve to be in as much as Falco.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
So there is hope for Wolf in the future, but right now he is just that rival character. This is apparent in his name, "Wolf."
And Sakurai whant's more Villains, besides, Simila Ocupation yes true. Weapon Usage? somehow i doubt it, i expect Wolf to use more Heavy weapons than a gun, and leadership? well Fox is friendly with his teammates, i don't think wolf is, Skills? nono, i already sayd all that in my other post, so whatever.
 

Bowserlick

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
5,136
And Sakurai whant's more Villains, besides, Simila Ocupation yes true. Weapon Usage? somehow i doubt it, i expect Wolf to use more Heavy weapons than a gun, and leadership? well Fox is friendly with his teammates, i don't think wolf is, Skills? nono, i already sayd all that in my other post, so whatever.
In the games Wolf does use the same weapons as Fox. And he does have a sense of commaderie with his teammates.
 

Tedius Zanarukando

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 13, 2007
Messages
95
Location
Anderson, SC
I disagree with this character roster. Marth should not be deleted, but Roy should. Fire Emblem should be represented with at least four characters (most likely Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, and Ike), and Nintendo Wars should be represented with at least two (Andy and Sami).
 

Shiek 84

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
5
I disagree with this character roster. Marth should not be deleted, but Roy should. Fire Emblem should be represented with at least four characters (most likely Marth, Sigurd, Lyndis, and Ike), and Nintendo Wars should be represented with at least two (Andy and Sami).

I don't think Fire Emblem is significant enough of a franchise to warrant four characters. We don't need a surplus of sword wielding anime characters. Two from Fire Emblem and two from Golden Sun would be best (probably Felix and Isaac, though Alex could also be interesting.) Or, perhaps two from Fire Emblem, Isaac, and then a character from the Wars series (which I have never played).

After that comes adding Krystal because they want more females. Neither of them deserve to be in as much as Falco.
I don't propose adding Krystal because she is a female. I propose her because she would be a fun character. Her staff has a lot of potential for interesting moves (fire balls, boost for recovery, ground pound, ice blast--plus, it would make a cool melee weapon). Her appearances in SFA and SFC make her a likely candidate.

I know Falco is super popular among dedicated players. I personally hate him. I think he is annoying, and I'm not a fan of the clones in general. However, a Fox/Falco/Krystal lineup for Brawl would be ideal.

Also, I'd like to restate how much I hope Ridley makes it in this game. Metroid needs greater representation and he is the best bet. He might be challenging to incorporate, but he could be totally awesome.
 

the grim lizard

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
3,130
I don't think Fire Emblem is significant enough of a franchise to warrant four characters. We don't need a surplus of sword wielding anime characters. Two from Fire Emblem and two from Golden Sun would be best (probably Felix and Isaac, though Alex could also be interesting.) Or, perhaps two from Fire Emblem, Isaac, and then a character from the Wars series (which I have never played).
I seriously doubt you'll get more than one Golden Sun character, if any (which I'm leaning toward). FE doesn't deserve four, three at most. They do have a lot of characters, though. Marth is most important because he was the original; Ike is the recent guy, and maybe one more non-sword wielder. I agree on the "sword wielding anime characters" comment. :p Anyway, the third one would have to be something different than a swordsman or even a mage. We seem to be getting a lot of those, now, too.

I know Falco is super popular among dedicated players. I personally hate him. I think he is annoying, and I'm not a fan of the clones in general. However, a Fox/Falco/Krystal lineup for Brawl would be ideal.
I'm not sure how you hate Falco because you think he's annoying. Have you played 64?? He's like the least annoying character on there. Even Fox is far more annoying than Falco. See here.

And I understand the whole clones thing, but people who say that definitely don't understand the benefits of them: Including more characters, variety within a moveset, etc. Yes, Doc and Pichu were probably unnecessary, and Ganondorf probably had no business being a Falcon clone, but they still were a good thing. Most of them played very differently. I would actually be disappointed if Falco was too different from his Melee self in Brawl. He should retain a lot of his moves, like how Luigi still retains a lot of Mario's moves.
 

Shiek 84

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 4, 2005
Messages
5
Alright. I've absorbed some of the criticism and came up with what I believe is a far better, far more logical, slimmed down lineup.

My fully complete roster:

-Mario
-Luigi
-Bowser
-Peach
-Baby Bowser
-Wario
-Paper Mario

-Link
-Zelda/Sheik
-Ganondorf
-Young Link
-Midna

-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong

-Fox
-Falco
-Krystal

-Samus/Zero Suit Samus
-Ridley

-Kirby
-Meta Knight
-King Dedede

-Pikachu
-Second Generation Pokemon
-Third Generation Pokemon
-Fourth Generation Pokemon

-Ike
-Isaac

-Pit
-Captain Falcon
-Ness
-Ice Climbers

-Sonic
-Snake
-Cloud
-Mega Man
-Rayman

There it is. The mother load. Had to make some painful cuts (Samurai Goroh, Felix, K. Rool, Marth, Mewtwo, Mr. Game and Watch, Captain Olimar), but I believe this is the best and most realistic lineup I have ever created. It is under 40 characters (I counted 37--and if we wanted it down to 36, we could keep Mewtwo and add just ONE new Pokemon--which I would prefer anyway). If we're allowed 40 characters, then someone like K. Rool, another Pokemon, a character from Corruption, Lloyd, Captain Olimar or even Zant might get the nod (though I personally think he should be assist trophied.) Still disappointed about Goroh . . . he just appealed to me for some reason.

Here are some select comments I made about specific characters on another forum:

"Kirby needs one more representative. King Dedede is the best bet. In general, the game needs more competent heavy hitters."

"Diddy Kong is an obvious selection for the DK series, also deserving clout. He could attack with his peanut pop guns, return to the stage with his barrel rockets, and attack with his tail."

"A Star Fox character that has become a series mainstay since Adventures. Less "cloney" than Falco. Her staff offers great move potential. She could shoot fire balls has her standard special attack, ice as her side special, Ground Quake as her down special, and boost for her recovery. Plus, the staff doubles as a melee weapon."

"Metroid is truly under represented in Smash Brothers. Ridley is admittedly a difficult character to implement due to his gargantuan size and ability to fly. I still believe he is the series' best bet. He'll need to be downsized a bit, though still a large character. Perhaps second jump will allow him to glide."

"Another no-brainer. He would naturally replace Young Link (though he would still very likely be called young Link). The Hero of the Winds presents a whole new feel to Link's character. He would play fast and silky smooth. He would use a Deku Leaf to return to the stage, and attack with bombs that exploded in cel-shaded splendor. His final smash might either be to summon a hurricane or use the hurricane spin."

"A thoroughly appealing alternative to Dr. Mario. He would attack with his hammer, roll into a tube, and return to the stage as a paper airplane."

"The Mario series doesn't really need more characters, but Baby Bowser is just too **** appealing. He has gained prominence as a series mainstay in recent years. He could be a sort of Bowser clone, making the traditional Bowser move set more viable in competitive play (as a medium weighted character, he wouldn't be bogged down by tremendous girth). Or he could have an entirely original move set."

"Midna is the best choice for a completely new character from the Zelda series. Her move set is not at all set in stone. Like Captain Falcon in the first Smash Bros, it will be fleshed out not by the creators of the original game (i.e. Twilight Princess), but by the creators of this game. This affords them ample freedom. Should she ride the wolf or should she not? Whatever works best for the game play."
__________________________________________


I have to admit that I was inspired to improve my list mostly due to today's update on Smashbros.com. Not sure why. But seeing a screenshot of Ike really made me yearn for Isaac's inclusion. This is what I had to say about him:

"I see him as a less graceful character than Marth, but stronger and having much better special attacks (thanks to his psynergy). He would wield the Sol Blade. His final Smash would be to summon Judgement. His standard special would be Ragnorok--a slow loading chargeable sword strike similar to Marth's shield breaker) His side special could be Spire (hold down a direction and B to manually move a piece of rock over a foe's head, release to drop). His down special would be quake--he would strike the ground with his sword and those caught in a small radius would take damage and be sent upward. His recovery move would be to unleash a djinn. The djinn will carry him sharply upward before it dives to the ground and damages any nearby foes--a powerful but difficult move that functions rather poorly as a recovery."

And that is that.
 
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