Sumting Sumting Maifa | Game Over

[Trisscar]

Nah, just that only scum would be trigger happy enough to immediately vote me after saying so. Not to mention that as vanilla town, i have no threatening abilities and therefore am only worth taking out as a vote against maf. Therefore using the vote as a way to get rid of me is probably a better use of maf's time than using any night-killing things.
Therefore the most efficient course of action is to label me as a "noob maf" and get town to off me themselves as soon as possible.

 

[Trisscar]

Besides, maf has info town doesn't. Seems the best course of action is to remedy that as early and as much as possible, don't you think?

 

[Deadbananas]

Personally I am worried there could be a claim vig of some sort though not positive. If there was im guessing itd be limited use.

 

[Z25]

So 3DSNinja are you sure your role is like a mentor then?

Because this is like last game where you mixing up info like Not having a role pm, and mistaken wiisp for a neighbor.

I just want to hear your explanation on this

 

[Pythag]

Ran, where are you at?

 

[Pythag]

Besides, maf has info town doesn't. Seems the best course of action is to remedy that as early and as much as possible, don't you think?

An interesting take. Do you advocate for mass claiming early?

 

[ranmaru]

Z25 I am aware it is a big change. I only have gut feelings right now.

 

[ranmaru]

Secondary Vote: Pythag

Why are you voting Pythag?

 

[Xivii]

Fake scumhunting. These questions were already asked and waiting:

So, you examined your last game, where you almost immediately claimed neighbors, and said "yeah, claiming unprompted is a good move" so you replicated it in this game.

Why did you do this?

and wtf is a shadow?

 

[Xivii]

Unvote: Ranmaru
Vote: Pythag

If Ranmaru is town, he will not be able to resist becoming active no matter how much wants to use a different style.

 

[Trisscar]

Pythag I mean tbf that is in fact the current meta in a few mafia-likes for good reason. You get much more out of straight claims than you do analyzing behavior and it's possible factors. It's easier to catch someone out if they have to unequivocally state something, than if they can simply imply.

Course the behavior analysis is still *useful*, it's just not the easiest or first method of social deduction games as I've seen so far.

 

[Pythag]

Pythag I mean tbf that is in fact the current meta in a few mafia-likes for good reason. You get much more out of straight claims than you do analyzing behavior and it's possible factors. It's easier to catch someone out if they have to unequivocally state something, than if they can simply imply.

Course the behavior analysis is still *useful*, it's just not the easiest or first method of social deduction games as I've seen so far.

Is there any reason we should not do that this game?

 

[LogicoftheVI]

I was hoping my post earlier would draw even a little bit of attention....
Logic is flying way under the radar today.
Time to catch up I guess?

 

[Pythag]

Unvote: Ranmaru
Vote: Pythag

If Ranmaru is town, he will not be able to resist becoming active no matter how much wants to use a different style.

A play style still involves play, which has been noticeably absent.

What's your timeline for when you start finding it scummy?

 

[Trisscar]

Ehhhhh... hm

Okay so we (as far as I'm aware) do not have a role list or number of players on teams to check against, and from what I've been told this particular subset of Mafia doesn't have quite as much of the powerful abilities that say, Town of Salem has.
This means we can't just say "we have no room for this role, therefore one of these people is lying".
Nor are we overly likely to catch someone out in one night with exact proof they are not who or what they say they are, though I could be underestimating various roles there.

I think people are assuming we have four to five maf this game, which if it follows what appears to be the usual formula is probably the case. If the game does not follow that usual formula then things are going to be interesting.

If someone claims something and then does not perform the duties of that thing, that is an easy catch out.
if someone claims something important, and someone else claims a protective or transporter-esque role and that important person dies, then that is suspicious.
Some roles may not want to claim due to their function not working well if they are outed, this is valid but does spread confusion.
Irregardless of how easy it is to match claims, a running tally of things people have said that are specific or overly susp should be kept and shared to all, so that no tampering of it is unlikely to be noticed and so that Town is on the same page, and mafia has less fog to wander in so to speak.

 

[Pythag]

I was hoping my post earlier would draw even a little bit of attention....
Logic is flying way under the radar today.
Time to catch up I guess?

I don't mean to be aggressive, but what kind of response were you expecting?

The post that said you hadn't read, and we might get content out of you 5 hours later?

Hello everyone!
Tis I logic back to play another game with you all.
I see we are currently at 3 pages but I haven't i9read much past RVS (maybe 20 or 30 posts).
Needless to say I have nothing to add to the current discussion.
I am at work for the next 5 hours or so, hopefully you guys can get some content out of me after that

 

[Z25]

Hello everyone!
Tis I logic back to play another game with you all.
I see we are currently at 3 pages but I haven't i9read much past RVS (maybe 20 or 30 posts).
Needless to say I have nothing to add to the current discussion.
I am at work for the next 5 hours or so, hopefully you guys can get some content out of me after that

I was hoping my post earlier would draw even a little bit of attention....
Logic is flying way under the radar today.
Time to catch up I guess?

Why do you want attention on that post? It’s pretty much a simple “I exist” post, which is nice to hear but it’s not something that needs attention unless I’m missing a point here.

Regardless what’s your current thoughts if you read up?

 

[Z25]

Ehhhhh... hm

Okay so we (as far as I'm aware) do not have a role list or number of players on teams to check against, and from what I've been told this particular subset of Mafia doesn't have quite as much of the powerful abilities that say, Town of Salem has.
This means we can't just say "we have no room for this role, therefore one of these people is lying".
Nor are we overly likely to catch someone out in one night with exact proof they are not who or what they say they are, though I could be underestimating various roles there.

I think people are assuming we have four to five maf this game, which if it follows what appears to be the usual formula is probably the case. If the game does not follow that usual formula then things are going to be interesting.

If someone claims something and then does not perform the duties of that thing, that is an easy catch out.
if someone claims something important, and someone else claims a protective or transporter-esque role and that important person dies, then that is suspicious.
Some roles may not want to claim due to their function not working well if they are outed, this is valid but does spread confusion.
Irregardless of how easy it is to match claims, a running tally of things people have said that are specific or overly susp should be kept and shared to all, so that no tampering of it is unlikely to be noticed and so that Town is on the same page, and mafia has less fog to wander in so to speak.

These are mostly fair points but what do you mean by the bolded?

Why would one person claiming something important like say a cop; and then someone claims as you said a protector role like doctor and then the later dying, make the form suspicious?

Unless I’m misunderstanding your point here

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Done with page 1.
A lot of talk about who played with who, precious games, and how many mafia.
I have played with like 3 people here
Jackrito I have been playing with for like 3 orn4 years
Xi and Z were in the last game I played here.
Truecar I have seen on MC but never played with then or read their games.
Everyone one else is new to me.

I have about 4 years of forum experience on Mal and MC. I thoroughly enjoy being town, I dont mind being mafia but find it to be more of a chore lately. I am still trying to gain my footing outside of my home forum. I've never been able to get comfortable on other sites for some reason.

I would guess there are 4 mafia in a 16 player game? After reading others thoughts 5 would also make sense to me given town usually get 3 about mislynches (in games I've played anyway). So 12-4, 11-5, 11-4-1, or 10-5-1 all seem reasonable to me? Not really interested in 3rd party speculation at this time.

 

[Trisscar]

Wait what how the heck did that get translated as "bold this"?

*edit: nvm you were just asking about that line in particular, sorry thought I had accidentally adding formatting stuff without realizing. XD

 

[Trisscar]

Anyway that's more along the lines of like, someone claiming babysitter or escort or something, and another player claiming doctor or bodyguard, and then the doc or bodyguard not being on the powerful claimed role.

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Why do you want attention on that post? It’s pretty much a simple “I exist” post, which is nice to hear but it’s not something that needs attention unless I’m missing a point here.

Regardless what’s your current thoughts if you read up?

No sir you're not missing a point and it's not that I felt it should just that an "I exist" post garner a lot of attention but where im from these types of posts tend to get poked at is all.

I'm still catching up right now.

 

[bessie]

Much of the posting in this game will probably happen when I’m at work. For those of you that I’ve never played with, I don’t play when I’m working but I should be available after this time every day. This is a little earlier than usual for me. I will make an effort to be available around deadline, but I’m usually still working at 5.

I don't know how you could possibly think this is a RVS. My case on Xivii is airtight. why are you not joining in?

If this is a serious vote, then you are voting for xivii because you don’t like his gambits, and because he is hard to read?
If this is actually RVS, why are you defending this vote?

Vote: Jackrito

Cares too much publicly about something out of game (mentor). That shouldn't be up to public debate, and is instead a host issue. Stated they don't want things to be crazy because of it, but practically only derails things by bringing attention to it multiple times.

I think that if this is part of 3DSNinja’s role, then it is not out of game, and Ninja is the one that brought it up. If this just means he’s being advised by someone unofficially, he should get the mod's blessing. But from post #76 it sounds like it is part of his role.

Bessie why do you not do RVS?
Do you think the game would be better served if everyone adopted your playstyle?

I just never really have. When I place a vote, it will be serious. I’m not really good at the small talk that usually starts off the game, though I recognize it as necessary, because we have to get talking somehow. I like to go right for analysis. Also, totally meta reason, almost all of the games on my old site tended to start while I was at work, by the time I got home, there was some actual content to analyze (and RVS was more or less over). Or I like to analyze confirmation posts. See Post #45.

My playstyle is what works for me. One thing I like about mafia is playing with different people with different playstyles. The difference, and the conflict, is what drives content. If everyone played like me, well for one thing, it would be hard to get anything going because I’m more reactive.

Well, there’s like a few more posts since I started typing this out. Back later.

 

[ranmaru]

Besides, maf has info town doesn't. Seems the best course of action is to remedy that as early and as much as possible, don't you think?

Claiming narrows the pool for scum to use process of elimination on who may or may not be a power role. Mafia don't have that information unless their role specifies such information. Have you made similar claims in previous games, and if so, can you link the post? Jackrito is this expected behavior of Trisscar?

 

[LogicoftheVI]

Vote: Trisscar

May I ask why you're still on your RVS?

Town lean on Mala. Was thinking the same on 3DS but not sure anymore given the new info.

Why does the new info make you hesitant on your read?

I think it is a mentor.

Could also just be RP

Could be a lot of things?
Anything else you want to randomly throw out there?

I don't know how you could possibly think this is a RVS. My case on Xivii is airtight. why are you not joining in?

So, you examined your last game, where you almost immediately claimed neighbors, and said "yeah, claiming unprompted is a good move" so you replicated it in this game.

Why did you do this?

and wtf is a shadow?

You seem to not be interested in an early claim so im curious why this ends with a role fish?

 

[Handorin]

Besides, maf has info town doesn't. Seems the best course of action is to remedy that as early and as much as possible, don't you think?

Pointless exercise right now. Vanillas claim vanilla, power roles claim vanilla (except maaaaybe cop????? but doubtful), mafia claim vanilla, and I claim mafia (naturally). Or has the meta evolved in the last 10 years where you guys can get good, solid info of day 1 claims? If so, help this old geezer get back into the game.

Vote: Trisscar

 

[Pythag]

If this is a serious vote, then you are voting for xivii because you don’t like his gambits, and because he is hard to read?
If this is actually RVS, why are you defending this vote?

I was being sarcastic.
do you think a RVS should change with the slightest hint of annoyance from the town? That doesn't feel like the spirit of RVS to me, but I'm willing to be wrong.

I've been reading and talking, trying to see if anyone pings me. Z25 did, but I'm pretty sure I'm just hardwired to always suspect the guy.
The only other ping I had was Ran, and it was a soft one at that. I just lack more information before I move my vote again. or maybe you're supposed to move your vote to get information. idk.

xivii wasn't in danger of being wagoned right now, so I wasn't too worried. I was trying to follow Ryker and not be not voting someone.

I just never really have. When I place a vote, it will be serious. I’m not really good at the small talk that usually starts off the game, though I recognize it as necessary, because we have to get talking somehow. I like to go right for analysis. Also, totally meta reason, almost all of the games on my old site tended to start while I was at work, by the time I got home, there was some actual content to analyze (and RVS was more or less over). Or I like to analyze confirmation posts. See Post #45.

My playstyle is what works for me. One thing I like about mafia is playing with different people with different playstyles. The difference, and the conflict, is what drives content. If everyone played like me, well for one thing, it would be hard to get anything going because I’m more reactive.

That's fair. I don't particularly love RVS, but I've also been lambasted in the past for not partaking in it, for partaking in it too slow, blah blah blah. My playstyle doesn't necessarily work, but it's all I have.

 

[Pythag]

You seem to not be interested in an early claim so im curious why this ends with a role fish?

I guess I didn't see that as role fishing.
Shadow was claimed, so the role is out, that would leave me in the dark while everyone else may know what it is.

 

[Z25]

Much of the posting in this game will probably happen when I’m at work. For those of you that I’ve never played with, I don’t play when I’m working but I should be available after this time every day. This is a little earlier than usual for me. I will make an effort to be available around deadline, but I’m usually still working at 5.

If this is a serious vote, then you are voting for xivii because you don’t like his gambits, and because he is hard to read?
If this is actually RVS, why are you defending this vote?


I think that if this is part of 3DSNinja’s role, then it is not out of game, and Ninja is the one that brought it up. If this just means he’s being advised by someone unofficially, he should get the mod's blessing. But from post #76 it sounds like it is part of his role.

I just never really have. When I place a vote, it will be serious. I’m not really good at the small talk that usually starts off the game, though I recognize it as necessary, because we have to get talking somehow. I like to go right for analysis. Also, totally meta reason, almost all of the games on my old site tended to start while I was at work, by the time I got home, there was some actual content to analyze (and RVS was more or less over). Or I like to analyze confirmation posts. See Post #45.

My playstyle is what works for me. One thing I like about mafia is playing with different people with different playstyles. The difference, and the conflict, is what drives content. If everyone played like me, well for one thing, it would be hard to get anything going because I’m more reactive.

Well, there’s like a few more posts since I started typing this out. Back later.

Well without a RVS how do you feel about the early game so far?

Any content stick out upon your analysis?

 

[Trisscar]

Disagree, i think it has a lot of point. Gonna post my logic from the previous game I've played on any boards here;

"Mafia is a team that, as far as I am aware, knows who their other team members are and possibly what they can do. Town is a team that has no idea who anyone else is, and has no idea what they can do. There is no neutral chaos or neutral killing team.

Mafia has advantage in information, town has advantage in numbers. Zymf has only been killed once, which means they can still act if they have the ability to do so. We don't know what that ability is. It could be something that makes towns job harder.

The easiest way to win is to level the playing field. In towns case that means denying the mafia information, or numbers even as town is slowly killed off.

Therefore, kill the confirmed mafia BEFORE taking random shots at the metaphorical Battleship radar. The more town and less mafia, the easier it is to win for town because mafia can do less to muck things up. Action economy is a b**** that way."

Link to said game here, for easy perusal:
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/not-dead-yet-mafia-game-over-town-win.239/

*edit: a word

 

[Z25]

Also
Unvote

Forgot to unvote earlier. We are out of that phase and right now we have more content to work with.

 

[Jackrito]

Claiming narrows the pool for scum to use process of elimination on who may or may not be a power role. Mafia don't have that information unless their role specifies such information. Have you made similar claims in previous games, and if so, can you link the post? Jackrito is this expected behavior of Trisscar?

I would like to say yes based off his home site, but my exp with Trisscar is very limited and I can't even remember it well. I know him mostly from Rep since I'm friends with a lot of people off his home site. His posts were a lot more wordy and mech heavy then I was expecting though

 

[Z25]

Also logic drawing slight attention to themselves and mentioning how they are flying under the radar seems unlikely to be said from a scum POV imo.

 

[Jackrito]

I have no idea what the hell Triss is doing with this claiming stuff though. His stance is correct from a pure logical point that by defination mafia have the adv of info on each other, while Town know nothing apart from in the rare cases of masons neighbourhoods and even those carry town risk. I disagree with his way of fixing said issue though.

 

[Jackrito]

Also logic drawing slight attention to themselves and mentioning how they are flying under the radar seems unlikely to be said from a scum POV imo.

You would be surprised. scum can do whatever is needed to subvert the norm expectations to their adv. I can figure out Logic to a degree though if he posts more.

 

[Trisscar]

Fair. I dunno if it fits this particular setup, but it is a possible solution.

 

[Z25]

Claiming narrows the pool for scum to use process of elimination on who may or may not be a power role. Mafia don't have that information unless their role specifies such information. Have you made similar claims in previous games, and if so, can you link the post? Jackrito is this expected behavior of Trisscar?

This is very true, but scum would be unlikely to alright claim vanilla day one and try to get away with it. Im thinking it’s more a bad mistake then anything else.
Still we have two supposed town claims out now and one seems to be a possible power role. Which isn’t good, scum now has a decent start on info.

Unless one of those two claims is a lie ( or both?). Still this is making for a bit of a confusing start

 

[Jackrito]

Disagree, i think it has a lot of point. Gonna post my logic from the previous game I've played on any boards here;

"Mafia is a team that, as far as I am aware, knows who their other team members are and possibly what they can do. Town is a team that has no idea who anyone else is, and has no idea what they can do. There is no neutral chaos or neutral killing team.

Mafia has advantage in information, town has advantage in numbers. Zymf has only been killed once, which means they can still act if they have the ability to do so. We don't know what that ability is. It could be something that makes towns job harder.

The easiest way to win is to level the playing field. In towns case that means denying the mafia information, or numbers even as town is slowly killed off.

Therefore, kill the confirmed mafia BEFORE taking random shots at the metaphorical Battleship radar. The more town and less mafia, the easier it is to win for town because mafia can do less to muck things up. Action economy is a b**** that way."

Link to said game here, for easy persual:
https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/threads/not-dead-yet-mafia-game-over-town-win.239/

Oh why did you have to use that game as your example that game was weird for many reasons. A game where scum had to be lynched twice to kill them and town killed twice is a terrible example to use here.

 

[Z25]

You would be surprised. scum can do whatever is needed to subvert the norm expectations to their adv. I can figure out Logic to a degree though if he posts more.

I fully agree, I’m not clearing him but just wanted to point out what I’ve been thinking on. Still more posts are definitely needed from his slot. Mind games like that are definitely what I’m considering right now as this is a very weird day one.

 

[Jackrito]

This is very true, but scum would be unlikely to alright claim vanilla day one and try to get away with it. Im thinking it’s more a bad mistake then anything else.
Still we have two supposed town claims out now and one seems to be a possible power role. Which isn’t good, scum now has a decent start on info.

Unless one of those two claims is a lie ( or both?). Still this is making for a bit of a confusing start

This bothers me a bit you say they are supposed town claims, but what claim is not, no one will ever claim scum, 3DS one is weird enough to be scum imo but not intrested in making this like last game again even though he started worse. I find that town lying about their role can have its advs also a lie does not always mean scum, but in most situations is bad play.