Summon Bolt! Pikachu: A Match-Up Thread

[erico9001]

VS.

Discuss the match-up between Shulk and Pikachu.

 

[Sol0ke]

I feel like this matchup is even. On one hand, Pikachu is quick, can combo Shulk pretty well, and has the projectile to keep him at bay. On the other hand, Shulk can easily keep up with speed, has the range to hit Pikachu, and can combo Pika somewhat.

Though this is coming from me, where a majority of my matches is for glory, so take this with a grain of salt

 

[Linkmario00]

I think that Shulk has less problems with Pikachu than with other combo characters like or.
First af all, Shulk has a HUGE advantage on range. I think almost every Shulk's moves except for Jab can outrange every Pikachu's moves except for Thunder and NeutralB which are both projectiles. Pikachu can use lots of NeutralB to easily zone Shulk, but Speed art is very useful to avoid them and spacing very well Pika. Jump can also be very useful using FF aerial (whcih Pikachu almost can't defende due to the range, so you can punsih the roll/spotdodge/shield) or grabs, and it helps a lot on gimping Pikachu thanks to the start up lag on his UpB (not talking if they use SideB, almost a sure stock with that).
Although, if Pikachu gets in one or two times, Shulk is pretty fu**ed. He doesn't have a fast aerial to escape combos, we all know that, and Pikachu's are soooo long, fast and powerful. So yeah, absolutely don't go to Buster! It will only hurt you as you don't need so much percentage on 'cause he's so lightweight. And in this MU you can finally use Smash arts: Pikachu has not a lot of kill power except for Upsmash, Sidesmash and Thunder, but the the first has very poor range and the other two have quite ending lag (Sidesmash is not that great in range, however), so don't be afraid to use Smash, you can kill Pikachu at around 70-80% with it on. Also if you're very high percentage (110-120%) use, Shield, thanks to Pikachu lack of power except for previous moves you can survive until 150-160%. Even if he grabs you, he can't easily connect the up throw to the spike Thunder beacuse of your huge weight.
However, after all Pikachu can combo Shulk so fast to kill percentage if he gets in, so I say this match up is ... even maybe? Or at max Shulk has a slightly advantage, so 0 or +1 for me

 

[spiderfreak1011]

I think that Shulk has less problems with Pikachu than with other combo characters like or.
First af all, Shulk has a HUGE advantage on range. I think almost every Shulk's moves except for Jab can outrange every Pikachu's moves except for Thunder and NeutralB which are both projectiles. Pikachu can use lots of NeutralB to easily zone Shulk, but Speed art is very useful to avoid them and spacing very well Pika. Jump can also be very useful using FF aerial (whcih Pikachu almost can't defende due to the range, so you can punsih the roll/spotdodge/shield) or grabs, and it helps a lot on gimping Pikachu thanks to the start up lag on his UpB (not talking if they use SideB, almost a sure stock with that).
Although, if Pikachu gets in one or two times, Shulk is pretty fu**ed. He doesn't have a fast aerial to escape combos, we all know that, and Pikachu's are soooo long, fast and powerful. So yeah, absolutely don't go to Buster! It will only hurt you as you don't need so much percentage on 'cause he's so lightweight. And in this MU you can finally use Smash arts: Pikachu has not a lot of kill power except for Upsmash, Sidesmash and Thunder, but the the first has very poor range and the other two have quite ending lag (Sidesmash is not that great in range, however), so don't be afraid to use Smash, you can kill Pikachu at around 70-80% with it on. Also if you're very high percentage (110-120%) use, Shield, thanks to Pikachu lack of power except for previous moves you can survive until 150-160%. Even if he grabs you, he can't easily connect the up throw to the spike Thunder beacuse of your huge weight.
However, after all Pikachu can combo Shulk so fast to kill percentage if he gets in, so I say this match up is ... even maybe? Or at max Shulk has a slightly advantage, so 0 or +1 for me

I dunno, Shield is useful for surviving Thunder, but im pretty sure out of Shield, U-throw > Thunder Bolt is a true combo at percents over 80%. Not to mention Pikachu's so fast and you're so slow in Shield, and it won't last forever. I don't think it'll help you all that much in this MU. Buster can be good if you manage to space out Pikachu with pokes from the little times ive played this MU, but otherwise i guess it's not that useful.

I'd talk about this MU if i knew anything at all about it, lol.

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I dunno, Shield is useful for surviving Thunder, but im pretty sure out of Shield, U-throw > Thunder Bolt is a true combo at percents over 80%.

Nah, you can DI to the left or right and escape it at all percents. If a Pikachu grabs you at kill percents for uthrow to Thunder, hold left or right before the throw even starts. Unless of course, you're at bthrow kill percents at the edge of the stage; then you'll want to DI the bthrow for maximum survivability.

 

[Scarhi]

So, I've been playing this match-up a lot recently (mostly against Lucar) and I think I'm getting better at it so I'll try to give some insight

So Pikachu is pretty small, and a lot of his attacks (FF Bair, Dtilt and Dsmash) will actually make them crouch under our grab and Ftilt (and jab to a certain extent). So if you shield these moves, don't go for a grab. Drop your shield and punish with somethig else. Shieldgrab isn't really good in this match-up in general since most of his other moves have enough shield pushback to prevent us from shieldgrabbing.
On the other hand, Air Slash is an amazing out of shield option. It sweeps them up from the ground, so the crouching effect doesn't matter, it has enough range not to care about shield pushback and it comes out pretty quickly.

(I'm not too sure why but I managed to shieldgrab Pika's FF Fair sometimes whereas some other times, Pika would just be too low for me to grab. I don't know if we can grab them out of it all the time, provided that we grab early enough, or if they can time their FF Fair so that we can't)

In Neutral
Most Pikachus will use their Neutral B to cover an approach. Our Nair beats it and can stop a grounded approach, but make sure you space it and FF to make sure you can jab/Dtilt before they grab you out of it.
You can also Forward Vision the neutral B if they're right behind it, but the risk/reward ratio isn't really good since at best you hit them with a soft hit (maybe with power vision, though ?), and at worst they spotdodge it and you get punished so I don't recommend it.

I haven't faced any really campy Pikachu yet, but I guess we can just approach them by walking->shield, and Utilt them if they're still in the air.

At low %, you want to avoid Pika's Utilt (same for FF Fair), it sets up some pretty nasty combos that can end up in an edgeguard. But Pika's damage per hit is actually pretty close to Sheik's, so combos usually don't hurt as much as they seem to. You might wanna avoid Jump art at low % though, because of the debuff.

Dtilt is pretty good, especially in Buster for the shieldstun. Shulk's range in general is a huge asset.

Advantage
If you get positional advantage, now is the time to watch out for these nasty Quick Attacks. If they're recovering near the ledge and you're close to it, chances are that they're gonna QA to the center of the stage. You can beat it with Bair, Fair, Nair or Utilt. You can also try to bait them into doing it while you're in Speed Art, shield it and punish them afterwards but QA doesn't have that much ending lag so it's usually not worth it.

Utilt in general is really good in this MU. Especially in Buster and Smash. You could bring them to 80% and try to kill them by punishing something in Smash Art, or you could just bring them up to around 110% and kill with Smash Utilt or Air Slash, which is much easier to do especially when you have positional advantage. My main kill moves in this MU are these two and Bair (Bair is awesome against QA)

Btw, edgeguarding Pikachu below the stage is really risky since he has so many tools to turn things around and take our place as the edgeguarder. So I wouldn't go for it unless I'm absolutely sure that I'm not over commiting (like, if he FF's an air dodge right in front of me for example) or unless I'm in Jump mode.

Disadvantage
Alright, so you got hit by an UpTilt. It's pretty much 20-30% guaranteed from there, so if you're in Buster or Jump, it's a good idea to try and cancel the mode between two hits.

When you get grabbed at mid/high %, DI so that you don't get caught by Uthrow > DownB, that thing is silly.

When thrown offstage, I like to use defensive Fairs to prevent Pikachu from coming in with a Nair or a Dair. They might try to get you with a neutral B too and there again, I feel like Fair is a better option than airdodge. Watch out for their downB offstage as well, it's their main option to get you if you're recovering high with Jump (here you gotta airdodge )

If you recover low, they can drop down and use their Bair. This move is a pain to deal with. It lasts long enough to hit you out of an airdodge, and it can send you either left or right. Which means that if you predict that you'll need to tech and it sends you the other way, you just airdodged to your death. :/


I initially wanted to do a paragraph about arts usage, but I don't have much to say about it for this MU =/ I usually start in Speed, go to Buster whenever it runs out, and use Smash for Air Slash/Utilt/Bair kills. There's probably more to the match-up than that, I'm mostly using a generic art rotation for now.
I've been getting some kills with Jump Fairs though, lately.
I tried Shield once at low % to try and get some positional advantage while shutting down Pika's combo game, but it didn't work too well. Maybe I wasn't punishing unsafe on hit attacks with the right move ? I'll try that strategy again next time I play ^^


I'll try coming back with more info next time I play against Lucar

(Oh, and btw sorry if my English is a little shaky, it might be since I don't usually do big write ups like that xD)

 

[erico9001]

So, I've been playing this match-up a lot recently (mostly against Lucar) and I think I'm getting better at it so I'll try to give some insight

So Pikachu is pretty small, and a lot of his attacks (FF Bair, Dtilt and Dsmash) will actually make them crouch under our grab and Ftilt (and jab to a certain extent). So if you shield these moves, don't go for a grab. Drop your shield and punish with somethig else. Shieldgrab isn't really good in this match-up in general since most of his other moves have enough shield pushback to prevent us from shieldgrabbing.
On the other hand, Air Slash is an amazing out of shield option. It sweeps them up from the ground, so the crouching effect doesn't matter, it has enough range not to care about shield pushback and it comes out pretty quickly.

(I'm not too sure why but I managed to shieldgrab Pika's FF Fair sometimes whereas some other times, Pika would just be too low for me to grab. I don't know if we can grab them out of it all the time, provided that we grab early enough, or if they can time their FF Fair so that we can't)

In Neutral
Most Pikachus will use their Neutral B to cover an approach. Our Nair beats it and can stop a grounded approach, but make sure you space it and FF to make sure you can jab/Dtilt before they grab you out of it.
You can also Forward Vision the neutral B if they're right behind it, but the risk/reward ratio isn't really good since at best you hit them with a soft hit (maybe with power vision, though ?), and at worst they spotdodge it and you get punished so I don't recommend it.

I haven't faced any really campy Pikachu yet, but I guess we can just approach them by walking->shield, and Utilt them if they're still in the air.

At low %, you want to avoid Pika's Utilt (same for FF Fair), it sets up some pretty nasty combos that can end up in an edgeguard. But Pika's damage per hit is actually pretty close to Sheik's, so combos usually don't hurt as much as they seem to. You might wanna avoid Jump art at low % though, because of the debuff.

Dtilt is pretty good, especially in Buster for the shieldstun. Shulk's range in general is a huge asset.

Advantage
If you get positional advantage, now is the time to watch out for these nasty Quick Attacks. If they're recovering near the ledge and you're close to it, chances are that they're gonna QA to the center of the stage. You can beat it with Bair, Fair, Nair or Utilt. You can also try to bait them into doing it while you're in Speed Art, shield it and punish them afterwards but QA doesn't have that much ending lag so it's usually not worth it.

Utilt in general is really good in this MU. Especially in Buster and Smash. You could bring them to 80% and try to kill them by punishing something in Smash Art, or you could just bring them up to around 110% and kill with Smash Utilt or Air Slash, which is much easier to do especially when you have positional advantage. My main kill moves in this MU are these two and Bair (Bair is awesome against QA)

Btw, edgeguarding Pikachu below the stage is really risky since he has so many tools to turn things around and take our place as the edgeguarder. So I wouldn't go for it unless I'm absolutely sure that I'm not over commiting (like, if he FF's an air dodge right in front of me for example) or unless I'm in Jump mode.

Disadvantage
Alright, so you got hit by an UpTilt. It's pretty much 20-30% guaranteed from there, so if you're in Buster or Jump, it's a good idea to try and cancel the mode between two hits.

When you get grabbed at mid/high %, DI so that you don't get caught by Uthrow > DownB, that thing is silly.

When thrown offstage, I like to use defensive Fairs to prevent Pikachu from coming in with a Nair or a Dair. They might try to get you with a neutral B too and there again, I feel like Fair is a better option than airdodge. Watch out for their downB offstage as well, it's their main option to get you if you're recovering high with Jump (here you gotta airdodge )

If you recover low, they can drop down and use their Bair. This move is a pain to deal with. It lasts long enough to hit you out of an airdodge, and it can send you either left or right. Which means that if you predict that you'll need to tech and it sends you the other way, you just airdodged to your death. :/


I initially wanted to do a paragraph about arts usage, but I don't have much to say about it for this MU =/ I usually start in Speed, go to Buster whenever it runs out, and use Smash for Air Slash/Utilt/Bair kills. There's probably more to the match-up than that, I'm mostly using a generic art rotation for now.
I've been getting some kills with Jump Fairs though, lately.
I tried Shield once at low % to try and get some positional advantage while shutting down Pika's combo game, but it didn't work too well. Maybe I wasn't punishing unsafe on hit attacks with the right move ? I'll try that strategy again next time I play ^^


I'll try coming back with more info next time I play against Lucar

(Oh, and btw sorry if my English is a little shaky, it might be since I don't usually do big write ups like that xD)

Great information!

I can recommend Monado Shield at low percents. It saved me from Pika's U-throw -> U-tilt which usually true combos (I used a counter to escape). Also, later when I was at around 40%ish, it saved me from Pikachu's F-throw -> Dash attack true combo.

Also, guys, makes sure to tech or jump after Pika's F-throw. If you are Vanilla Shulk, at 8% Pikachu's F-throw puts you into a position where you either need to jump before you hit the ground or tech as you hit the ground. I just watched a pikachu combo video where like 1/3 of the combos were jab locks which were set-up from people not teching the F-throw. Just for reference, if you are in Monado Shield, you will not be put into that position until you are at 85% damage.

 

[TheHopefulHero]

The only tip I have that's not already said is watch out for Pika's Thunder Jolt (Standard B). A well placed Thunder Jolt can force Shulk to take a defensive option or he risks getting hit. Pika can use this time to go for a grab combo or move around for a better position. Pika can also be a jerk and place it to gimp us in certain situations (especially during mid Air Slash)

As for Arts, I'd say that each Art can be used safely for their roles. Jump and Speed let us dance around for an opening, Shield lets us live from most of Pika's attacks, Buster can let Shulk go offensive for more damage (although that might be hard since Pika is small target), and Smash can be used more often since Pika's very light.

 

[relaxedexcorcist]

I'm not really a fan of this match-up. Think it's in Pikachu's favor, being short and mobile makes a lot of things tough to punish and deal with. Not to mention Shulk is combo food.

Apologies before hand but this post is gonna be filled with a bunch of "Maybes" and "I thinks." I only get to play one good Pikachu and it's not very often. So don't take all of this as 100% true.

As mentioned earlier, a lot of Pika's aerials and other moves (fair and bair are what give me the most trouble) cause him to duck many of Shulk's moves as he lands bar D-tilt, D-smash, and Air Slash. Two moves can't be done out of shield and Air Slash requires quite the commitment. Not being able to reliable use Shulks fastest and safer offensive options to punish landings (jab and grab) against someone who has fast a low commitment options is a huge pain.

Pikachu on the other hand, has what seem to be amazing out of shield options (at least in comparison to Shulk), OoS nair is fast and he can use it to punish mis-spaced hits easily, or just quickly retreat. He can also Usmash for the hard punishes.

However, I don't think the match up gets super difficult until Pikachu starts abusing Quick Attack. If the Pikachu doesn't use Quick Attack a lot then the match up is pretty doable just sort of annoying. Once Pikachu starts using his damaging burst mobility option that cant easily be reacted too that also like a very small amount of landing lag, can be ledge canceled and also seems to have followups, this match up becomes really painful. It basically just lets Pikachu get in or run away whenever he wants.

Some things that are kinda annoying to deal with:

• F-smash from Pikachu might be safe on whiff or block unless Speed is on or Shulk powershields the hit or was already about to hit Pika. I don't think I've ever been able to punish an F-Smash with anything that would really hurt either. Just a throw usually.
• Quick Attack can't really be reacted to. You sorta have to guess where they'll be if you think Pikas gonna use it. Utilt seems decent for this since the hitbox lingers a bit and like most of Shulks moves, is big. If you have the player's Quick Attack habits downloaded though you can Usmash them out of it pretty easily.
• Pika can combo into I think U-smash and U-tilt out of landing fairs kinda similar to Ness (though unlike Ness he's short and fast enough that its pretty safe on block in this match up) If I remember what I was told correctly, you can DI up to make the combo not 100% guaranteed.
• Pika is supposedly really good at dem gimps. Not many Pikachus actual try doing it to me though. Maybe the large swords a bit to hard to deal with for Pika in offstage situations but I'm not sure cause I don't play Pika.

Some good things in this match up:

• Sword is still big. Pika does have to respect since his range isn't amazing
• All Monado Arts have their use here I think. Not really any Art that Pikachu kinda discourages Shulk from using. Jump and Speed give the mobility boost that'll help Shulk keep playing safe. Shield will not let Pika KO you without a gimp. Buster is safeish since pikas damage per hit isn't amazing (though someone feel free to correct me on that), and Smash works super well since Pika is pretty light and has problems with his low KO power.
• Pika has meh KO set ups? Kinda iffy on this. For starters I'm not including customs cause I know little about them. None of his aerials are that good at KOing outright, so he needs to either gimp, land F-Smash, U-Smash or the second hit of Thunder. U-throw -> Thunder can be DI'd to the left or right, just watch out sometimes Pikachu will try to read the direction and just move a bit to catch you with the Thunder. I don't know if the Fair -> Usmash is super reliable with previous knowledge of it, and I don't think he has anyway to set-up an F-smash.

So I think for this match-up Shulk probably wants to play as safe as possible. Try to intercept or move instead of block since Pika's annoyingly safe on shield here. Maybe go for Smash mode often to try and secure a kill early, but don't over commit to the mode. Use Jump and Speed to stay safe.

What I have absolutely no idea about at all is what stages we should be taking Pika. I was thinking Lylat would be good cause Quick Attack seems like the type of recovery that would get ruined by Lylat, but apparently Pika loves that stage. Maybe Battlefield to restrict Quick Attack (unless they got their ledge cancls down) or Delfino or Castle Siege to remove Pika's ability to gimp.

 

[Berserker.]

Video of Shulk vs Pikachu:

One of my favorite match ups in this game. Feels even. Could be anyone's favor. Shulk's range makes it difficult for Pikachu especially since Pikachu lacks range. Got nothing much to add though other than Smash art being a surprise threat to Pikachu because you can really KO Pikachu at low percentages with one good d-smash/u-smash/f-smash or b-air at mid-high percentages

 

[kenniky]

Can I just say I think all matchup threads should be titled like this with a direct reference to Xenoblade, makes the boards seem a lot more in the Shulk spirit

Anyway I should probably contribute something besides that so uhh

No one's talked about customs yet so let's go theorycrafting

Pika sets:

1311
2311
2312
1312
1313
1331
2313
2331
3311
1321

Something to notice right away is that Pikas like Heavy Skull Bash. Pretty obvious, gives them a kill option. Don't try to counter this because it's chargeable and you will cry (although if you do somehow get off a counter they're probably dead due to Heavy Skull Bash power + Power Vision lols + lightweight). Run away from Pika if HSB comes out.

Thunder Wave is used a lot, treat this like Paralyzer I guess. Pikas will go for a grab most likely? That's what ZSS's do, covers opponent getting hit and shielding it. Also usmash on hit but nothing you can do in that position

Quick Feet is used a bit? idk anything about Quick Feet

Distant Thunder and Thunder Burst are also both used. Be wary of Thunder and Distant Thunder the same way you should be wary of Palutena's usmash. Don't get directly above Pika. Thunder Burst I guess is ok? All Thunders are pretty laggy though

Also jablocking is a thing, so keep that in mind. jab -> fsmash or HSB especially

As for arts, stick to movements I think (Jump and Speed) to keep up with Pikachu, you do NOT want Pikachu too close to you. Shield and Buster don't seem too good due to Shield is sad against combos at percents where you take hitstun and Buster is sad when you can't space properly. Smash seems ok I guess?

hopefully I said something useful in there

 

[erico9001]

Well, Decisive Shield is amazing for this match-up. It will get out of most combos Pikachu tries against you, similar to regular shield but better.