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Stuff to practise with foxxy.

Orancube

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
26
Location
Netherlands
Hi guys,

I registered here a long time ago, but recently picked up melee in a more competitive setting.

Decided to main fox, because I feel like he's a very solid character to start with (whilst also being one of the hardest) regarding tech skill, reading, and punishing accordingly.

I have some general questions.

SHFFLING: I can shffl with most chars, but with fox because of the 2 frame release remains difficult. Sometimes I find myself wanting to tap so fast that my thumb doesn't even press the button. I used to short hop with X, sliding my thumb off the side, this worked pretty well, but my thumb started to get really sore, and it's harder to get to the B button. People who SH with Y, do you tap the button, or slide off it? Because tapping seems hard to do consistently for me, and sliding on Y is not working at all for me. Any tips on how to practise this? Also do you use the c-stick for SH DAIRs?

Wavedashing: I've made alot of progress in this, however... still hard to do consistently especially when you want to do several in a row. Do you have to shorthop to wavedash? Because I feel like I'm fullhopping but dodging quick and I THINK I've gotten perfect wavedashes this way. Any tips on this?

Wavelanding on platforms: How can I practise this, because it seems like It's pretty random when I land them, also I have little control over how far I land forward/backwards. Also, when I got these down, how exactly do you start integrating them in combo's?

Are there any things I could/should be practising in solo-mode?

Thanks for your time :).
 

mecawe

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
37
Location
Longueuil, QC
I'm glad you posted this, I have the same questions. I just have one thing to add: do people use analog stick to jump sometimes or it's only x or y?
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
11,635
Location
Maryland
SHFFLING: I can shffl with most chars, but with fox because of the 2 frame release remains difficult. Sometimes I find myself wanting to tap so fast that my thumb doesn't even press the button. I used to short hop with X, sliding my thumb off the side, this worked pretty well, but my thumb started to get really sore, and it's harder to get to the B button. People who SH with Y, do you tap the button, or slide off it? Because tapping seems hard to do consistently for me, and sliding on Y is not working at all for me. Any tips on how to practise this? Also do you use the c-stick for SH DAIRs?
I explained this in a guide I made a long time ago: http://www.smashboards.com/threads/omnis-guide-to-mastering-fox-v-4-5-update-vs-ice-climbers.60570/

To reiterate here, just realize that you can press the button as hard as you want. It's simply about how fast you release the button. So practice just SH'ing across the stage with X or Y (doesn't matter). Don't even bother trying to throw in aerials until you're comfortable with SH'ing with 100% consistency.

And yes, you will use the c-stick for all your SHFFL'd aerials except n-air.

Wavedashing: I've made alot of progress in this, however... still hard to do consistently especially when you want to do several in a row. Do you have to shorthop to wavedash? Because I feel like I'm fullhopping but dodging quick and I THINK I've gotten perfect wavedashes this way. Any tips on this?
Doesn't matter if your full hop or short hop. What matters is the angle of your control pad and the timing of when you air dodge after the initial jump. It's a very fluid motion; one that you'll learn with just practicing it until you start finding the sweet spot. Once you find the sweet spot, keep hitting it until it feels like second nature.

Wavelanding on platforms: How can I practise this, because it seems like It's pretty random when I land them, also I have little control over how far I land forward/backwards. Also, when I got these down, how exactly do you start integrating them in combo's?
Don't bother practicing this if you can't wavedash or SH properly. Wavelanding isn't nearly as resourceful as some of the tools you've yet to begin practicing.

Are there any things I could/should be practising in solo-mode?
Read the guide.
 

Omni

You can't break those cuffs.
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
11,635
Location
Maryland
Won't let me edit, but just read this both of you:

BEGINNER FOX

Lesson I - Short Hopping
------------------------------------
Go to practice mode and literally short hop around the screen. Short hop at different lengths and at different speeds, but simply master this movement. It's REQUIRED. An effective way of doing this is pressing the X or Y button as fast as you can. The time it takes for you to release the X/Y button after pressing it determines if Fox does a full jump or a short jump. Pressing the X/Y button hard or softly has nothing to do with it.

After you're able to short hop vertically consistently, practice SH'ing horizantally at different lengths. If you SH and tilt the control stick left or right, you will cover a small jump distance. However, if you dash, and during the middle of the initiation of the dash sequence JUMP, you'll cover a much larger, favorable distance. Practice.
Goal : Short hop in any direction at any (restrained) distance without effort.


Lesson II - L-Cancelling and Fast Falling
----------------------------------------------------
Go into any mode and practice L-cancelling all of Fox's aerials INCLUDING his neutral-a. Also, be sure to Fast Fall your attacks to limit the amount of time you spend in the air. A basic example is to simply jump into the air, fast fall with a neutral-a, and then l-cancel it.
Goal: L-Cancel fast fallen aerials without effort.

*Note:* If you're not sure if you're L-Cancelling correctly, simply press A IMMEDIATELY after landing an attempted l-cancel attack. If the jab doesn't come out, you're either pressing A way too fast, or you didn't L-cancel. A more noticable difference is to shine immediately after any L-Cancelled move. If you're able to shine IMMEDIATELY after the aerial, you'll notice that your opponent had no opportunity to retaliate.


Lesson III - (S)hort (H)op, (F)ast (F)all, (L)-(C)ancel (SHFFLC'ing)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fox's bread and butter. You want to apply what you learned from Lesson I and Lesson II and combine them. This may take a week or so to truly master unless you have above average finger dexterity. The procedure here is doing a short hop, an aerial attack, fast falling, and then L-Cancelling. In the beginning, you may omit the fast falling procedure IF YOU CHOOSE, but eventually you want to be able to combine all the elements above.
Goal: SHFFLC'ing around the screen without stopping and maintaining the same speed without effort.

*NOTE:* The timing to SHFFLC'ing is different when a character attacks air as opposed to an opponent. You'll notice the timing is CONSIDERABLY different with Fox's Drill Kick (D-AIR) because he hits his opponent several times before landing, keeping him in the air longer than usual. Because of this, I suggest for this lesson, OMIT FOX'S DRILL KICK. Why?


Lesson IV - L-Cancelling the Drill Kick
-------------------------------------------------
Because it's a lesson in itself! However, once you master this lesson, I guarantee you that L-Cancelling with ANY character will be a piece of cake. Notice that I didn't include short hopping in this lesson. This is because I believe that is a more advanced technique that should be practiced later. The problem with the Drill Kick is that the rate at which you leave the ground, attack, and land changes constantly according to how much of the Drill Kick actually hits your opponent. Also, the amout of time it takes for a completely vertical drill kick (a drill kick coming directly above the opponent), and a completely horizantal drill kick (a drill kick coming directly across from the opponent) is substantial.

So here's what you need to understand in order to master this technique: Press L when Fox's feet hits the ground. WTF? Sounds simple enough. That's what people normally do when they L-Cancel, right? Yes AND no. With most of Fox's attacks, you can predict easily when you touch the ground and L-Cancel accordingly to the point where you can SHFFLC without looking. The reason most people can't L-Cancel Fox's Drill Kick well is because they press L while he's still doing the move! With the Drill Kick, you're going to have to focus less on the timing of a series of button presses, and focus more on Fox's landing.

If you understood the above paragraph, here's how you master the move: I like practicing on an opponent who's not moving so I suggest either practice mode or VS mode with a controller in the 2nd player port (making the character stand still). That stage with the UFO on it has a wall so place the idle character against the wall so they don't move. FIRST, practice the vertical drill kick. Stand right next to your opponent, hop into the air (you DON'T have to short hop), then fast fall and drill kick all at once. Pay attention to when Fox actually hits the ground L-Cancel accordingly. Then switch to short hopping. Repeat until you're comfortable.

JUST PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.

Goal: L-Cancelling Fox's Drill Kick effortlessly.



Lesson V - L-Cancelling into Shine
----------------------------------------------
My favorite part of the lesson. If you can master Lesson's I-V, you'll have a solid Fox. Lessons I-IV is pointless if your opponent simply shieldgrabs it. Also, applying Fox's shine after a completed SHFFLC'ing leads into countless amount of opportunities to attack again! (Now you see why Fox is top tier.) The shine provides a safe escape route and/or another opportunity to deal some damage. Don't forget that there are other options out of the SHFFLC'ing such as grabbing, sidestepping, etc. If you don't mix your options together, you'll become predictable.

Now pay attention. This is extremely complicated. You ready?

After a SHFFLC'ing aerial... shine. ...That's it. In case you're unaware, Fox's shine can be canceled with a jump (known as Jump-Cancelling). That's a GOOD thing. You'll find out why later.

Goal: Performing a successful shine after an L-Cancelled aerial.



INTERMEDIATE FOX

Lesson I - Wavedashing
-------------------------------------
You're probably wondering why we're just now getting to the wavedash. My reasoning is simple really. You see, a lot of newbies want to master this very sexy technique, but they have no idea how to use it. Do you know how many newbies I see wavedashing across the screen right into my fist? Wavedashing is a fairly easy technique, but it's been placed in the Intermediate section simply because only Intermediate Fox's will be able to exploit the spoils of this move. What's a good example? Let's say running the United States is wavedashing. That makes George Bush Fox. In this case, Fox is a noob because he's been given the power to wavedash, but he fails to use it correctly. GREAT! Moving on.

Fox has a great wavedash. It's fast and covers a decent length. Because the amout of frames it takes for Fox to leave the ground after the initial input of pressing the jump button is so small, Fox responds to the input almost instantly. This means as soon as you jump, you're literally air-dodging backwards RIGHT after you jumped. Because wavedashing is a universal technique, I'll just explain how you know you're successfully doing it with Fox.

When Fox air-dodges, he makes this "OH TA!" sound with it. When you first start wavedashing, you'll probably hear him saying "OH TA!" alot. This will occur either because you didn't air-dodge fast enough after the initial jump OR the angle of the analog stick isn't slanted downard enough. You know you've wavedashed correctly if Fox slides backwards without making any sound. Go into practice mode and practice.

Goal: Wavedashing instinctively in any direction on command.


Lesson II - Waveshining
--------------------------------------
Waveshining is essential to higher levels of play with Fox. If you recall in the Beginner section, we ended with Shining. Since I assume you already know what Waveshining is, I won't go into what it looks like, but I will explain its uses for a brief moment.

Waveshining enables Fox to "chase" after his opponent after a successful shine hit. His wavedash is long enough to be in smash range with some characters (Link, Shiek) melee range with others (Marth), and no range at all with a small few (Luigi). The reason why this technique is outstanding is because it allows a free hit/grab. I can't stress enough the importance of a free hit/grab because Fox has the capability to turn the tide with one. I'll leave the options after a waveshine for you to discover but some popular ones are waveshine ---> upsmash and waveshine --> grab --> upthrow --> up-air.

Mastering the waveshine is no walk in the park. You're probably not going to be able to do it consistently for a while. Even if you're able to execute it once, you'll most likely won't be able to follow up with another waveshine right after. This technique requires that you move your fingers very fast and accurately and in my opinion, this technique seperates a decent Fox from a good Fox. To start go into Practice mode and choose Link as your opponent and FD as your practice stage. "Push" him to the edge of stage and leave enough room for you to stand behind him.

What you want to do now is understand that a waveshine is a SHINE + A WAVEDASH. Understand that you are simply doing a wavedash after you have done a shine. Once you understand what it is you're doing, try attempting one waveshine. If you failed, DON'T WORRY. You can wavedash anytime during your shine so in the beginning of your training, concentrate on accuracy and not speed. Eventually after you get the mechanics down, speed up. Also note that when you shine Link and wavedash afterwards, you SHOULD be in shine range again without moving. If you're not, you're not wavedashing properly.

If you can waveshine and get into Link's range, then you're halfway there. Gradually decrease the time between the shine and the wavedash. You'll know you've done it perfectly if you waveshine Link, quickly up-smash, and the status bar on the top left of the screen says you've done a 2-hit combo. Once you've mastered this step, *legally* you're allowed to stop. You've technically learned enough about the waveshine to use it effectively, but if you want to truly master it, then practice waveshing into another waveshine. You can do this with no retaliation from certain opponents across the entire screen.

Goal: Waveshing quickly and accurately enough to gain access to a free hit/grab without retaliation on command.
 

Orancube

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
26
Location
Netherlands
Thanks Omni!
I'm actually able to hit drillkicks -> shine -> wavedash -> upsmash (or whatever).
But not constistently at all!
Guess I got to put in the hours :p, very helpfull guide!
 

Orancube

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
26
Location
Netherlands
The mechanics are simple.
You jump, and airdodge.
You can control the momentum of our air dodge.
When you air dodge into the ground, you make a sliding motion.
This is wavedashing.

So: Jump -> Airdodge towards ground (with a left or right angle, depends in what direction you want to dash).

Quick visual guide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q6X-Oo5wBo
 
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