Struggling in the neutral as falco

[Goodin]

As funny as it sounds, with falco having lasers and all, I actually feel like I lose to people because I have a bad neutral game. I have a horrible time with getting grabbed. What I tend to do it shoot a few lasers to put them in shield and then go in with a shffl nair + shine in attempt to start shield pressure. but I usually get shield grabbed either before the shine ( and its not due to me failing the L cancel, its due to the nair hitting their shield high) or they just wavedash back and grab me. It has taken me too long to figure out that nair shine is garbage for approaching an opponent in most situations, and now I am pretty interested in what alternatives i can throw in to mix things up.

After I put the opponent in their shield, what are some of the safest and most effective ways to put the game back in my control.

All in all I am looking for 2 things:
1) When I have an opponent locked in shield stun after a laser, what are the best options, rather than nairing and getting grabbed. I feel like falcos throw just put me back in the neutral again, so if grabbing their shield is a good option, explain to me how i can follow up out of certain throws.
2) If I manage to hit an opponent with a laser and I am near enough to do something while they are in hit stun, what are my best options to start combos.

***Also, what is the significance of making the nair very early in shine > nair on shields. Most good players I see nair as soon as the jump out of shine.

 

[FriendGuy]

I've always been told the more important part of the aerial in this situation is where it hits, not when you whip it out. Like for dair>shine, I was told aim for halfway down their shield. Not sure if nair shine is any different.

 

[Goodin]

I've always been told the more important part of the aerial in this situation is where it hits, not when you whip it out. Like for dair>shine, I was told aim for halfway down their shield. Not sure if nair shine is any different.

yah, u gotta aim further down on the shiel so u can trap them with the shine or hit their grab. im more or less just struggling to get into a position where i can approach the shield safely without being in danger of a wavedash OoS or something.

I also learned how to do the nair approach I was complaining about in my original post, but im going to try to stay grounded in the neutral as much as i can.

 

[pheijai]

you can.....

empty hop -> waveland -> grab -> do w/e you want from there
tomahawk -> grab

if you are close enough... shield pressure.

if you are in front of the opponent. you can waveshine and end up behind them so they can't grab you at all and apply shield pressure from behind

 

[JCBeef]

You have a couple options obviously there is grab if they're in shield this may be the safest option but if you believe you can get more here are some other options.

1.) Laser into them to approach then space outside of them and dash dance a little bit then go in with a nair. Delaying your approach with the dash dance often causes them to get a little confused and try to jump outta shield to get you or something like that as if they have an opening, but they just opened themselves up by jumping out of shield so you just neutral air them or down air them or whatever you want. so
Laser -> Laser-> (Any # of lasers w/e) -> Dash dance outside of their out of shield options range and shield grab -> Go in with nair
OR
Laser -> Laser-> (Any # of lasers w/e) -> Dash dance outside of their out of shield options range and shield grab -> Grab

The second option is for if they either aren't jumping into your stuff or if they are catching on and somehow punishing you, so it's just to mix up.
Or if you don't feel safe you can dash out again and keep lasering to just reset neutral.

2.) Nair Cross ups. For some reason I have found this to work pretty well in opening people up. If you nair around the top of their shield you can pass through them so that they can't shield grab or more easily punish you. You can then dash back and grab if they don't react quickly enough but this can also be punished if they're not scared of you. You could also try the Nair pass through their shield then something like uptilt and if they try to punish you they get hit by uptilt. If you miss the uptilt (they keep shielding) you may get punished though. The nair cross up is also good for getting on the other side of the person so you can't get grabbed which makes it easier to shield pressure.


- Also try to get more off your grabs just as a characteristic of the character people are going to probably be in their shields a decent bit against you, so grabs go a long way. You can set up down throw tech chases these are pretty easy to read (At least at my level) if you down throw people will usually tech inwards so just run that way and hit 'em with a down air or something. If they tech in place they can counter attack you so if they do this you may still be able to shield and grab them again. IDK i still get messed up my tech in place counter attacks more than I should.

On upthrows you can often convert into back air or neutral air on fast fallers. With forward throw if you're quick you can get another grab but if they realize this they may start doing stuff after the throw in which case instead of trying to grab again you can reset neutral with lasers only now you have more stage control or you can try to stuff them with a nair.

I still need to learn more about backthrow uses. It can be good on some chars if they mess up DI you just keep doing back throws though lol.

 

[Red Rice]

Too lazy to read replies so idk if anyone said this yet...

But when you want to mix up your approaches from shine nairs you can also do
Laser -> grab
Laser -> F-tilt
Laser -> Shine
Running shine -> nair -> shield pressure (Mango does this a lot)

 

[daftHERO]

If you are getting grabbed before your shine, get the 20xx hack pack and set the bot to infinite shield > shield grab.

 

[-Dubs]

You don't always have to approach after shooting a laser. A SHFFL right after a laser is very predictable and not safe on shield.