Strategy! - Countering Wolf's F-Smash

[scalpel]

Hi there. Has anyone ever fought against a Wolf player who spams his annoying forward smash attack? It's so annoying! Well, I found a great way to counter it.

When Wolf is approaching Olimar with a forward smash, simply use Olimar's Up-Tilt. Olimar will hop up and spin, like a spin-top toy. It out-prioritizes Wolf's entire forward smash. You will not receive any damage at all, plus you will also punish Wolf's spamming.

Usually, whenever I see Wolf approaching me, I just rapidly do Olimar's Up-Tilt about two or three times, and usually the opponent becomes hesitant to approach me. It's great for mind games, and it's a great way to defend yourself against that annoying smash. I hope this helps.

Notes:

1) This is a very important piece of information I left out. Olimar's Up-Tilt only out-prioritizes Wolf's forward smash DURING THE UPWARDS ANIMATION. While Olimar is spinning up into the air, it will counter Wolf's forward smash. During the animation when Olimar is landing, however, Olimar is still susceptible to getting hit by Wolf's forward smash. Therefore, Olimar must time his Up-Tilt a little, in order to avoid getting caught by Wolf's forward smash while Olimar is landing. It does not require PRECISE TIMING, though, as Olimar's Up-Tilt will out-prioritize Wolf's forward smash any time during the upwards animation.

2) Please don't get confused between Olimar's up-tilt and his neutral-air attacks. Both of these attacks look very similar. However, Olimar's neutral-air is used in the air, whereas his up-tilt is used directly on the ground. He twirls in both of the attacking animations, but the up-tilt looks like a VERY short-hopped neutral air, and he also spins faster with the up-tilt. My strategy to counter Wolf's forward-smash utilizes Olimar's up-tilt, and not his neutral-air.

3) Notice that I didn't claim this strategy as my own, and named it the "GAZELLIAN WOLF CANCEL HYPHEN CROSS MULTIPLY SMASH COMBO" or something even more ridiculous. Why do so many people feel like they must claim a strategy, and moreover, brand it with a superfluous name? The strategy that I proposed to counter Wolf is just me sharing some friendly advice to fellow Olimar-users.

 

[Kabuto Mushi]

Thanks- all of your topics are good advice, I think. However you should really have put them all in one thread... otherwise people will yell at you. >.>

I'll be sure to try this out for myself soon. Apparently Wolf is quite the annoying character...

 

[The_NZA]

at higher percents, i suggest you just whistle to Upsmash or Downsmash. I have a feeling its easy to catch the forward smash with a whistle.

 

[nmaster64]

lol, that awesome tilt actually outprioritizes Wolf's fSmash? Even at it's max range?

Epic. Thanks for pointing that out...

 

[Pyr0]

Shield + Grab + Dthrow + Fair + spike + moar

What better punishment than that?

 

[scalpel]

Shield + Grab + Dthrow + Fair + spike + moar

What better punishment than that?

Hi there, Pyr0. You're absolutely right. Olimar has many options for punishing opponents. That's one of Olimar's specialties. However, I just wanted to point out even MORE options for Olimar to wreak havoc, specifically against a Wolf player. The fact that Olimar's Up-Tilt out-prioritizes Wolf's forward smash is, in my opinion, amazing! Just a regular, plain-old tilt attack can totally counter an opponent's smash attack? How cool is that? Great for mind games.

 

[robman1]

This is great. I tend to over grab but with this I'll be able to diversify my move set a little bit

 

[NC-Echo]

Good to know. Thanks for the info Gazelle.

 

[Capt. Oli]

Good for variety, but usually there are better options than up-tilt.

 

[Rejjae]

If up-tilt can out prioritize his Smash, wouldn't it be able to out prioritize a lot of his other moves, letting you spam it against all their moves for the sole purpose of annoying them?

 

[scalpel]

If up-tilt can out prioritize his Smash, wouldn't it be able to out prioritize a lot of his other moves, letting you spam it against all their moves for the sole purpose of annoying them?

Hey there, mate. Your logic is absolutely correct, but it really doesn't counter all of Wolf's moves. For some strange reason, Olimar's Up-Tilt seems to only counter Wolf's forward smash.

I've also been testing Olimar's Up-Tilt against other characters to see if it can counter anything else. So, if you see me online and I'm twirling around like an idiot, waiting for someone to approach me, you will know what I am doing.

 

[Pink4Life]

Thanks for the tip. Spam Wolfs are hard to approach. Usually i just do a turn around grab, but using up-tilt is a good idea. But i gots a question. What do you do when a wolf Spams laser, then when you get close, goes to f-smash or up-b in your direction. No Character should eb able to win with laser spam, but wolf does (Exlcuding Falco)

 

[Newtwarrior]

thanks for the info gazelle, your single post move forums are interesting.. in numbers, but otoh its not SPAM.
I have yet to run into a serious wolf player, spams forward A you say? Sounds like Ike. To bad I can't attempt to totally mind game Ike, wolf from what I've played, hits hard, but doesn't come close to ike, I can survive @ 66% forward wolf A, ike, I die.

FFKJKLDS ike.

 

[scalpel]

Thanks for the tip. Spam Wolfs are hard to approach. Usually i just do a turn around grab, but using up-tilt is a good idea. But i gots a question. What do you do when a wolf Spams laser, then when you get close, goes to f-smash or up-b in your direction. No Character should eb able to win with laser spam, but wolf does (Exlcuding Falco)

Hi there, mate. Well, I treat a laser-spamming Wolf the same way I treat any projectile spammer. Jump straight up into the air to avoid getting hit by the lasers, and throw Pikmin at them. Most of the time, you don't even need to get any Pikmin to latch on. The action of simply throwing the Pikmin makes Wolf users hesitant. They think a Pikmin will get on them, so they try to avoid it, and stop spamming lasers. This gives you a chance to get in and attack. The other possibility is that your Pikmin will, indeed, latch onto Wolf. Then, the Wolf user has a choice of letting the Pikmin attack him, or he can stop spamming lasers and try knocking them off. Either scenario, you're damaging Wolf and making opportunities for yourself to enter. I hope that helps, mate!

 

[snowbonez]

wolf's easy

 

[Pink4Life]

Thanx... Snowbonez your insight is truly a help >.>
but Gaz, the wolf i play against isnt Stoopid. He understands that my pikmin throw cant hurt him, becuase his laser has its own hitbox. So even if pikmin latch, my pikmin will get knocked off and die. How do you beat a spam that stops your pikmin :*(

 

[FmAiGkGeO]

Good information, but to be honest if someone is spamming the wolf f-smash then it shouldn't too hard to mind game them. That's nub techniques to spam the same thing over and over. Good thing has higher priority though.

Usually when people try to pull defensive moves on wolf to me I just stand back and pop out some laser shots.

 

[Rejjae]

Thanx... Snowbonez your insight is truly a help >.>
but Gaz, the wolf i play against isnt Stoopid. He understands that my pikmin throw cant hurt him, becuase his laser has its own hitbox. So even if pikmin latch, my pikmin will get knocked off and die. How do you beat a spam that stops your pikmin :*(

Just throw pikim anyways, they'll still do damage before he hits them off with the gun if they latch on at the right time.

 

[zelazon]

trust me, the up tilt is good, but not good enough to put out fast enough before you get punished by a down smash, or something else if the wolf play is quick enough to realize.

I've have people try to switch to wolf to try to counter olimar, but I still figure out ways past them.

Shield grabbing is ur friend here, and is going to give you most priority during the lenth of the match. But ur probably wondering how to get past the lazer right? well, you have two option. One is to time your rolls correctly, or to perfect sheild to draw the wolf player out. Now you need to realize the distance of wolf Fsmash, and prepare to block grab when you can. The textbook combo is a very handy combo when it come to punishing a wolf player, and when you can, hit him with Fair and Bair when wolf is open in the air.

 

[Newtwarrior]

I'm bumping this thread now because it needs to be.
I fought a "good" wolf player today, and either it was my lack of experience of fighting wolf or what (people i fight even through SWF finder are always ike, lucas, marth. )
He also lagged like a mofo (at least at my end) he had a red connection go figure, but I'm not gonna blame lag to much, though, olimar is one of those chars that is hard to manage w/o full FPS


Either way, his forward A was extremely annoying, and midfights he found out b spam works to, it was so stupid, and how these 2 moves have so much priority, he'd corner me to an edge, and bam, I'm stuck, lazer spam moar. It was truly total BS.

Jumping did minimal, as he just spammed forward A where i was going to land.

Though, he never EVER choose FD as a fighting spot, out of 7 brawls his stages got picked 6/7 times.. smashville is defintely a wolf friendly place, the center in general is small, and his FA has a freakin LONG reach.

The Ultimate Counter Character.
Wolf.
F*CK him.

 

[S2]

Interesting, I'll have to try that.

Know if I can just find out what to do about his f-smash when playing certain other characters (zelda, cough).

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

very useful thanks

 

[Awesomethreat]

Nice tip, I'll be sure to remember that.

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

tested this at a tourney today, not as efficient as I had hoped AT LOW PERCENTAGE

the u-tilt barely knocks them back and they have plenty of time to get back on their feet and are in perfect range for another f-smash by the time you land from the tilt

also if your timing isnt perfect with the u-tilt they can/will sneak inside during your lag time

the best thing do to vs a good wolf f-smash spammer(AT LOW PERCENTAGE) is to shield grab spam them when they go for the f-smash just at its farthest range. if they are really close, the distance of the smash will go right through you... so shield grabbing is out

at high percent this technique works excellent
all in all its tough to get away from it

 

[scalpel]

tested this at a tourney today, not as efficient as I had hoped AT LOW PERCENTAGE

the u-tilt barely knocks them back and they have plenty of time to get back on their feet and are in perfect range for another f-smash by the time you land from the tilt

also if your timing isnt perfect with the u-tilt they can/will sneak inside during your lag time

the best thing do to vs a good wolf f-smash spammer(AT LOW PERCENTAGE) is to shield grab spam them when they go for the f-smash just at its farthest range. if they are really close, the distance of the smash will go right through you... so shield grabbing is out

at high percent this technique works excellent
all in all its tough to get away from it

Thank you for the information, mate. You're right, this technique is not great at low percentages because, even when Olimar's Up-Tilt connects with Wolf, he will not be launched into the air high enough for Olimar to transition into a different attack. At low percentages, I find myself Up-Tilting two or three times when Wolf is approaching me with his Forward smash. When one Up-Tilt connects, I continue to Up-Tilt until Wolf backs away. That gives me enough space to do something else. I admit, however, that I'm basically stuck Up-Tilting until Wolf decides to back off at low percentages.

At higher percentages, like 50-70%, I strongly believe Up-Tilting is a great counter to his Forward smash because it launches Wolf into the air high enough for Olimar to take control of the stage. From there, Olimar can roll away and attack, set up a combo, do aerials, whatever.

EDIT: One VERY important thing I forgot to mention about Olimar's Up-Tilt counter. Olimar's Up-Tilt only out-prioritizes Wolf's Forward smash during the animation when Olimar is twirling UP into the air. During the landing animation, however, Olimar is susceptible to getting hit by Wolf's forward smash. This means that Olimar must time the Up-Tilt a bit. It does not involve PERFECT timing, though, because the Up-Tilt out-prioritizes Wolf's forward smash anytime during the upwards animation. This is great because there's a higher probability of countering than not.

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

EDIT: One VERY important thing I forgot to mention about Olimar's Up-Tilt counter. Olimar's Up-Tilt only out-prioritizes Wolf's Forward smash during the animation when Olimar is twirling UP into the air. During the landing animation, however, Olimar is susceptible to getting hit by Wolf's forward smash.

yes, I noticed this as well... I kept getting hit on the way down from it

 

[scalpel]

I edited my original post with the important bit of information, regarding Olimar's Up-Tilt counter to Wolf's forward smash. I really hope this post helps people out. I just don't want people to feel helpless against a Wolf user. I want to show that there are many possibilities of countering Wolf, and this is one of them.

 

[Fino]

hey gazelle, great strategy.
I read this awhile ago and started using it, and I agree, it works quite nicely.
However, upon my brother deciding to main as wolf (for right now anyways. haha) I learned that wolf's fsmash has another important weakness. After he does it he is completely unable to move for a quick second, but more importantly change direction. Now, how is this useful? Well Olimars roll is almost form fitted to counter wolf's fsmash. The trick is, you don't roll away, but directly into the attack. Not only does the attack completely miss you, but, since he is unable to change direction take this opportunity to punish. I myself recommend a grab since you're in perfect range and its really quick.

~Fino

 

[Ralucard]

or you could simply dodge it and hit him with a jab combo, throw, smash or whatever.
At least I do that >_>

 

[Fino]

or you could simply dodge it and hit him with a jab combo, throw, smash or whatever.
At least I do that >_>

The point is that wolf spams the Fsmash, meaning he goes Fsmash Fsmash Fsmash Fsmash Fsmash until he makes contact, and seeing how this move takes priority over almost all of olimar's better moves it can be difficult.

~Fino

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

bump for justice!

 

[scalpel]

I recently participated in a Super Smash Bros Brawl tournament at my college, and had the opportunity to play against Wolf-users.

I just want to say that Olimar's up-tilt, combined with his DOWN-TILT, is simply amazing against Wolf. Olimar's down-tilt animation goes under Wolf's laser, completely unharmed. It's a nice way for Olimar to approach Wolf. Yes, it sounds very unusual to see the words 'Olimar' and 'approach' in the same sentence, and that's very understandable. A match-up with Wolf is probably the only match-up out of the WHOLE GAME where Olimar BENEFITS from approaching the opponent. However, Olimar must approach Wolf intelligently in order to accomplish anything.

 

[DanGR]

just wonderin, why is your text purple?

 

[Sikarios]

This all sounds good, but how does the Ftilt fit into this scenario, or doesn't it?

 

[scalpel]

just wonderin, why is your text purple?

Why not? It's the color of Olimar's shoes when you select his green costume, and that's my favorite one. And it's not purple - it's MAGENTA!

This all sounds good, but how does the Ftilt fit into this scenario, or doesn't it?

Do you mean Wolf's forward-tilt, or Olimar's?

If you mean Wolf's forward-tilt, there's really nothing special about it. This thread focuses only on countering Wolf's forward-smash, which is troublesome. His forward-tilt should hardly be a problem.

If you mean Olimar's forward-tilt, well I don't find it as useful against Wolf compared to Olimar's up-tilt and down-tilt attacks. You may incorporate Olimar's forward-tilt into your strategy against Wolf, but I personally do not. Do whatever works for you.

 

[cHiCkEN_TeNdErS]

Why not? It's the color of Olimar's shoes when you select his green costume, and that's my favorite one. And it's not purple - it's MAGENTA!

sorry gaz, but its all about black olimar in his golden bling bling suit, throwing bejeweled plantium encrusted pikmin

 

[ElSpaniard]

just tried this out on my friends wolf. He no longer chooses wolf to battle me

 

[Fino]

I can't dtilt under the laser, but maybe I'm just doing it wrong. Rolling works just fine for me though . Especially for those who are so used to doing it that their this in gun animation by the time I roll past them for the shield grab or fsmash. w00t!

~Fino

 

[Dionysus]

getting by wolfs fsmash is nothing compared to fighting metaknights

 

[DanGR]

Usually, whenever I see Wolf approaching me, I just rapidly do Olimar's Up-Tilt about two or three times, and usually the opponent becomes hesitant to approach me. It's great for mind games, and it's a great way to defend yourself against that annoying smash. I hope this helps.

what? who do u play with? lol jk. idk if this really works on ppl(spamming u-tilt), but I can tell u that i'd be the one that grabbed u immediately or short hopped an f-air. it's a good counter yah, i'll give u that, but oli has several other better counters for a wolf that spams f-smash.

I'm trying not to criticize u cuz it's a good way to counter and start combos, but LOL!



maybe i should change my text to black Oo.