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Strange quirks in Dair and Ftilt's knockback

samper

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
69
Location
LA
I've been poking around on a lot of posts and haven't seen anyone mention this yet so I figured I'd bring it up.

Very, very rarely when I use Dair, instead of the usually knock back it does (up and in front of you, unless you cross over them in which case it flings up and behind you, which might be useful for an occasional stage spike I think), it will throw them down onto the ground and they'll kind of slide away then bounce back up. It doesn't seem to matter what percent your target is at, and I think the only times I've ever seen it is when there is a platform nearby and your target was hit just above it, but other than that I have no idea how it happens.

Equally as rare, on the Ftilt instead of simply hitting your opponent twice and throwing them in front of you (the first hit pops them up ever so slightly into the air and the second hit pushes them back), I'll sometimes use it and the first hit will toss them into the ground and then the second hit will throw them away from you. I think the whole 2 times I've seen this has been against an opponent that was at a pretty high percent (about 100 or so) and in the air, but I've never been able to do it on command (and I am sure that it tosses them into the ground because it makes that little shock wave effect that comes up when someone gets slammed into the ground).

So I guess what I'm asking is if anyone else has run across this and if so do you know why this occurs or, more importantly, if Sonic can force it to happen reliably? The best I can think of is maybe there's some weird sweet spot to those attacks that causes that to happen (though I think someone would have found that out by now).

P.S. Sorry to say, but I don't have a video to provide that shows these two things. I know I've seen them both happen on youtube once, I think the Ftilt one was in a match against a Kirby, but other than that I can't provide you all with any video evidence of these things.
And, as always, please tell me if there is something I worded poorly or need to clean up to help you all understand what I'm trying to say.
 

Fat Otaku

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
96
Location
Oregon (West Coast)
Well. I have had a few kills from a Dair spike on the edge of the stage. My aim was accurate, but I did not know how close I was to the edge. I went off, but I hit them back a good deal, did my jump up and homing attacked them off the map. I think a little practice with Dair as a spike on the edge will make it usefull given Sonics insane verticle recovery.
 

TwinkleToes

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,545
Location
MN
I think I know what's happening in both but I can't be sure:

1) If you hit someone with dair while you are close to them they will be sent off at a significantly lower angle than normal. What might be happening is your opponent is getting sent at a low angle but DI'ing into the ground.

2) I assume this is either a weird hit box accident (like with Toon Link's freakish 1 hit kill down smash) or your opponent is consistently DI'ing into the ground as the hit lands. I've never payed too much attention to this one since either way they end up getting pushed back at the end of it if you hit them.
 

samper

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
69
Location
LA
So...you can make Dair hit at a lower angle than normal by hitting early, but you can't make your opponent hit the ground unless they try to DI down? That kind of sucks, I was really hoping Sonic had some kind of hidden spike/meteor smash/whatever those things are called.

I do remember reading something about Luigi's taunt spiking people that were hanging on the ledge, and something about Samus' Utilt doing that as well, think Sonics Dair could do the same? (I could be, and probably am, completely wrong about that bit on Luigi and Samus though, so feel free to correct me)
 

TwinkleToes

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,545
Location
MN
Samper, I'm almost positive that Sonic has no spikes. He has some very unusual attacks that have higher knock back than most people realize due to positioning and sex-kick properties that go unused, but other than that there's not really some huge revelation you're missing out on.
 

R4ZE

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
721
Location
Florida
well sum1 recently said that sonics side-b could be a spike.

If sonic is on the edge but facing the center of the stage... and releases his side-b as the enemiy goes to grab the ledge. He said it spiked. can sum1 test this??
 

memphischains

Smash hhkj'
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
3,953
Location
Boston, MA
I think I know what's happening in both but I can't be sure:

1) If you hit someone with dair while you are close to them they will be sent off at a significantly lower angle than normal. What might be happening is your opponent is getting sent at a low angle but DI'ing into the ground.

2) I assume this is either a weird hit box accident (like with Toon Link's freakish 1 hit kill down smash) or your opponent is consistently DI'ing into the ground as the hit lands. I've never payed too much attention to this one since either way they end up getting pushed back at the end of it if you hit them.
Thats exactly what happening. I have messed around a lot with sonic and toes is right on the dot. hitting a dair ontop of oppenent will get them at that wierd angle, and sometimes sonics utilt wont hit with every kick.

Samper, I'm almost positive that Sonic has no spikes. He has some very unusual attacks that have higher knock back than most people realize due to positioning and sex-kick properties that go unused, but other than that there's not really some huge revelation you're missing out on.
well sum1 recently said that sonics side-b could be a spike.

If sonic is on the edge but facing the center of the stage... and releases his side-b as the enemiy goes to grab the ledge. He said it spiked. can sum1 test this??
It was me, and no one has been able to reenact the moment, like the fair reflect. It could have been just a weird hit, but it also could have been a spike. I hit C.falc, (by accident, which you should note), and he went down at an angle. so who knows?
 
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