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SSB4: A Tale of Two Games

SmashChu

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This is an essay I jotted up and I wanted to share with everyone. Enjoy!
SSB4: A Tale of Two Games

The announcement to make two Smash Brothers games has caused confusion, uncertainty, concern. We really don't know the direction the next game will take and Nintendo has told us very little. All we really do know is that there are two games and the “central axis” of the game is their connectivity. Besides that, Nintendo has left us in the dark. However, after some mulling it over, I think I can shed some light on where the next Smash Brothers game is going.

In this article, I'm going to focus on two topics. First is why are there two games. How did we get to the point of having two games. After that, I will focus on what the two games will be like. You may wonder how I can do this with such little information. Well, that is the wonder of understanding why they exist.

With all that said, here, I present, the answer to the two game conundrum.

Why Are There Two Games?

One word: density.

Sakurai has been good about making his games packed full of lots of stuff. He goes above and beyond what we see in most games in terms of content. In each game has had made, it goes a little farther and these features find their way into other games. The games get larger (at least Smash does) and they take features from each other. As such, you can look at his games as one continuum. Each game adds a little more and takes from the past games in the continuum. What that said, to understand where the next Smash Brothers is going, we have to start from the beginning and move forward. Only from where we started can we know where we are going. So let's go back to the beginning.

Sakurai's Other Games

We'll start with Kirby Super Star. OK, so this isn't the beginning. I'm starting here because it is the most relevant to our discussion. Not much reason to go into Adventure or Dream Land, although Adventure did build up from Dream Land. What was interesting about this game was that it was not one game. It was actually over 6 games in one. There were the main games modes like Spring Breeze and Meta-Knight's Revenge, but there were also smaller sub-games as well. The reason we aren't going back to Adventure is there is no need to. In many ways, this is the content explosion that starts a chain reaction. Each game is stand alone and while it uses the same mechanics, it introduces a new feature and ways to progress though levels. It also posses unique challenges like Meta-Knight's Revenge timer. This will not be the last time we see this. This game is very important because Sakurai likes to make multiple games in one. We'll see this crop up again.

After Kirby, Sakurai made the first two Smash Brothers titles. The first one was a very small project with a small scale. It was never intended to be a huge success, even though it turned out to be one. Super Smash Brothers Melee took the mold that Super Smash Brothers made and blew it up. Melee was one of the first games to take the explosion of content approach (although we were building up towards it). It even had more characters added than the original game had. It also had more stages, classic stages, trophies and new modes. It added quite a lot. But we'll return to this one later.

After this, Sakurai made Kirby's Air Ride. It was the last game he made with HAL Labs. It took a lot from both Melee and Kirby Super Star. In typical Sakurai fashion, it featured three different game modes that used the same core idea. This game introduced the “Challenge,” system. In it, there were 120 achievements for each mode and many would unlock content. The game featured 17 unique Air Ride Machines that each played different and then some. There modes also featured their own unique content as well. It also mimicked Melee by focusing on multiplayer. This game, like Kirby Superstar, did the “multiple games in one,” thing. Once again, this game has 3 games in one. Air Ride, City Trial, and Top Ride. The games built from the central idea of the game's mechanics and put them into different setting. The core was the same. You boost to drift and only the A and control stick does anything. Once again, we see multiple games in one.

Meteos, which Sakurai did with Q Entertainment was also jam packed. This game was a puzzle game similar to Tetris. Players would try to match blocks and launch them out of the screen. It featured 40 different planets that all acted and played differently. Each planet had different block size, gravity and types of blocks that would appear. On top of that, each planet had distinct music, and there were also items. This game also introduced a system where you could used the launched pieces to unlock new planets, music and items. It also featured a unique menu similar to Air Ride and Melee that would be mimicked in Brawl. This game takes a lot from other games, but it also has a lot of content. 40 planets is a lot and each are unique. Also, like Air Ride, it's focus was on multiplayer.

And then we reach Brawl. Brawl was the biggest game Sakurai made up to this point. It added more characters than Melee added, more stages, a whole catalog of music, new features, including online, and a larger adventure mode. It was much bigger than Melee by a long shot. It is, at the date of writing this, was the largest game he made. It also one of the few games on the Wii that used a dual layered disc. This game was not only the biggest Sakurai made, but one of the largest games to come out ever. It's a lofty assertion, but with the amount of stuff added, it's hard to say otherwise. In comparison, while you'd be lucky to see a fighting game add 8 characters, this game added 15. Most games don't have the music library as big as this one had. The adventure mode, with 30 levels and it's own level up system, could have been it's own game (despite what you think about it being good or not).

What is interesting to note is that Melee and Brawl set the stage for games that followed. After Melee, Sakurai's games took a lot of notes from these games. Kirby's Air Ride and Meteos mimicked how the games were made. The games all have a huge emphasis on multiplayer. They only added on to the formula that Melee started, usually adding new features to be seen. For instance, the challenges from Kibry's Air Ride would appear in Brawl. Needless to say, Kid Icarus Uprising took a lot from Brawl.

Kid Icarus: Uprising took Brawl's approach on how the game was structured in terms of it's main game modes It featured a multiplayer and single player that built up from the same fundamentals much like Brawl (and maybe Kirby's Air Ride). Unlike Brawl, they were not large enough to be separate, but there was a lot of content. The game featured 9 weapons classes. In total, there were 108 weapons. That's quite a lot. The single players had 25 levels and a larger range of difficulties (from 0 to 9.0). There was also a large catalog of music. Like Brawl, the game had a larger focus on it's singleplayer component, but the multiplayer was not neglected. It had a fusion element as well as challenges like Kirby's Air Ride. It even used the Meteos style menus.

Between the Smash Brothers games, there was a large explosion of content. The other games he made were not as big, but Smash Brothers can shed some light on that. 64 was a small game in part because it's success was questioned. No one really knew how well it would do. But it ended up being a smash hit, which allowed Sakurai more resources for Smash and his other games too. It's success also influenced how he made games.

As for Smash's content, each game outdid the last. While some will always question the game mechanics, the content expansion from each game has gotten bigger and bigger. 64 only had 12 characters and 9 stages. It's single player was just Classic, the Target Test and Board the Platforms. Melee took it to the next level. It added 13 characters and put the stages count in the upper 20s. It added Adventure and All-Stars (the latter being based off of Kirby Superstar). It added more and better quality music. It added trophies and new items. While Melee was hard to top, Brawl did it. It added a catalog of music, with each stage having multiple tunes. It added 10 classic stages. It added 15 new characters vs Melee's 13. It added online. And it added the Subspace Emissary.

So it seems strange. Brawl has set the bar pretty high. How can one game top what Brawl added? Maybe one wont. Staring to catch on? Don't worry, I'm not done driving the point home; I have more to say. One last thing to leave on. Each Smash Brothers title sets the stage for the next games Sakurai makes, and every other title has features and ideas that find their way into Smash or other games.
 

SmashChu

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Part 2

Namco Bandai

When everyone heard the news that Namco was involved in the next Smash, the first thing everyone talked about were Namco characters being in Smash. Would it be Jin? Pac-Man? Lloyd? It think that's the wrong thing to think about. Only one place I have seen on the internet didn’t talk about that. Their thoughts were: “Why?' So let's roll with that.

Up until now, we have talked about how Sakurai has made his games and how they are intertwined. One important part about Brawl was that Sakurai had help. Another company called Game Arts. They helped with the development of Brawl. We are not sure what their role was with the game, but we know he did not go it alone. Similarly to SSB4, the team was made up of Game Arts, Sakurai, and some new hires. This is who made Brawl.

Fast forward to today and Sakurai is working on SSB4. This time, the staff is himself, those who made Kid Icarus: Uprising, and new hires. But they can't do it themselves, can they? One question that might be raised is “Why not Game Arts?” As I said before, the games get larger and larger. Brawl was the first title with outside help. Now SSB4 is doing it with Namco. What makes Namco important is they are not a small studio. They are a large company with senior game developers, many who have worked on fighting games before. Game Arts was about getting good staff (and they did care about Smash. Sakurai mentioned they wore Gamecube controls down with playing Melee). Now, Nintendo is trying to get the best staff.

Masaya Kobayashi, who is directing this game alongside Sakurai, mentioned the kind of people working on the game. His words are here:

In order to make Mr. Sakurai proud, we will take on this project with NAMCO BANDAI's best staff! Yo****o Higuchi, the producer and the director of the "Tales" series, Tetsuya Akatsuka, producer and director of "Mobile Suit Gundam: Extreme Vs.," the art director/sound director of the "SoulCalibur" series, the main development team staff from the "TEKKEN" series…and that's just for starters. All the top creators from NAMCO BANDAI are gathered here to create a never-before-seen dream team for this project. We will fully utilize our experience and knowledge in action/fighting game development, technical capability, and organizational strength, and we hereby promise you that we will develop the best and most powerful "Super Smash Bros." title ever! Don't miss it!

He mentions Namco's best, and he is right. Besides the number of head developers on the team, there is the main development staff of the Tekken series. To get a team like that is no small feat. It means that they will try to top Brawl. The reason Namco is on board is because, as Smash is scaling, so does the manpower. They can't use someone like Game Arts. They need better people. Thus, Namco.

Sakurai Made Two Games At Once Before

Hard to believe huh? Well, it's true. Sakurai has done this before. In fact, it was Brawl. Brawl's Adventure Mode is what I mean. I'll let the big guy himself explain.

From Brawl's Iwata Ask:

Sakurai: Right. Blessed with such an opportunity, I tried to think of ways we could enable players to more thoroughly enjoy such a rare all-star lineup and, in the end, I pulled a power play. To put it simply, the Adventure Mode is like a stand-alone title offered in the same package. In terms of development work as well, it was like making two distinct games.

Just like he said, developing the Subspace Emissary was like making two games. In someways, he is right. The games were done differently with the Adventure mode having different balance. Interestingly, with the game being dual layered, the Subspace Emissary is on a different side than the other modes and content. Not to mention, it was rather large with pre rendered cutscenes and 30 levels (plus the Great Maze). Sakurai and Iwata also mention this:

Iwata: So, what it shares with the multiplayer mode are the character data and programming for basic movements. Everything else is different, right?

Sakurai: Right. We had to change the basic game systems for the two modes. Also, even though character movements are pretty much the same, we made adjustments to things like the speed at which characters run for the Adventure Mode.


I want to step back a bit. Remember how I mentioned that Kirby Superstar was multiple games in one and how Sakurai likes to do that. Well, here we have Sakurai saying they almost made two separate games. In some ways, Brawl was not unusual because Sakurai has done it before on a smaller scale. Brawl was almost two games in one. It had the normal Smash and the adventure mode which even got it's own name. The difference this time is that the two games will literally be two games.

Putting It All Together

I have written a lot here. So let's put it all together to get the big picture on just what the next game(s) is.

1)The games Sakurai make are big on content. The Super Smash Brothers games in particular are big and dwarf many games that come out today.

2)Namco Bandai is helping to make this game. They have a lot of staff and are putting a lot of senior developers on the project (as well as the main Tekken team)

3)Sakurai already made two games in one with the Subspace Emissary.

So put it all together? Basically, Smash has outgrown it shell and, as a content monster, has become two games instead of one. The breaking point is the Adventure mode and the rest of the game. Those will be separated (much like the Subspace Emissary was). Namco Bandai is involved for the need of staffing. Having a big company with lots of development staff on board is going to help. As you can see, density is what is splitting up the games into two separate games.

With us now knowing the game's direction, it's time to think about what will it be.
 

SmashChu

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Part 3

What Will The Games Be Like?

First, the reason the games are being split is because he next one will be big enough to justify it. The normal Smash game will be bigger and the Adventure mode will be bigger as well. Thus, the games will be stand alone much like the Subspace Emissary could be alone. When the games will come out, we will have the Wii U game, “Super Smash Brothers X” and the 3DS game will be “Super Smash Brothers X: The Adventure Mode title.” The games will expand, once again, on what Brawl did. Both modes will grow. However, I think I need to touch on another point. Connectivity.

For what the games will be, the first thing people focus on is “connectivity.” This is because that is what Sakurai and Iwata have focused on. But thinking the game is about “connectivity,” is only half the sorry. It is a misinterpretation. We know that the game is being one game split in two, connectivity is not the focus but the two games is the focus. Why is connectivity brought up to begin with then? The connectivity is the central axis. It's the glue that holds the two games as one. The connectivity is what brings these games back to the center; the convergence point. In other words, the idea of this game is not connectivity and that creates two games. Its the need for two games, and the connectivity makes them one again. To understand more, let's look at Kid Icarus Uprising.

Kid Icarus has it's single player and multiplayer mode as well as the other stuff. The two modes are interrelated and complement each other. That is what SSB4 will move towards. What is interesting about Kid Icarus Uprising is that a player can play one mode and it will help them in another. Say you just want to play the multiplayer. That's fine. You take the starting weapon and go online to fight everyone. As you play, the game gives you powers and weapons. You keep getting them and getting them until you have an armory at your disposal. But now you want to play the single player. In other games, you'd have to earn the stuff for that mode. But now, you get stuff from multiplayer. So now you take your weaponry and take on the single player with greater ease. The same holds true in reverse. You play single player and get new weapons and powers and bring them into the multiplayer.

Now let's contrast this to Brawl and the Subspace Emissary. These modes are not interrelated. At the most, playing single player gives you characters and collectables and multiplayer gives you collectables and characters. But, if you play 450 rounds of multiplayer and get all the characters, well, you can't use them in single player. While single player gives you characters, it doesn't help your progress online. It gives you no benefit besides unlocking the characters. The two mode are more two different games than what SSB4 will be.

There is no way to confirm this. What I will say next is based on what Kid Icarus Uprising has done, what I mentioned before on why the games are split and just Smash in general.

Sakurai and Iwata have given us some clues on the 3DS game and how some elements might work. Sakurai has mentioned that the handheld would allow for a more individualized experience. They also mentioned the prospect of powering up characters like an RPG. With what he have mentioned before, it makes sense that this game would be the Adventure mode. In the Subspace Emissary, you could power up characters via stickers. The new game will likely adopt that and improve upon it. It may not be strikers again, but the same concept will hold true. At the very least, the stickers will be expanded and changed. With that in mind, the Wii U one would be normal smash. It would have the usual game modes like Multiplayer, Classic and All-Stars.

But where is the connectivity. Simple. Like Kid Icarus, playing one modes helps you in the other. So playing the 3DS game will make the Wii U one easier and vise verse. But how? First, unlocking characters is a big part of the game. If you have one version, it may let you unlock characters in the other. Playing the Wii U one will let you link up and let you unlock the characters for the 3DS one. But how else will you connect? Collectables. In the Wii U version, you will be able to get collectables like stickers. With those, you can send them back to the 3DS version and use them (they will have a use in both). Then, you can use characters from the 3DS version on the Wii U to help beat the other modes.

This is probably not exactly what will happen, but to summarize, the idea will be that you can use on game to help in the other. At the least, you will be able to customize and transfer characters. At the most, both the Wii U and the 3DS game will both have customization and you can transfer between them. I didn't mention this, but the Adventure will likely be much more open. It will allow you to pick a character and than go forth, rather than Brawl where levels have set characters. You'll have some way to change characters stats as well as a second powering up thing. Perhaps powers similar to Kid icarus that you can activate during battle. Due note, that, in typical Sakurai fansion, you can play the games alone. Much like Kid Icarus, you can play multiplayer and never touch the single player. You can play the 3DS game without touching the Wii U one. Also, you will be able to play with out customization, but you will have to rely on reflexes alone. In the same way, you can play Kid Icarus with the starting weapon, but it's harder.

Summary and Other Thoughts

I talked a lot the core ideas, but let me summarize and bring some new ideas as well.

First, like I said before, the game will have more customization. It will likely have two ways you can do it. One will be something like the stickers, and the other will be something like powers. The character carries the sticker set up and you an chose from pre-made or create a power set up. From there, you can take on the modes and challenges. The games will either have you be able able to buff characters in the 3DS version only or in both games. Either way, you'll be able to move characters and items between the games.

The stickers themselves will be different. They may not even be stickers. Brawl had the stickers have very set attributes. They either buff a type of attack, defended against a type, or “Other.” SSB4 will not do that. It may take some of the offensive types of stickers, but it will add things like stickers that effect you movements, increase the items dropped, add effects to your attacks and so one. They will have a little more. The powers, if they are in, will be similar to Kid Icarus. You can press a button of touch them on the touch screen and use them. They can be invisibility, super speed, super armor, ect. Either way, the items that make you stronger will be in game collectables. There will also be a reason to trade.

The 3DS game will feature some other aspects unique to it. You will be able to add other players, either locally or online and bring their character into the fray. They will be able to assist you with their strong character. They can still use the 3DS to link to the Wii U and bring their character in for that game. There will also be some use of street pass and spot pass. Likely for power up items.

Lastly, I didn't mention release dates. The games may either release at the same time or different times. Both are feasible. Nintendo will try to release them close to each other, but it may not happen. The roster will be the same, but separate release may have characters be added to the later game. In other words, an expansion pack. It's unlikely, but possible. Either way, Nintendo will try to get the games close to launch. And again, the games will be named “Super Smsh Brother X” and “Super Smash Brother X: The Adventure Mode title.”

Conclusion

So I talked about a lot, but in the end, I don't think I did. I think I only scratched the surface of what the games will actually be. At this moment, I only have idea. All of these could be wrong even. We wont know everything until the game is in our hands. Still, I think the making of two games means the next Smash will be huge and bigger than what we've seen yet. Like Masaya Kobayashi said.

“....we will develop the best and most powerful "Super Smash Bros." title ever! “
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Hope you all enjoyed it Thanks to the guys in the social group for your support!
 

DakotaBonez

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I had theorized that the Adventure mode might end up being dropped off onto the 3DS.
But then I wondered, " who would JUST want to play the adventure mode?" Surely he realizes that.
But maybe they are really gonna make the adventure mode an all out adventure.
With towns and shops where you can by Music, Stickers, Trophies and such for transfer.
And being able to have nintendo characters join your party in an RPG like experience would be enough to make it sell.
 

SmashChu

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I had theorized that the Adventure mode might end up being dropped off onto the 3DS.
But then I wondered who would JUST want to play the adventure mode. Surely he realizes that.
But maybe they are really gonna make the adventure mode an all out adventure.
With towns and shops where you can by Music, Stickers, Trophies and such for transfer.
My think is that they would make the mode larger and better (mostly looking at some of the flaws of the SSE). But yeah, more people are going to want the main Smash.

I was hoping more people would want to talk about this. Guess not.
 

finalark

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I was hoping more people would want to talk about this. Guess not.
Well, most people find a wall of text intimidating.

But I'm going to assume that the topic here is the difference between Smash 4 and Smash 3DS. In that case, I'm going to assume that Smash 3DS will essentially just be a condensed version of Smash 4 and if you own both maybe you get special trophies or something.
 

DakotaBonez

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Well Imagine a nintendo RPG.
Spanning across the various realms of nintendo and meeting every obscure character they've ever made.
You start off with like Mario or Link and meet others along the way to help you in you're travels. It plays like a smash bros fighter except maybe the attacks level up.
There could even possibly be online Battles.
Mainly though unlocking new towns with new content that can be applied in SSB4, and vice-versa where you unlock characters or Stickers or SOMETHING that can aid in the SSB 3DS game.
Man I don't think I wanna go out and buy a 3DS AND a WII U!
Sadly that's exactly what I did when I bought an extremely cheap overused Gamecube when I discovered melee years after it had been released.
Then I bought a Brand friggin new Wii the day Brawl came out. Point is,
I'll throw all my money away for smash.

Where's the article where Iwata or Sakurai mentioned leveling up or RPG like elements in the next Smash Bros 3DS?
 

finalark

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Well Imagine a nintendo RPG.
Spanning across the various realms of nintendo and meeting every obscure character they've ever made.
You start off with like Mario or Link and meet others along the way to help you in you're travels. It plays like a smash bros fighter except maybe the attacks level up.
I'd imagine It'd be a Metroidvania akin to, well, Metroid or Castlevania. Rather than a traditional JRPG.

There could even possibly be online Battles.
Mainly though unlocking new towns with new content that can be applied in SSB4, and vice-versa where you unlock characters or Stickers or SOMETHING that can aid in the SSB 3DS game.
Not sure how that'd roll with competitive players. Plus putting a leveling system in a fighting game is practically screaming **** BALANCE.

On the offhand that might just be me hating how time consuming competitive Pokemon was when I went down that rabbit hole. I'd rather just have to unlock everything on one disk then just play the game to get better.

Where's the article where Iwata or Sakurai mentioned leveling up or RPG like elements in the next Smash Bros 3DS?
Yes, they said that they'd consider a leveling system in Smash 3DS that could be transferred to Wii U. But I think that will be a separate mode from standard play.

And I'd imagine it would just be like stickers in SSE.
 

Holder of the Heel

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I am hoping SSB4 on the 3DS will be much like Project X Zone. It would have a solo story experience like PXZ, a large cast of characters like PXZ, and have a RPG focus AND fighting elements like in PXZ. The possibility of items and collectibles to be transferred over is basically busting at the seams of possibilities with that. All of that seems to be even better knowing that PXZ is being made by Bandai Namco.

I read all three posts, it was surprisingly easy to read. While nothing new was said really with what we have talked about before, but glad to know we think alike and to have it all put together in one spot that is easy to go through. Good job.
 

Frostwraith

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This was well written and has a very good point. I agree entirely that the fact that Sakurai hired a big company like Namco Bandai is because he wants to make something big. And yes, I can see him topping Brawl. I truly think that Brawl will be little compared to whatever he is going to make for SSB4.
 

DakotaBonez

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I enjoy leveling up in Solo games but using it in multiplayer is never too fun as one will obviously be significantly stronger. Which is why it makes sense to seperate the Adventure mode and the Versus mode.

I'm seriously hyped to see the next Adventure mode.
Melee's lasted about 10 minutes. Introduced many fun NPC's to stomp. Brawl's was 8 hours and allowed you to replay your favorite parts. Added 8 new bosses to go with the Master Hand and Crazy Hand. a Ton of original NPC's to stomp.

This next adventure mode will be Massive.

What the heck is this Project X-zone? Is it really so similar?
Gotta go research.
 

volbound1700

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Well Sakurai tend to indicate in his comments that Brawl was not the full project he had hoped for when he sat down to make it. However, I am not sure about the system split because as mentioned before, most people will go for the Smash on Wii U and not get the Adventure mode. I feel like the 3DS version will just be a mini version of the game while the Wii U version will have the full content.
 

Johnknight1

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I think the Smash WiiU's story mode will be smaller, with a bit more focus on multiplayer (possibly more stages?). There is also a chance it could get more extensive versions of stadium modes, All-Star/Classic mode, and Event Matches, as well as probably more online features.
I'd imagine It'd be a Metroidvania akin to, well, Metroid or Castlevania. Rather than a traditional JRPG.
I agree. I think it will also have obvious elements of 2D Mario, Kirby, Donkey Kong (Country), and maybe even Zelda II implemented for the standard gameplay of the story mode. However, I have no idea what will be done with bosses. Regardless, there needs to be a change in how most boss fights go.
 

Frostwraith

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I think the Smash WiiU's story mode will be smaller, with a bit more focus on multiplayer (possibly more stages?). There is also a chance it could get more extensive versions of stadium modes, All-Star/Classic mode, and Event Matches, as well as probably more online features.

I agree. I think it will also have obvious elements of 2D Mario, Kirby, Donkey Kong (Country), and maybe even Zelda II implemented for the standard gameplay of the story mode. However, I have no idea what will be done with bosses. Regardless, there needs to be a change in how most boss fights go.
I can see this happening, obviously. Most Nintendo franchises had 2D games (Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Ice Climber...) they could incorporate elements of all these games, since Smash Bros. plays like a 2D game.

They could focus on more thematic levels, based on Nintendo locations, instead of making things too generic, like SSE did.

We could have a world system like the Mario games, with a world map to navigate and then we are transported to a Metroidvania style stage with puzzles like Zelda, enemies to defeat, treasures to find... throw some RPG elements to the mix, and it could be a unique game experience.

I remember that in Wario Land 3, my first Game Boy game, every stage had 4 treasures (in this case, level ends), and sometimes, depending on which exit you took, you would unlock different levels. They could make something like this as well. Super Mario World, New Super Mario Bros. are also some games to have levels with multiple ends.
 

finalark

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I agree. I think it will also have obvious elements of 2D Mario, Kirby, Donkey Kong (Country), and maybe even Zelda II implemented for the standard gameplay of the story mode. However, I have no idea what will be done with bosses. Regardless, there needs to be a change in how most boss fights go.
The bosses could just be normal characters but made hard to launch and they deal more damage.
 

Johnknight1

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I can see this happening, obviously. Most Nintendo franchises had 2D games (Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, Kirby, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Ice Climber...) they could incorporate elements of all these games, since Smash Bros. plays like a 2D game.

They could focus on more thematic levels, based on Nintendo locations, instead of making things too generic, like SSE did.
Precisely my dear Watson. Going off what you later said, we could have puzzle elements of DKC (including the awesome hidden areas/secrets), Zelda (bomb puzzles?), and Metroid (weapon upgrades?), and platformer elements of Sonic (fast areas?), Mario, and Kirby. Heck, we could even have some of the stealth elements of Metal Gear! :laugh:
The bosses could just be normal characters but made hard to launch and they deal more damage.
That's basically what they were in Brawl. I was talking about more diversity, ie: a DKC boss playing like a DKC boss, a Super Mario boss playing like a Super Mario boss, etc.
 

Frostwraith

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Well, if Bowser or Ganondorf appear as bosses, then they could be like Brawl: a normal Smash Bros. match with the foe having more resistance to knockback and deal more damage than usual.

But they could put bosses with puzzling elements, like Zelda, by having a more specific way to attack instead of just using moves, or having the classic weak point to deal massive damage. Or maybe the boss could only be hit by certain items? For example, a boss that needed to be hit by Bob-ombs to remove a hard shell and only then it would be possible to attack straight on.

As for the stages, they could be thematic for each game world: a stage set in the Mushroom Kingdom would have ? blocks with items and be structured like a Mario game (complete with the flagpole at the end), a stage set in Zebes or another Metroid setting to have emphasis on exploration (Metroidvania style), stages based on Zelda could have puzzles.

They could even recreate exact stages from previous games (like they did with Mushroomy Kingdom in Brawl). Imagine exploring the exact same Planet Zebes from Metroid and Super Metroid with the gameplay of Smash, having the likes of Kraid and Ridley as bosses. Or maybe a recreated Underworld stage from Kid Icarus? Maybe in order to recreate a Star Fox level, they could have the entire level on top of a ship and keep spawning enemies and obstacles, to recreate the rail shooter type of gameplay.

The examples could go on forever... there's much potential for a good Adventure Mode, with actual Nintendo worlds.
 

DakotaBonez

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Bosses in Smash Bros: Spam Jump Backflip

Someone in a previous post mentioned using items on bosses.
It would be cool to see a boss where you had to expose their weak spot with a bob-omb before you go in and spam your backflips.

Anyway back to the two games...
Would anyone be terribly sad if a Smash Bros for the 3DS just never came out?
 

Johnknight1

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@ Frostwraith
Exactly. Imagining fighting Mario bosses Super Mario style in a believable Super Mario Bros level in Smash Bros. as Sonic, Link, and Bowser is enough to make any fanboy drool. All Sakurai and co. has to do is go to those series for inspiration, translate what makes those series and games "special," and put Smash's blueprint on it. Then, we will have an incredible re-imagined smash bros. story mode... at least in terms of levels.

The only thing I could add is maybe take a cue from other super crossovers, whether other fighting games, or stories/story arcs like "Marvel's The Avengers" or "DC's Justice League" for how to crossover all these great series. Find a way to give bits and pieces of each character's back story to make us identify them as actually them (and identify with them) in order to make us want to see what happens to them. Do that with all the ("good guy") characters, and we could be in for an incredible story mode ride!
 

SmashChu

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Well, most people find a wall of text intimidating.

But I'm going to assume that the topic here is the difference between Smash 4 and Smash 3DS. In that case, I'm going to assume that Smash 3DS will essentially just be a condensed version of Smash 4 and if you own both maybe you get special trophies or something.
The 3DS games being smaller Smash doesn't make too much sense. The games are being made at the same time and being released around the same time (likely). Why would they make a big Smash and a little one? Be no point to the smaller Smash. Especially if they are almost the same game. One being the Adventure mode makes more sense.

This was well written and has a very good point. I agree entirely that the fact that Sakurai hired a big company like Namco Bandai is because he wants to make something big. And yes, I can see him topping Brawl. I truly think that Brawl will be little compared to whatever he is going to make for SSB4.
Thanks, and I'm glad you agree. Sakurai always pleases.
 
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